What went wrong with Elite Dangerous

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I get what you are saying and don't want to jump down your throat, lol. I'm trying to remain civil during my stay here, but seem to be attacked once I'm found to be part of a certain organization or branded a certain type of player. You admit to being a certain part of community here then EVERYONE will jump down your throat and your suggestions become preposterous.

I'm just saying that rather than accepting the fact that it is too large to change and let something like this remain static perhaps there are other option to approach it to make the market more vibrant, such as having CMDRs provide the supply to stations instead of stations auto refreshing. I'm not saying in any ways that my suggestions are perfect but rather would like to open up avenues of discussion to improve the game in which there are obvious problems or stagnation.

PvPer/Pirate or not. We love the game as much as you all do. We would like to see this game improve for everyone, not just the community that I subscribe to. Too often do I see people here taking the "Like it or leave it" attitude around here. They've always had vanilla ice cream and unwilling to try strawberry because vanilla is what they are used to. I would love to be playing this game at the end of it's 10 year plan, but the way I will be the pessimist and say it won't happen. Not because I don't love the game, but because someone else will do a better job within that time period.

Speaking as a trader/bounty hunter that has been a little vocal about how piracy (yes those guys that want my profit or that I occasionally hunt) needs some love, I'm not going to even think about getting into arguments about the roles. I think we'd agree on a lot of it anyway.

However, do you really ever see the playable galaxy getting smaller? I sure don't. Given that sheer size, even if we restrict it to the inhabited bubble, there's nothing FD can do to make an "economy" be truly player-run, or even player driven, unless we multiply the number of active players by a couple orders of magnitude at least. No matter how they tweak it, unless they make it totally "gamey" and silly, we're not going to run this economy. They can improve how sensitive their background simulation of trade routes is to our actions, but they can't risk going too far without a galactic economic kaboom - stability of a market demands numbers in its participants and there aren't enough of us to guarantee that. No matter what role we take, pirate, smuggler, explorer, hunter, miner or trader. And to actually have the economy be "player-run" we'd need critical mass in ALL of those. FD have sold a million and a half copies of the game and there's STILL not enough of us for that. We're the population of a medium-sized city making our way in a galactic economy. No, we're never going to move it. Not in any large way and not in any sense quickly. That may seem "static" but it's just we cant kick the rock hard enough to roll it down the hill.
 
We excited about the new things coming out but or more hesitant to believe the hype, as Horizons was more than lack luster.
The trouble is when you say things like this about a product that's only 1/5th out, and then bang on about having done everything in the game when it's clear as day to everyone you haven't as none of these mysteries have been solved then your entire point is shown up as the demanding rant it is.
 
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Actually, the server frame rate issues don't cause client frame rates to drop, it causes desync issues, rubber banding, unable to use items, weapons not firing, etc, due to the server running far slower than the clients and not picking up input during the frames it's not 'seeing'. All part of alpha testing, actually not too bad, seen MUCH worse, like in MWO...and in MWO it was due to the same issue, CryTek's craptacular netcode which has to be refactored to server auth instead of client auth...ugh...but it's getting much better every interation.

As for the pay to win...sorry, I'm gonna laugh at you right now :) Pay to win presupposes there's something to win, and that's not the case with SC, another sandbox game, no end game, no high level content, nothing to win. Combine that with permadeath, and PvP isn't going to be a big thing in the PU itself, people will avoid it if possible, loss of things you've earned...not just a rebuy, they have insurance just like E: D, but actual LOSS of those things, no rebuy, straight loss due to you being dead, end of character and all it's possessions....

Like I said, pew pew folks creating a lot of noise over the lack of balance in AC right now, something CIG has said isn't a priority because the PU and SQ42 are where all their work is going. Combine that with the fact that pew pew in the PU won't ever be a big deal due to permadeath...pay to win? Win what?
Well I know several that have framerate issues as well included in the other issues, so it isn't just me, but yeah. but yeah you are correct and that is one thing that has worried me continually about Star Citizen, it is built on the Cryengine 3. Which.......yeah, doesn't exactly have the best performance and many many weird issues weirdness issues including netcode, so yeah, but you are right it is improving, we will see, just a worry, that the foundation of the engine is not up to the task. Course there are several people that say that porting from Cry engine 3 to Unreal Engine 4, including your own customized code and modifications is a breeze, so maybe if it gets too bad they will do that?

