The sad thing for me is many overlook another growing area of holocaust denial and anti semitism....but because of a certain R word used so often it's lost a lot of it's bite that area is largly excused and I find that massively offensive and a huge reason why I think Political correctness is a bad thing.
General / Off-Topic According to some people, the holocaust didn't happen.
- Thread starter glynie
- Start date
Well I watched it, really dunno what to say.
Made me feel a sick. Most horrible stuff I've ever seen.
Last edited by a moderator:
Dam! Really wanted to rep you for that, but it wont let me
I did it for you. +1.
Are you seroiously comparing the Palestine issue with the mass murder of Jewish people? You DO know that mass killing is worse? Last time I checked there's no Israeli run death camps full of Palestinians...sheesh.
Just to offset some posts here.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Conference_to_Review_the_Global_Vision_of_the_Holocaust
- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -
Yes "thought" crimes are pathetic, try talking to people convicted of "blasphemy" is many countries around the world. Personally I do NOT think Muhammed was the greatest human who ever lived.....who here thinks I could get away with saying that in certain countries and keep not just my liberty but my life? "thought" crimes indeed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Conference_to_Review_the_Global_Vision_of_the_Holocaust
- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -
Yes "thought" crimes are pathetic, try talking to people convicted of "blasphemy" is many countries around the world. Personally I do NOT think Muhammed was the greatest human who ever lived.....who here thinks I could get away with saying that in certain countries and keep not just my liberty but my life? "thought" crimes indeed.
You need to read my post again...
Last edited:
The parallels between the ghettos of Warsaw and Palestine are frightening; more so, because the Jewish state, dose not see, or recognise it.
Yes Arry
you read my post and understood it [up] or has Israel learned the lesson well but improved on it?
Last edited:
Indeed, we're allowed to challenge beliefs and facts in most cases - even where they can cause great offence.
But not in this instance. An adequate comparison of how unacceptable the law is.
Forced belief is a very dangerous tool that is used tirelessly in propaganda and hate campaigns in the media by governments around the world.
All we are doing is providing a challenge to the witless, the ignorant, the paranoid and the delusional and fuelling the spread of anti-Semitic hate speech by giving them ammunition that can sway empty or impressionable minds.
To quote from the article you linked above:
David Duke gave a speech in which he said: "In Europe you can freely question, ridicule and deny Jesus Christ. The same is true for the prophet Muhammad, and nothing will happen to you. But offer a single question of the smallest part of the Holocaust and you face prison."
This should be a poster sentence for how to convince someone you are telling the truth by providing absolutely no facts. What is worrying is that this works and that this ridiculous law allows it to happen.
This is where branding others with our own assumption comes in to play. We should hope that the Israelis have not learnt from the jackboots and are employing improved tactics; but we can hope, all we like. We do know that they are using 'history' to attempt the justify their actions and intentions. At the same time, we cannot, or should not, suppose or surmise, that they wish to eliminate the Palestine state.
Last edited:
To my mind a country (or state) needs to do three things to allow them to progress (OK, there are a lot more, but I believe that my three things are important).
1, Remember (but do not dwell on) the past history,
2, Build on the present,
3, Plan for the future.
There are (as far as I can tell) some important people in Israel who have become locked onto item 1, and are dwelling on the past history. This is to the point where they seem to think only they suffered the horrors of the Holocaust, and only they can make sure it does not happen again by ramming it down everybody else's throats. This may be causing others to turn off whenever they bring up the Holocaust (and I wonder how many young Israelis are amongst those doing this?), to the point where Israel may be driving their allies away. Russia had far more people killed at the hands of the National Socialism leadership (the filter system took out the shortened name) (numerically, but maybe not proportionally), and while the Russians do remember what happened (and are also, in their own way, making sure it could not happen again), they do not hark on about it, but are getting on with life.
To any who have used that link to "Night Will Fall", I thank you for watching it, but I do not apologise for any pain it caused. That was caused by those who perpetrated the Holocaust. When I watched it I was made very aware of why the Allies had to fight the Second World War.
If anybody is offended by my opinions in this post, I apologise. However, I do stand by them.
1, Remember (but do not dwell on) the past history,
2, Build on the present,
3, Plan for the future.
