Can we all Cheer up please?

[AuraBeard]

Forums are always exceedingly dank because satisfied players don't post, but that doesn't make the whiners wrong it all depends if they have a point or not. Many of the people that are regular whiners here do so for two reasons.

Nothing really changes and they genuinely care.

I don't think thats a bad thing, the players that really care are the ones that support the game the longest.

You understand

 

[Derath]

Are you a troll? You've been going around threads posting intensely negative statements with no back up and ignoring any response that refutes your claim so I'm not even going to bother this time

He's not trolling about that, the most well known/documented systems have realistic characteristics but we earthlings don't even have realistic characteristics for even 1% of the galaxy, and that's in the science community in general not talking about elite.

I'd be genuinely shocked if over 1000 systems had hand picked data, i'd imagine a couple of hundred tops.

Edit: I mean come on they are still debating at the moment if they've found a planet past pluto in our own solar system but you think they mapped out 4 billion systems?

edit2: and in this circumstance considering the actual factors involved it would be on the people who believe it was a piece for piece recreation to provide proof not the other way around, its like somebody declaring they have discovered the secret to immortality and everybody accepting it and telling the world at large to prove he/she wasn't telling the truth lol

 

[Jex =TE=]

I get the rest, but is it?

Made up, but along lines that match observation and experiments so not unreasonable - and there's huge numbers of real world objects to visit

All the planets are made up, where's the dark matter, asteroids, comets, even the stars and nebula are guess work too apparently. So they say it's a "replica" of our galaxy but it's nothing of the sort. Do you think if they just jiggled the stars around a little but kept the spiral shape any would notice or care?

 

[Maxmilian Czhilli]

Forums are always exceedingly dank because satisfied players don't post...

I'm a satisfied player and certainly rarely post in these kind of threads.

I have 330 hours in game, 55m credits in the bank and am pootling about doing missions in a Hauler. I'm like to play slow, but can imagine things must be frustrating for power gamers who always want more. Was going to write some more but I finished my tea so must get back to the cockpit and deliver this sensitive data.

 

[Jex =TE=]

Actually there's a huge number of them - everyone wanting to find amazing things themselves all the time or saying there's nothing to do when they've barely been on a single explore and they don't even know about the other plots and stories to investigate. It's there, so their complaint about content is not lack of it but that it's not turning up at their door

There are other complaints too, but this is the majority.

Nonsense lol. That's what you're choosing to see? The majority of complaints are precisely to do with the shallow, boring, buggy ill thought out "missions" FD thought would be good enough. Who needs to go on a single explore - every system I jump into in the core system is no different from the systems outside the core and I haven't explored the majority of those yet. How is it going to be different going out further? What's going to change that's going to make a boring task more interesting?

 

[Derath]

I'm a satisfied player and certainly rarely post in these kind of threads.

I have 330 hours in game, 55m credits in the bank and am pootling about doing missions in a Hauler. I'm like to play slow, but can imagine things must be frustrating for power gamers who always want more. Was going to write some more but I finished my tea so must get back to the cockpit and deliver this sensitive data.

good man! Fly safe nothing that goes on the forums really matters if your having fun

 

[Jex =TE=]

Are you a troll? You've been going around threads posting intensely negative statements with no back up and ignoring any response that refutes your claim so I'm not even going to bother this time

Oh really - go and post one thread I haven't backed up when asked and intensely negative - the truth is intensively negative go and complain to FD, not me. I think I'll be waiting a while for one of these posts but nice try, troll.

 

[Bran Tse Mallory]

Again with this nonsense - shame on you for parroting something as idiotic as this.

Hello Jex,

Ready to play I see... Ok, I'll bite!

You are correct in saying that you won't find people asking directly for hand holding quests in the game but, yes you knew it was coming... We do get a huge amount of players saying there is nothing to do in the game rebutted of course by those who say the game is packed full of stuff!

The argument has been put forward that a progressive story that leads the player through all the different activities would get around this - hold there hands so to speak.

The reason why we see no-one ask outright for it is because we all like to look like we can play the game fine as it is except some cannot.

Myself for example, I'll go home tonight without a clear idea of what fun I'm going to get up to but once I sit in that seat and take the controls, well anything could happen. Or I might sit down in front of GTA and allow myself to be told a story - nothing in that game inspires me to just exist.

There are a lot of gamer's out there who need to have their hands held. Elite could have some quests inside in the traditional manner without to much disruption. Have the new player find and collect a UA, then be sent to scan a barnie all in the name of bringing them into the larger story line.

So while you are right in saying no-one outright asks for it, the implication for a scripted set of tasks is clear.

 

[CMDR Heisenberg B. Damned]

I think as far as the OP goes the answer would be no to the ALL bit of your original question

I'm quite happy though - if that helps any.

 

[frostypaw]

He's not trolling about that, the most well known/documented systems have realistic characteristics but we earthlings don't even have realistic characteristics for even 1% of the galaxy, and that's in the science community in general not talking about elite.

I'd be genuinely shocked if over 1000 systems had hand picked data, i'd imagine a couple of hundred tops.

Edit: I mean come on they are still debating at the moment if they've found a planet past pluto in our own solar system but you think they mapped out 4 billion systems?

edit2: and in this circumstance considering the actual factors involved it would be on the people who believe it was a piece for piece recreation to provide proof not the other way around, its like somebody declaring they have discovered the secret to immortality and everybody accepting it and telling the world at large to prove he/she wasn't telling the truth lol

I'm not stupid, I know the planets aren't right but I think you should check your claims - a lot of the stars are in the right places, the nebulae etc are in the right places and mostly roughly right and the systems are based on the best of scientific understanding.

I think you underestimate the amount of stars that have been catalogued, though not all those are replicated there's been a huge amount of work done beyond "stars, something spiral"

All the planets are made up, where's the dark matter, asteroids, comets, even the stars and nebula are guess work too apparently. So they say it's a "replica" of our galaxy but it's nothing of the sort. Do you think if they just jiggled the stars around a little but kept the spiral shape any would notice or care?

you can't see dark matter, we have asteroids, the stars are based on real life and the best scientific knowledge and the visible from earth nebulae are all right. So yes you're right on comets. 1 out of 4 ain't all bad

 

[Jex =TE=]

Hello Jex,

Ready to play I see... Ok, I'll bite!

You are correct in saying that you won't find people asking directly for hand holding quests in the game but, yes you knew it was coming... We do get a huge amount of players saying there is nothing to do in the game rebutted of course by those who say the game is packed full of stuff!

The argument has been put forward that a progressive story that leads the player through all the different activities would get around this - hold there hands so to speak.

The reason why we see no-one ask outright for it is because we all like to look like we can play the game fine as it is except some cannot.

Myself for example, I'll go home tonight without a clear idea of what fun I'm going to get up to but once I sit in that seat and take the controls, well anything could happen. Or I might sit down in front of GTA and allow myself to be told a story - nothing in that game inspires me to just exist.

There are a lot of gamer's out there who need to have their hands held. Elite could have some quests inside in the traditional manner without to much disruption. Have the new player find and collect a UA, then be sent to scan a barnie all in the name of bringing them into the larger story line.

So while you are right in saying no-one outright asks for it, the implication for a scripted set of tasks is clear.

Then you will be able to produce some evidence of this since you are making the claim so go ahead, let's see it.

It's factual there is stuff to do in the game. It is also factual that those things to do are very simplistic and shallow. I have seen some people ask for a story mode but I was under the impression that the majority of complaints came from the simplistic and repetitive nature of the missions. Stories have been asked for to make the universe feel more alive.

Another I find odd with your response is that each and every part of ED is scripted. You pick up a mission it's scripted (go here, do X) and if it isn't, it's pure RNG but this has been said a thousand times, how is it I need to explain it again - what is it that you're not understanding about the points we're making about making the game better? There must be a way to resolve this, right?

 

[Viking84]

So while you are right in saying no-one outright asks for it, the implication for a scripted set of tasks is clear.

I really don't agree with this. The majority of posts I see are asking for more depth™, and some are specifically mentioning games like MineCraft as examples of deep games. (Edit: MineCraft being possibly the least story-driven game I have ever played, at least in its early days).

As I mentioned in another thread here - the main problem with Elite as it stands is that if you want to pursue a profession of any kind, without resorting to missions, you are left with some VERY simple mechanics:

• Trading - Buy cheap, sell expensive. That's literally it, as your actions have minimal effect on the systems you are trading in.
• Bounty Hunting - Get lucky and find someone with a bounty. Want to hunt a specific commander? Nope, you can't. Want to hunt a specific NPC? Tough luck, he is just randomly generated
• Pirating - Pretty much as above, get lucky and find a good target, or don't.
• Smuggling - Buy something illegal, boost into a station with a black market, and sell it. No stealth, no need to choose routes carefully.
• Exploring - Pick destination. Fly, honk, scan whatever looks nice. No challenge at all.
• Mining - Find a pristine ring. Point mining lasers at rock. Profit.

This really is all there is to it. It doesn't even scale in difficulty or complexity as you get better at the game, it is just seriously simple. Now as pointed out in the other thread there are videos on Youtube with the Elite Devs where they seem to agree that this is all pretty bare bones at the moment, and they wish to improve it.

But saying that people are complaining because they want hand-holding and clear instructions is just plain wrong...

 

[Derath]

I'm not stupid, I know the planets aren't right but I think you should check your claims - a lot of the stars are in the right places, the nebulae etc are in the right places and mostly roughly right and the systems are based on the best of scientific understanding.

I think you underestimate the amount of stars that have been catalogued, though not all those are replicated there's been a huge amount of work done beyond "stars, something spiral"

you could be right maybe i am, but I think you underestimate just how big 4 billion is , i'm not saying they haven't done alot and they have done a good job of putting the things we do know about in the right place, but to me if they had accurately translated 1% of our galaxy to this game that wouldn't be an insult it would be an unbelievable accolade lol, but that is the problem to me at least it is unbelievable.

 

[Jex =TE=]

you can't see dark matter, we have asteroids, the stars are based on real life and the best scientific knowledge and the visible from earth nebulae are all right. So yes you're right on comets. 1 out of 4 ain't all bad

You don't even know what dark matter is, nobody does and of course you can see it by not seeing it Point is, it's not in the game and nobody knows what it does or what it affects so what happens when you fly a ship into it? You have stationary asteroids, not moving ones. The stars I took from someone elses comment in this thread earlier I think - they said something about the nebula being a close approximation and the stars too - ok so close is not the same as modelled accurately and what about the stars on the other side of the center? Seems even out Scientists don't know we're a spiral galaxy...

Astronomers are one step closer to solving a longstanding mystery — just what our Milky Way galaxy looks like.

It may seem odd that a comprehensive understanding of the Milky Way's structure has so far eluded researchers. But it's tough to get a broad view of the galaxy from within.

"We are fairly confident that the Milky Way is a spiral galaxy, but we don't know much in detail. At the most basic level, we'd like to be able to make a map that would show in detail what it looks like," said Mark Reid of the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics, who led the new study.
- See more at: http://www.space.com/25584-milky-way-structure-spiral-arms.html#sthash.HtQcHqQh.dpuf

http://www.space.com/25584-milky-way-structure-spiral-arms.html

I suppose we'll need to imagine ED got it right

 

[Jex =TE=]

I really don't agree with this. The majority of posts I see are asking for more depth™, and some are specifically mentioning games like MineCraft as examples of deep games. (Edit: MineCraft being possibly the least story-driven game I have ever played, at least in its early days).

As I mentioned in another thread here - the main problem with Elite as it stands is that if you want to pursue a profession of any kind, without resorting to missions, you are left with some VERY simple mechanics:

• Trading - Buy cheap, sell expensive. That's literally it, as your actions have minimal effect on the systems you are trading in.
• Bounty Hunting - Get lucky and find someone with a bounty. Want to hunt a specific commander? Nope, you can't. Want to hunt a specific NPC? Tough luck, he is just randomly generated
• Pirating - Pretty much as above, get lucky and find a good target, or don't.
• Smuggling - Buy something illegal, boost into a station with a black market, and sell it. No stealth, no need to choose routes carefully.
• Exploring - Pick destination. Fly, honk, scan whatever looks nice. No challenge at all.
• Mining - Find a pristine ring. Point mining lasers at rock. Profit.

This really is all there is to it. It doesn't even scale in difficulty or complexity as you get better at the game, it is just seriously simple. Now as pointed out in the other thread there are videos on Youtube with the Elite Devs where they seem to agree that this is all pretty bare bones at the moment, and they wish to improve it.

But saying that people are complaining because they want hand-holding and clear instructions is just plain wrong...

Maybe when we complain about the game mechanics, other people think we're complaining about the other things you can do in the game. Nobody can defend the current game mechanics as deep but we're only talking about those things.

Getting in buggies and racing around a planet with your friends is not the game ED made. In fact, I'll go as far as to say the devs never envisioned people doing stuff like that but you can literally do that in any game. So why not play any other game and make up your own game play? The thing is, when you've done your buggy racing, what do you have to come back to? When you're on your own, what do you do? How do you like the game mechanics?

 

[frostypaw]

You don't even know what dark matter is, nobody does and of course you can see it by not seeing it Point is, it's not in the game and nobody knows what it does or what it affects so what happens when you fly a ship into it? You have stationary asteroids, not moving ones. The stars I took from someone elses comment in this thread earlier I think - they said something about the nebula being a close approximation and the stars too - ok so close is not the same as modelled accurately and what about the stars on the other side of the center? Seems even out Scientists don't know we're a spiral galaxy...

You need to look into some of what you're saying.

Dark matter is so called - if it exists - because it is so weakly interacting that there is no way to detect it. If theories are right it's passing through you all the time - this is just making up problems.

We DO know we're in a spiral galaxy - there's been lots of research using incredibly complicated systems - look it up. velocity distributions come into it a lot it's very confusing

Moving asteroids - they do move just not as much as you'd like. This is ridiculously small fry stuff

And if they've got the shape, the distribution of star types, the types of stars and nebulae etc fairly right then there's a change they're well above 1%

Seriously. Find a better gripe, you need to know more about this one to make it

 

[Bran Tse Mallory]

Then you will be able to produce some evidence of this since you are making the claim so go ahead, let's see it.

It's factual there is stuff to do in the game. It is also factual that those things to do are very simplistic and shallow. I have seen some people ask for a story mode but I was under the impression that the majority of complaints came from the simplistic and repetitive nature of the missions. Stories have been asked for to make the universe feel more alive.

Another I find odd with your response is that each and every part of ED is scripted. You pick up a mission it's scripted (go here, do X) and if it isn't, it's pure RNG but this has been said a thousand times, how is it I need to explain it again - what is it that you're not understanding about the points we're making about making the game better? There must be a way to resolve this, right?

Did you spot the use of the word implication? Also I am not your forum search monkey.

Scripting and RNG are never good bed fellows... More when I get home.

 

[Jex =TE=]

You need to look into some of what you're saying.

Dark matter is so called - if it exists - because it is so weakly interacting that there is no way to detect it. If theories are right it's passing through you all the time - this is just making up problems.

We DO know we're in a spiral galaxy - there's been lots of research using incredibly complicated systems - look it up. velocity distributions come into it a lot it's very confusing

Moving asteroids - they do move just not as much as you'd like. This is ridiculously small fry stuff

And if they've got the shape, the distribution of star types, the types of stars and nebulae etc fairly right then there's a change they're well above 1%

Seriously. Find a better gripe, you need to know more about this one to make it

So I just quoted real scientists and you're saying their wrong? I linked it - it is 2 years ago so something might have changed but I'm not making the claim, I posted what scientists said so if you want to refute them, go ahead and provide the data.

If you want to be the first to get a noble prize for discovery what dark matter is, good luck to you but please don't tell me I'm wrong about something nobody knows about.

Moving asteroids - they don't move in ED. I should be able to fly next to it and follow it's route. If I stop, the asteroid should keep going, like they would in our actual galaxy.

Yet again I have to point out a nonsensical reply to my post. You are literally wrong on everything you said. 400 billion stars, how many trillions of planets, asteroids, comets, dark matter and the stars that can't even see inside the centre of the galaxy? I think 1% is probably about right?

 

[frostypaw]

So I just quoted real scientists and you're saying their wrong? I linked it - it is 2 years ago so something might have changed but I'm not making the claim, I posted what scientists said so if you want to refute them, go ahead and provide the data.

http://galaxymap.org/drupal/node/204

If you want to be the first to get a noble prize for discovery what dark matter is, good luck to you but please don't tell me I'm wrong about something nobody knows about.

Now you're just being intentionally awkward. You're wrong, you can't go crashing into dark matter, if you could we could easily detect it.

Moving asteroids - they don't move in ED. I should be able to fly next to it and follow it's route. If I stop, the asteroid should keep going, like they would in our actual galaxy.

Motion is relative. Were you stationary compared to the star or the asteroid or the galactic centre, and did you play Frontier?

Yet again I have to point out a nonsensical reply to my post. You are literally wrong on everything you said. 400 billion stars, how many trillions of planets, asteroids, comets, dark matter and the stars that can't even see inside the centre of the galaxy? I think 1% is probably about right?

Oh I guess you're right - we should totally give up on it all because we can't be exactly right to your specific exacting standards so what's the point? Nice attitude, helpful!

 

[Jex =TE=]

Did you spot the use of the word implication? Also I am not your forum search monkey.

Scripting and RNG are never good bed fellows... More when I get home.

It was a little unfair to ask you to search for post as it would be a gargantuan task but your reply is worrying. You make a claim, YOU back it up and if you don't know that by now, I'm not sure what to say. What most people do is ignore your claim as unsubstantiated with you refusing to back it up - that's not a problem for me lol

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

http://galaxymap.org/drupal/node/204

Now you're just being intentionally awkward. You're wrong, you can't go crashing into dark matter, if you could we could easily detect it.

Motion is relative. Were you stationary compared to the star or the asteroid or the galactic centre, and did you play Frontier?

Oh I guess you're right - we should totally give up on it all because we can't be exactly right to your specific exacting standards so what's the point? Nice attitude, helpful!

Ok first off I made the claim that the ED universe is nowhere near accurate to real life and then pointed out things that support that claim. My claim is right so unless you have anything to counter it, like you're rare knowledge of Dark matter that somehow you know more about than reality, I don't think we can take this any further.