Controversial Gameplay Mechanics

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Neffness

N
So, I've seen some arguments against having in game fleet mechanics and I think anyone who is apposed fails to realize that including these mechanics wont hurt your solo play. Furthermore, I'd just like to remind you "solo" players that if you click "open play"... you are not a solo player. You argue its not an MMO... well I hate to break this to you but MMO stands for Massive Multiplayer Online. The amount of players who are playing this game in the open world make it the massive part. Its multiplayer because there are more than 1 and its online because we click "open play" and without the internet that would be very difficult to pull off.

You don't want it to be Eve... Ok I get that. Guess what... its not Eve, even if you include fleet mechanics. I'm sorry to break this to you, but allowing people to communicate makes it as much Eve as it does World of Warcraft.

You don't want people to own space. Guess what, if you don't go into open play to get PVP'd, you'd never know. The only way you'd ever know is if you played the background sim. If you are playing the background sim then you are participating in open play mechanics. Simply put, if you want to enjoy this part of the game, welcome to the MMO that is Elite Dangerous.

You don't want to fly through a huge battle of ships? Don't go into open play! If you want to be in open play and don't want to get PVP'd I have some really bad news for you... its an open PVP game, you do know that right? You could always go to solo play or private group... guess what eve doesn't have... just sayin

For those of you who say you can only have 4 people in a wing... maybe but you can have lots of wings in an instance. Try it sometime, its awesome!

Some say the game works great without fleet mechanics, so don't add it... yeah that is a greaaaaaat way of thinking. Lets just not add anything that is not added because the game is awesome without it. I suppose you are boycotting Horizons then right?

So you don't want these awesome features... cool... lets just pretend that they do get added. Would you leave? I doubt it.

What it comes down to is you don't want to change your play style, and I get that. But allowing Vic the ability to mail someone or for us to see a fleet tag on a name does not change that in the least. If you are a solo player then why do you care? Go play solo. Why limit the ability of a game to add immersion for those who don't play solo? You realize while you do play alone, and because you don't see other players, doesn't mean we don't. I play with people all the time. I hang out and shoot stuff on almost a daily basis. I jump with people, enjoy station life with people, participate in community goals, get pvp'd and mine in fear. You should try it sometime, you might like it. Heck, you might just be really good at it!
 

COMMANDER ADAMA

C
Look guy's I can't even in my wildest dreams think the lot of you have never said "you know what I wish ED had?" Or do you really just sit there with drool on your keyboard going OMG this game is so perfect! I wouldn't ask for another thing?!

So you say why don't we go play EVE Online? If you want this in game you should look at another game instead? Oh EVE online has player owned stations, so I MUST want ED to be exactly like that! No, not even close. What the OP is asking for is that group play is looked at by Frontier. What we want are ways to better facilitate the fact that we are in a group in game. We want to be able to reach out, in game, and offer help, offer friendship, and group game play! Would I like to see a player group own a system? Heck yes I would....Then I could go there and kill them, instead of you! like this poor guy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvNieuEAJ6A
or this guy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9x8kBthxFa0
or this guy (combat logging is for babies by the way)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YG0IOFOMHuk

Instead of me roaming around killing you people I'd have a focus, something that a group could engage in. I'd very much like it if these mechanics were only available in open play. Because the fact that someone can go mess with my power play, or my home system, within the protection of private group, is absolutely absurd. So now my only recourse is to out pve them? Ok great! there's already that in game! Good for you guys! I'm glad you have something that makes you happy! Now why can't FD focus a bit on the group guys?

Now back to EVE online, yes that is a lot of our frame of reference, so at the surface it may appear to be exactly what we want ED to be right?! If you think that's what we want you clearly have fallen on your head a few to many times! What we're asking is that FD the developer, looks at our suggestions, realizes that group mechanics are important to us, and develop game play that is geared towards us as group members. In whatever way they see best. But we want it to be addressed and we want to fight directly with them. Not through the BGS, not through PP, we want a system in place that allows us to directly oppose or support another group. No way out, open play, we have assets they have assets, we can attack/protect/help protect/help attack...you see where I'm going? So why does the lot of you have to be so against us having that? Honestly, whatever FD comes up with I'm sure that we'll support it. Is it really so wrong to ask for the developer to give us some attention? Really? I don't think that it is, why do you?

Earth Defense Fleet, PvP Director, Commander Adama
 
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nosleepdemon

nosleepdemon
A good question OP, Galnet might be more interesting if player interaction could be more complex, especially among groups. Imo the reason from FDs standpoint may in the end, be a technical one: p2p does not do well with the "massively" part of multiplayer, even though Elite was marketed as an MMO.
 

Spacecat

Spacecat
1- Proper Fleet Mechanics
1.a. Fleet Tags
1.b. Fleet chat
1.c. Fleet Mail
1.d. Fleet bank
1.e. Fleet Invites and Dismissal

Meh.

2- Player Owned Stations and Outpost
3- Player Managed systems

I wouldn't mind owning a station, naming it, and making a profit from services, but I really don't want to play "sim-space station" either.

3.a. Player named system bodies

Meh. dumb planet names like "Yomama 5" don't do anything for me.

ED just needs more to do and some better rewards for doing it. They seem to be working on that, so we'll see...
 

Sullibulli

S
I totally agree with OP, there needs to be more endgame mechanics for minor factions, and how hard is it to add "fleet tag" CMDR Sullibulli?????? And how in the hell does that affect other people? I mean come on this feature is even in Call of Duty.

Now I'm not saying this game should be like EvE Online (and I'm Icelandic FYI and I haven't played it), although I think FD should take them into perspective, I mean they have great mechanics wich are based on people playing together and working together for a common goal wich benefits them.
Personally I think FD should remove Solo Play.
They should make the game more so people stay playing it.
And for your information this isn't 1980 so this game will never be like the old ED and FD and the new ED needs to adapt to the environment of the year 2016 wich in case you haven't noticed is the date today, this literally is the age of multiplayer, personally I don't see the point of most games today if they do not offer some kind of multiplayer.

Yours sincerely,
CMDR Sullibulli, EDF, Wing commander, Wing mate, Electrician and Space junkie.
 

Valsora

Valsora
At the simplest level, I think it's ridiculous that we can have minor factions now but can't have a roster or some kind of chat. Basing any and all communication outside of a wing in 3rd party systems outside of the game is more than a little bizarre. I can't think of a single other MMO that works this way. My 2 cents.

As much as we have Powerplay and community goals, it would be great to have assets for our factions under player control - even just some political or financial goals given once a faction comes into ownership of existing stations. Funding for military defenses in the system, tax rates and tariffs, things that can help generate income for the system such as taking advantage of local resources. There is a huge potential here to make something unique, incentives for people to join Fleets. The BGS doesn't have to be all BG. With enough skill we could push for new stations to be created via this kind of system.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Robert Maynard
COMMANDER ADAMA said:
Instead of me roaming around killing you people I'd have a focus, something that a group could engage in. I'd very much like it if these mechanics were only available in open play. Because the fact that someone can go mess with my power play, or my home system, within the protection of private group, is absolutely absurd. So now my only recourse is to out pve them? Ok great! there's already that in game! Good for you guys! I'm glad you have something that makes you happy! Now why can't FD focus a bit on the group guys?

Now back to EVE online, yes that is a lot of our frame of reference, so at the surface it may appear to be exactly what we want ED to be right?! If you think that's what we want you clearly have fallen on your head a few to many times! What we're asking is that FD the developer, looks at our suggestions, realizes that group mechanics are important to us, and develop game play that is geared towards us as group members. In whatever way they see best. But we want it to be addressed and we want to fight directly with them. Not through the BGS, not through PP, we want a system in place that allows us to directly oppose or support another group. No way out, open play, we have assets they have assets, we can attack/protect/help protect/help attack...you see where I'm going? So why does the lot of you have to be so against us having that? Honestly, whatever FD comes up with I'm sure that we'll support it. Is it really so wrong to ask for the developer to give us some attention? Really? I don't think that it is, why do you?
Click to expand...

The single shared galaxy state that is experienced and affected by all players in all game modes (and now all platforms) has been part of the game design for over three years now, as has mode mobility, and these features, along with the three game modes themselves, have survived many attempts, during that time, to have them modified or removed to suit the play-style of a subset of players who realise that these features would allow other players to avoid playing with them.

Frontier do seem to be moving toward their implementation of group play - it has started with Powerplay and continues with player sponsored Minor Factions. Obviously, these mechanics are player influenced, not controlled - and that would seem to be consistent with what we have read / watched from DBOBE himself - he has raised concerns regarding some of the gameplay possibilities facilitated by large player groups - indeed he would seem to find some of them distasteful [EGX 2014] - he seems to like small player groups. When he references Friends Alliances, these were implemented as Wings (presumably to avoid confusion with the Alliance Major Faction). He did say that player groups were being looked at though - as we have seen with player sponsored Minor Factions. Not a cookie cutter Guild implementation though, it's something different - which would seem to be consistent with Frontier's approach.

A lot of different features are important to different players / groups of players - whether any of those groups is large enough to be in a position to influence Frontier to change their development priorities is anyone's guess.
 
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Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
Thomas Marik said:
Is this where we go to get some in game tools to support player fleets?
Click to expand...

Nah, you want down in the cellar, with a flashlight, mind the stairs (there aren't any), bottom of a locked filing cabinet, stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying ‘Beware of the Leopard'.
 

hunvagy

hunvagy
COMMANDER ADAMA said:
Instead of me roaming around killing you people I'd have a focus, something that a group could engage in. I'd very much like it if these mechanics were only available in open play. Because the fact that someone can go mess with my power play, or my home system, within the protection of private group, is absolutely absurd. So now my only recourse is to out pve them? Ok great! there's already that in game! Good for you guys! I'm glad you have something that makes you happy! Now why can't FD focus a bit on the group guys?
Click to expand...

Wait.. what? So you only gank people because you are bored and there's nothing else to do? Really, that is your big argument? Also you as well as your Sky.. whatever seem to misunderstand what it means to name a minor faction. You in no way OWN said faction, the only thing this enables is to have your group represented in the game, and you can use the facilities the game provides to help it along. The same way others can influence it to disappear.

So yeah, social tools in moderation I can get behind. You lot taking control of a minor faction? Nope. Owning assets? Nope. We are pilots, not Marshals, Admirals, whatevers. Governments own assets, major and minor powers own assets,not loose hordes of random pilots. That is my stance and it's not going to change anytime soon.

Oh and btw, what exactly does Earth need defending from? Last I checked Sol was located in the heartlands of the Federation, and as a planet it was adored by everyone as the old home of humanity. I'm pretty sure the Federation can do a much better job at defending its own star systems then a ragtag group of pilots with delusions of grandure.

EDIt: Also a question. With a name like that, where would you imagine your "assets" to be? If your answer is around Sol, then please tell my why you see nothing wrong with player policing the most travelled part of the in-game bubble. Or would you like Smelly Bob and those Pilgrims settle somewhere far from the bubble?
 
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xondk

X
Robert Maynard said:
A lot of different features are important to different players / groups of players - whether any of those groups is large enough to be in a position to influence Frontier to change their development priorities is anyone's guess.
Click to expand...
I'm going to refer to my post previously.

This is some thing I feel would fit Elite perfectly, and would keep the focus on minor factions that are player guided only, and I think one of the big problems is that people aren't used to that kind of thing, but used to players being the end all be all, and the fact that players aren't 'directly' controlling everything is something few can wrap their heads around or so it seems.

hunvagy said:
Wait.. what? So you only gank people because you are bored and there's nothing else to do? Really, that is your big argument?
Click to expand...
I'm surprised that this surprises you, it is one of the major of reasoning behind griefing as well not just ganking, in my experience. One of many things that makes it sad.
 

Ziggy Stardust

Ziggy Stardust
COMMANDER ADAMA said:
Look guy's I can't even in my wildest dreams think the lot of you have never said "you know what I wish ED had?" Or do you really just sit there with drool on your keyboard going OMG this game is so perfect! I wouldn't ask for another thing?!
Click to expand...
Mostly I'm spending my time addressing strawmen on message boards.

Thanks for the content by the way.

Earth Defense Fleet, PvP Director, Commander Adama
Click to expand...
PvP Director? So you have an in game title about a concept that exists out of game?
 

Vicktore Beskor

Vicktore Beskor
Everyone talks about EVE online mechanics to be honest I would like to see Star Wars Galaxy mechanics. In swg you created an guild by placing a guild hall and all the guild management tools where though the guild halls interface. I would like to see fleet outpost that you anchor and all the fleet management tools you need be though that outpost interface. That would kill two birds with one stone fleets could have their oun stations and they could have all the tools they need in one place.
See everyone elite dose not have to be an eve clone and their are other games out there that the devs can use as inspiration.

P.S. Star Wars Galaxies was the best game ever created before the CU and the NGE was developed. And I would still be playing that game if they would have never changed it.

P. S.S. Star Wars Galaxies had the Best player cities ever. I would have to say is this if you ask me what kind of in game mechanics I truly would love to be added into the game it would be mechanics inspired by Star Wars Galaxies. With that being said I will not accept any more Eve online references used as examples in this thread because there are more games out there than just EVE.
 
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Roberto

R
I thought R3DB3RD's recent "chess/Monopoly" post hit the nail on the head. What you want is so far away from what Elite is that I don't understand why you're bothering with the game at all (maybe you aren't, since I never seem to encounter anyone in Sol!). "Walking over corpses" and city building? You want those other games down the hall, friend! Someone's sent you to the wrong address!

Even if those things do eventually end up in Elite, we're talking years down the line. Why waste your time like this? Even if you convinced everyone on this forum, the game you want still wouldn't magically spring into existence.
 
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