There are (as far as I can tell) some important people in Israel who have become locked onto item 1, and are dwelling on the past history. This is to the point where they seem to think only they suffered the horrors of the Holocaust, and only they can make sure it does not happen again by ramming it down everybody else's throats. This may be causing others to turn off whenever they bring up the Holocaust (and I wonder how many young Israelis are amongst those doing this?), to the point where Israel may be driving their allies away. Russia had far more people killed at the hands of the National Socialism leadership (the filter system took out the shortened name) (numerically, but maybe not proportionally), and while the Russians do remember what happened (and are also, in their own way, making sure it could not happen again), they do not hark on about it, but are getting on with life.
To any who have used that link to "Night Will Fall", I thank you for watching it, but I do not apologise for any pain it caused. That was caused by those who perpetrated the Holocaust. When I watched it I was made very aware of why the Allies had to fight the Second World War.
If anybody is offended by my opinions in this post, I apologise. However, I do stand by them.
Last edited:
There is no Palestinian state just land and Israel has taken and continues to take much of it
Excellent point.
Though I am fairly certain that quoting David Duke, while not actually banned, is a definite indicator of a tendency to denier-ism. Sort of den-ish perhaps.
Just saying. [haha]
Err... True, but we can live in hope, that it will be unanimously recognised.
Denialism. I think it would sound better as denia-schism.
True. But for a suggestion rather than outright denialism, den-ish-ish does have a certain consistency about it. Even perhaps, the consistency of warm beer with custard.
I'm sorry, but its really not something to joke over imo.
Minonian
Banned
What i think? At first, in my home the denial of communist OR nacionalist crimes are both counts as crime, so as the use of any of the above mentioned "Ism" means symobols, like red star Third Reich eagle or national socialist swastika.
And no, i don't think it's an orwellian tough crime approach.
My reason?;
How you can make a crime like this forgotten, how you can be make repeatable? for comparsion see the pirates arguments. that's a perfect example, a good analog. Thanks to god i already delivered the cure before we had this conversation! Otherwise? Well, i rather not think about it what can be done with this? In the other hand, the eu racists nacionalists and anti Eu movements are very well aware of this method, and used intentionally for about? 10 years or so?
First, convice the others it was not so bad. (denial of numbers.)
at the same time start blame the victims.
Second, convince the others there was no death camps at all! In the matter of fact they are nothing more than camps.
at the same time try to make out immoral criminals for the victims. (see pi ratz reasoning again as analoge)
Third, For now we basically convinced the others that we are not the criminals its time to start convince everybody we are the good guys, the heroes!
In the meantime make the victims more and more looks like a criminal. (again (pi ratz reasoning about this)
fourth; do i need anything to say about it? ok...
Now for the stupid, the gullible we looks like pretty much as heroes.
Its time to turn the public against the victims, and the same time as the holocaust memories and seriousness faded away its time to start talks like this; there was no holocaust but might be we need to do one. and because everybody who stands with the jevs are criminal too... Well... Guess what?
Fifth...
Oblivious isn't it?
So, in short; I don't think to punish holocaust denial is a sin, or orwellian overdoing. In the matter of fact it is, a necessary step to make sure we never forget what happen so it can't be repeated, its a necessary step to make sure never became acceptable, and thus repeatable. Basically it's a failsafe measure just like the 15s menu logout. A quarantine cordon its goal to prevent the spread the "sickness", in case if the vaccination fails, or the strain is just too strong.
Back to the piracy and with this i want to put the final seal on a very long story of mine.
I have no problems with in game piracy as far the pirates are playing a role, and aware of their own intentions, because as i said? this is a game, but as also said previously? I'm not going to like it, but i can live with it unless the bad guy is some sort of delusional moron, who is totally convinced about his rightfulness. About this kind of idiots? I think their place is not in a gamer community, and because we talking about persons whom because of self conviction allow their game approach to leak out Real life? They shod be watched! Carefully. and because sometimes this kind of leaks between reality and fantasy can became a serious issue, true mental case? Just like we can see in conspiration theorists, and his ilks? Well...
Mental ward.
Edit;
About the self convictions like the self righeous peoples have?