As for the pay to win, I get why laugh, yes I am aware there is no 'win' situation, but in my mind, if you can buy progression, in this case ships, then it can fall into pay to win, because someone can be flying a vastly superior ship then you, and win because of that, without it requires them to actually having gone through the steps to get it, they just cashed in, now yes I am aware that they are simply transferring 'effort' irl into a game, but it is something that has in so many games ended up going bad, but yes, you are also correct that they can entirely possibly lose it, and I am honestly wondering how people will react when that does happen, I predict a lot of outrage, especially after life time insurance was removed. We will see I guess, but I still feel it is a legit worry, it isn't exactly a territory many have walked the right way, hopefully CIG will do it differently.

But yes the main problem I see with the 'pay to win' part is, in short, griefers, people buy a ship powerful enough to harass many people, course Chris has talked about the system that will be in place to make them suffer, but we will see.

It isn't exactly areas that many games have managed to handle smoothly, and that is my worry, because it is a very difficult thing to address.
 
Reset the save will cause me to lose all stats and accomplishments I've worked on since launch. With the knowledge I have of this game I can put myself in a Python or larger ship within a week. Sorry, but it's not the same. 2 billion after playing since launch really is not much credits, lol. This whole power through argument does not apply here. In fact I did not power through anything and have taken my time to enjoy everything the game has to offer, it really does not take that much time. You were able to experience all that Horizons launch had to offer in one day. I don't need your sympathy, just need you to sit back. If you feel that 2 billion credits since launch is a lot then you are either inefficient or super casual, super casual being fine. Just because you feel that the suggestions won't benefit you personally does not mean that suggestions would benefit everyone and the game as a whole. In fact, if you are super casual perhaps it's best that you sit down and let more experienced players evaluate the game.

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You seem to misunderstand that improve doesn't mean change.

Especially some of the UBER grindy mechanics being suggested - that players actually have to do the day jobs to get the products for the stations to sell???

There's enough 'job' in life already. Gaming shouldn't require more of it and almost all the suggested improvements just make it into a grind fest when currently you can do pretty much what you want from the get-go

Are you suggesting that this game is not uber grindy right now?
 
In fact, if you are super casual perhaps it's best that you sit down and let more experienced players evaluate the game.

You post from the camp of credits=progress. Credits do not equal experience, and progress is not measured in credits.

Play the game in a free Sidewinder. With a bit of experience, it's immensely fun - and you'll never need credits ;)
 
You post from the camp of credits=progress. Credits do not equal experience, and progress is not measured in credits.

Play the game in a free Sidewinder. With a bit of experience, it's immensely fun - and you'll never need credits ;)

Actually I don't, I have no desire to put myself in the "Biggest Ship" I was flying a Python before the new meta and now I'm in an FDL. The point is no matter what ship you are in, as long as you have enough to cover multiple re-buys, you don't need to trade, smuggle or do anything involving credits. When you've participated in all "jobs" this game has to offer, player interaction is the only thing that brings something fresh to the game.
 
Combine that with the fact that pew pew in the PU won't ever be a big deal due to permadeath...pay to win? Win what?

Haven't really followed sc closely. Disposable time is an issue. :D
PU is the place where you can fly your real cash ships?
In that case.. throw enough money at it to bypass in game progress and it's loss and it basically is pay to .. hmmm.. not lose?
Or do you just unlock them for real money and have to grind back up in the game?
 
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Are you suggesting that this game is not uber grindy right now?
There's nothing grindy about it.

Some people choose to grind, no one makes you at any point unlike countless games I have played where you simply cannot progress until you've got 60,000XP and that's easiest to get killing rats. Nope here you can do most everything right away - how you played the game was all your call fella sorry

That's why you're finding this 'loadsamoney' situation - the credits never mattered anyway. The fun is yours to make.

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Haven't really followed sc closely. Disposable time is an issue. :D
PU is the place where you can fly your real cash ships?
In that case.. throw enough money at it to bypass in game progress and it's loss and it basically is pay to .. hmmm.. not lose?
It's the one where they've been told they can make real money and go buy clothes for their character or get a job, start a company and employ people etc *spacestuff*
 
OK, so for 2015 50+ demographic beats the 18 below demographic by a whole 1 percent. Using some critical thinking, I would much rather put place my bet on the 18 and below demographic as they have 40 years more years of being a consumer as well as influencing their future children on what products to buy. It's one thing to be able to read simple data, but interpreting it and using it to your advantage is another.

You seem to feel that I want the game to cater to me and my own purposes and refuse to accept any of them as decent ideas simply because you have labeled me as part of the community that is hated around here. Sure there's emergent content out there, but again you want to stop at a certain point, according to your own personal needs and wants. You are being just as greedy as you feel I am. Me and my buddies have been thanked in the past by once strictly solo players for their experiences in Open, being positive. Just because you don't agree with it does not mean there's no place for it. I cannot say this enough but you seem to not want to listen. We don't want another Eve or SC. We want this game to improve to be better than the both. We excited about the new things coming out but or more hesitant to believe the hype, as Horizons was more than lack luster.

Just because you are pleased with what is happening does not mean there are improvements that could be made. Sorry to say but most of us transitioned to PvP because we've done everything else in the game and thoroughly. We've experienced all of what this game has to offer and at the end of the day it's not the game itself that saves us from leaving, but the human element.

Sure it doesn't have to be conflict with each other but why not. At the end of the day FD advertised and promoted that you can have conflict with each other. At the end of the day we are playing the game as advertised to us as well as using the in game tools to do so. FD allowed us to interdict other CMDRs, FD gave us hatch breakers, FD made our lasers damage other CMDRs ships. This is something you need to accept. You say FD doesn't want this or that, but the way they have developed the game and promoted disagrees with you. Plain and simple. You are using your personal tastes to try to counter what FD themselves have promoted and marketed.

Sorry you disagree, but people like you are really stuck in 1984 and want nothing more than to hamper what this game can be. Which is not SC or Eve, but something greater. No you are not reaching for the stars, you are accepting that there are a certain amount of stars and not wiling to fly further to find the hidden stars in the sky.

First off, the data is the data, you trying to make it show something to suit your desires is just . As a wise man said, 'there's lies, damned lies and statistics'. I pointed out what the data shows, you called it false, despite it not being false, again, trying to make it show what you want despite the reality being what it is.

You keep saying I don't like PvP, despite me saying I do. I've been doing online PvP game since Doom, I ran top teams in the leagues for many games over the years, been a top player myself, I love PvP in games designed for PvP. E: D isn't one of those, claiming otherwise simply shows a total lack of experience in PvP gaming. I didn't get E: D to do PvP, I knew it sucked for that before I got it, still not sure how people get the idea it's a PvP game, guess they just don't have much PvP gaming experience, only thing I can think of. First clue...Solo and Group modes...that doesn't give it away, well, nevermind.

As to Horizons being lackluster...since we've only gotten a very small part of the Horizons season, how can you make that call? That tells me all I need to know....

There are a LOT of things coming to E: D, I'm aware of what they are because I've read the KS and all the stuff since then, the stuff actually being stated as being IN, not the blue skying and what ifs, although some of that would be awesome. Storylines, already in the game world. Owning stuff, not happening, get over it. Controlling areas, not possible due to the modes, get over it. The modes, not being changed, part of the package from the inception, get over it. What's coming is what's coming, and it's pretty damn cool, essentially, it's Star Citizen on much more massive scale and with less socialization. FPS, walking around ships, walking around planets, atmospheric planets, alien life forms, hunting them, all that stuff, it's coming, it's part of the actual design plan. So I'm good with waiting for it and I'll judge it as it comes around, not before then, as that's just silly as hell to do. Law and Order system, something I've stated many times that FD need to fix, which they've said is coming this season, so I'll wait and see what happens on that side. I see no reason to keep demanding something that's not only been admitted by FD but also stated to be in this season's updates. But you keep on doing that, asking for the stuff that's slated for this season, show us how in the know you really are!


Kristov my friend, whilst I always enjoy your posts - I'd like to ask you to drop the use of "netcode". We both know such a thing doesn't exist and it is simply a nonsense word spouted by people who have absolutely no idea what is involved in network transactions :D

Sometimes, you gotta speak the language that people understand so they know what you are talking about. That's what made Carl Sagan so great, he could tell someone with a 3rd grade education how a black hole comes into existence and that person would understand it. Him and Darth Vader, pre-Return mind you and totally ignoring I-III, are my heroes... The stuff CryTek did for multiplayer...even for client auth, it's horrible. Took the head engineer over at PGI over 6 months to get that refactored, 18 months total to make it work mostly right..he's still working on that all the time. CIG is taking longer, but they've also changed their minds a few times on how to do it, and realized that they could do it so much better as they went along. Taking data that's 5MB and turning it into a 5kb chunk...that's good stuff man, I'm impressed. You been keeping up with it?
 
I don't get why all these 30+ players assume that anyone lower than them makes next to no money. I see it so much in this thread with the whole 'get a better job, ask mummy and daddy for money, not our fault you work at McDondalds' etc

Like please, Is that the level of banter you're on? I won't buy a HOTAS because I play so many games, Elite is the only one that would use it, so would get in the way.

I'm 25, I work in IT. If Frontier have a 10 year plan, who are they trying to win over? A 10 year plan is useless at the moment anyway as one can get an Anaconda in 1 day, which makes anything else simple. (best explorer, top 3 trading, combat etc)

If it's a sandpit and you get the best shovel, then what? You're still left with sand.
 
Haven't really followed sc closely. Disposable time is an issue. :D
PU is the place where you can fly your real cash ships?
In that case.. throw enough money at it to bypass in game progress and it's loss and it basically is pay to .. hmmm.. not lose?
Or do you just unlock them for real money and have to grind back up in the game?

Persistent Universe, the actual Star Citizen online MMO game itself. You can back the game now, in it's infancy still, and get a ship as a thank you, and there's a LOT of ships to pick from, depending on how much you want to back.

Right now, you can fly some of the ships in the alpha PU, test them out, see how they work, see how the fledgling mission system works, see how the fledgling law and order system works, and so on. It's fun and it's also annoying and aggravating as well, it IS an alpha, which means bare bones, basic frame work, missing lots of systems, no real balance due to that, and lots and lots of bugs!

SC is like E: D, sandbox, there's no levels, no experience, no progression, you just...play...pick something and do it. Any ships you pledged for, you'll start with when they get them working, either in the alpha currently, the beta which I figure will be around 2018, or when it goes live, probably 2019 I'm thinking currently. Since there's no progression, no levels, none of that stuff, pure sandbox without even the rank structure E: D has in place, you aren't bypassing anything but the time spent to afford the ships ingame.

Me, I'm just funding the game, I keep melting my ships(returning them for store credits) and turning them into other ships to see if I like them or not. Around $280 or so in my ships right now, probably put a little more in, who knows, but I'm pleased with the progression and I like Chris' vision for the games(single player is Squadron 42, not part of the persistent universe, takes place years before it), so I'm good with it. Much like E: D and David's vision, the two are remarkably similar and yet remarkably different at the same time.
 
There's nothing grindy about it.

Some people choose to grind, no one makes you at any point unlike countless games I have played where you simply cannot progress until you've got 60,000XP and that's easiest to get killing rats. Nope here you can do most everything right away - how you played the game was all your call fella sorry

That's why you're finding this 'loadsamoney' situation - the credits never mattered anyway. The fun is yours to make.

The block on progression in Elite is the grind for new ships after a certain point, and by god is it a grind. On the other hand if you're happy flying about an immersive, beautiful but currently shallow and buggy universe in the same cheap and limited ship for an interminable amount of time while making up stories in your head to fill in the gaps, then I reserve the right to throw gifs like this at you:-

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You can make up any content in your head for any game you like. Elite Dangerous is not a special snowflake exempt from the lack-of-content criticisms that other games get slapped with. The "make your own fun" excuse needs to be taken out around the back of a pressure silo and vaporized with a Class 4 laser.


On the subject of what's gone wrong - eh, nothing in particular yet, though my optimism is starting to wear a little with the extended silence. There's a lot of core game design issues that still need addressing and bugs that need fixing - I just hope Engineers makes some inroads in this direction. In it for long haul still, etc., that's not going to change - but when I think of ED at the moment it's definitely more with vague disappointment than genuine enthusiasm. Hoping this changes in the near future with 2.1 - though I've been burned by ED in that area before too :p Yes, I'm salty tonight [blah]
 
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Scripted Helpdesk doesn't count :D

Joking aside - it's good that you have a job. Many others are not that fortunate. Yes, I would like large fries :D

No, he won't have the large fries, his cholesterol count is to high, he'll have the supersized fries. Me too, and a large chocolate malt..er, shake, probably don't know what a malted is...*sigh*
 
Haven't really followed sc closely. Disposable time is an issue. :D
PU is the place where you can fly your real cash ships?
In that case.. throw enough money at it to bypass in game progress and it's loss and it basically is pay to .. hmmm.. not lose?
Or do you just unlock them for real money and have to grind back up in the game?

Wait for it, let them make the game first, you ain't gonna miss a thing. Everybody in that game will start with huge battle cruisers and capital ships LOL (joke)
or is it?
 
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The block on progression in Elite is the grind for new ships after a certain point, and by god is it a grind. On the other hand if you're happy flying about an immersive, beautiful but currently shallow and buggy universe in the same cheap and limited ship for an interminable amount of time while making up stories in your head to fill in the gaps, then I reserve the right to throw gifs like this at you:-
If you feel you can be that cocky about it would you mind telling me something you can do in your 'conda or whatever you 'ground' for that you can't do in a much smaller ship?

The content not being the type you like might indicate it's not the game for you, that doesn't make it wrong. There are huge swathes of games that I don't like - I don't play them. I want this freedom - it's why I like this game
 
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