They are bullets, fired from a rifle inside of you, and flying around everybody else ears. They are a sign of an ongoing battle within you. Between your heart and mind, the angel and devil sitting on your shoulder. The wery fact of his existence means you are need to convince yourself. To do the right and wrong thing.
Just stop it! You don't need reasons to do the right thing or what's really necessary. Like to kill, so you can eat. and no reason are good enough to do the wrong thing.
A man who in peace with him / her self are don't need any of this. He don't feel it's necessary to explain and convince himself, or others. And sure as hell you can't convince him and make him belive the black is withe and the white is black.
Like a gamer who taken the role of a pirate.
Unless you aware of their existence and know what you are doing and that's it.
And no, i don't think it's an orwellian tough crime approach.
My reason?;
At first what basically going to do there is following the same principles as my arguments about piracy. In the matter of fact how the pirates arguing about the right for piracy, and calling anyone a cheater and criminal, a coward, is the same as racists arguing against holocaust. Same reasoning method, same principles same goals. if someone followed me in this threads than he can have a picture about what i'm thinking. And sorry if im not beign the clearest or if someone does not understand what im trying to say. keep in mind, my mother language is not english, and sometimes im still struggling with it. So if you don't understand something please ask.
How you can make a crime like this forgotten, how you can be make repeatable? for comparsion see the pirates arguments. that's a perfect example, a good analog. Thanks to god i already delivered the cure before we had this conversation! Otherwise? Well, i rather not think about it what can be done with this? In the other hand, the eu racists nacionalists and anti Eu movements are very well aware of this method, and used intentionally for about?
10 years or so?First, convice the others it was not so bad. (denial of numbers.)
at the same time start blame the victims.
Second, convince the others there was no death camps at all! In the matter of fact they are nothing more than camps.
at the same time try to make out immoral criminals for the victims. (see pi ratz reasoning again as analoge)
Third, For now we basically convinced the others that we are not the criminals its time to start convince everybody we are the good guys, the heroes!
In the meantime make the victims more and more looks like a criminal. (again (pi ratz reasoning about this)
fourth; do i need anything to say about it? ok...
Now for the stupid, the gullible we looks like pretty much as heroes.
Its time to turn the public against the victims, and the same time as the holocaust memories and seriousness faded away its time to start talks like this; there was no holocaust but might be we need to do one. and because everybody who stands with the jevs are criminal too... Well... Guess what?
Fifth...
Oblivious isn't it?
So, in short; I don't think to punish holocaust denial is a sin, or orwellian overdoing. In the matter of fact it is, a necessary step to make sure we never forget what happen so it can't be repeated, its a necessary step to make sure never became acceptable, and thus repeatable. Basically it's a failsafe measure just like the 15s menu logout. A quarantine cordon its goal to prevent the spread the "sickness", in case if the vaccination fails, or the strain is just too strong.
Back to the piracy and with this i want to put the final seal on a very long story of mine.
I have no problems with in game piracy as far the pirates are playing a role, and aware of their own intentions, because as i said? this is a game, but as also said previously? I'm not going to like it, but i can live with it unless the bad guy is some sort of delusional moron, who is totally convinced about his rightfulness. About this kind of idiots? I think their place is not in a gamer community, and because we talking about persons whom because of self conviction allow their game approach to leak out Real life? They shod be watched! Carefully. and because sometimes this kind of leaks between reality and fantasy can became a serious issue, true mental case? Just like we can see in conspiration theorists, and his ilks? Well...
Mental ward.
Edit;
About the self convictions like the self righeous peoples have?
They are bullets, fired from a rifle inside of you, and flying around everybody else ears. They are a sign of an ongoing battle within you. Between your heart and mind, the angel and devil sitting on your shoulder. The wery fact of his existence means you are need to convince yourself. To do the right and wrong thing.
Just stop it! You don't need reasons to do the right thing or what's really necessary. Like to kill, so you can eat. and no reason are good enough to do the wrong thing.
A man who in peace with him / her self are don't need any of this. He don't feel it's necessary to explain and convince himself, or others. And sure as hell you can't convince him and make him belive the black is withe and the white is black.
Like a gamer who taken the role of a pirate.
Unless you aware of their existence and know what you are doing and that's it.
Last edited: