No, a power exploiting a system does not affect a minor faction's influence % at all.
Powerplay Dear Sandro - your analysis will be needed on Thursday morning!
- Thread starter Martin Schou
- Start date
No, a power exploiting a system does not affect a minor faction's influence % at all.
Hello Commanders!
A gentle reminder, let's keep it nice and friendly now.
Remember, although the powers are at war, we don't have to be, even when we disagree.
Hello Commander Roybe!
I've been rumbled!
Look, when I said I was a Federal sympathiser, you know I actually meant Alliance, right? Right?
Easy mistake to make, I mean, they sound almost identical, err, Fadiance. Alleral. Umm... Look over there, a giant humming-bird is about to eat your hat and cloak! (*runs for the door marked "weekend"*)
A gentle reminder, let's keep it nice and friendly now.
Remember, although the powers are at war, we don't have to be, even when we disagree.
Hello Commander Roybe!
I've been rumbled!
Look, when I said I was a Federal sympathiser, you know I actually meant Alliance, right? Right?
Easy mistake to make, I mean, they sound almost identical, err, Fadiance. Alleral. Umm... Look over there, a giant humming-bird is about to eat your hat and cloak! (*runs for the door marked "weekend"*)
Sandro
Can I get you or someone in the forum moderator teams to please remove the highly misleading pdfs from September?
In the income and upkeep details it strongly suggests that the turmoiled systems (Caria being an example) provide their income for the calculations. This is clearly not true, because if it was then Mahon would be at 101 systems, not 86.
I can't speak for anyone else, but these pdfs were part of my reasoning on how to handle our particular situation. They weren't the only thing, but it is very problematic to have misleading (if not outright false) official documentation on game mechanics that are this important.
Can I get you or someone in the forum moderator teams to please remove the highly misleading pdfs from September?
In the income and upkeep details it strongly suggests that the turmoiled systems (Caria being an example) provide their income for the calculations. This is clearly not true, because if it was then Mahon would be at 101 systems, not 86.
I can't speak for anyone else, but these pdfs were part of my reasoning on how to handle our particular situation. They weren't the only thing, but it is very problematic to have misleading (if not outright false) official documentation on game mechanics that are this important.
Use the "Report this post" function on that thread, Martin Schou. One of it's valid alternative uses is request help from the mod team.
Sandro seems to have left the building.
Sandro seems to have left the building.
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Yes, but I'm also trying to get his response as to why those pdfs were put up, when they are this misleading.
Oh please.
The irony is so strong I could walk on it. How about the simple act of attempting to invade their space against their wishes? That's pretty much a proven fact, and not open to argument by anyone.
Your response will likely be some variation of: "But Winters coming and hugging them doesn't affect NULL in any way!!1!1"
And here we have the core of the Fed attitude to minor player factions and the main difference between the Alliance and Winters/Hudson.
Only the things you care about, matter.
If the player minor faction doesn't want you in their space, or near it, you'll invade it anyway... then explain to them that this doesn't affect them in any way.
This is a complete lack of respect. What they want doesn't matter if it conflicts with what the glorious fist-pumping Federation wants.
Because you're a POWER.
Tell me it ain't so...
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I would agree. While the math in ALD's case ultimately worked out (the income wrongly added in Step 2 ultimately got removed in Step 4), that mistaken assumption could have been (was?) disastrous for us. While the difference for ALD was a -360 CC deficit and a -1073 CC deficit (so she was going to lose systems either way and step 4 corrected the math), the difference for us was something between like a 1500 to 1600 CC overage (no systems lost, all expansions gained) and a 1858 CC deficit (12 systems lost, all expansions lost). I don't think I need to expound on how very large of a difference in outcomes that is.
And having a document on the forum that purports to be the authority on how turmoil is calculated, when it clearly isn't just confuses the discussion. Decisions based on it can lead to pilots dumping hours of time and billions of credits into expansions we never, ever had a chance of actually getting. Indeed, we were wise to fortify everything, because if the math in the PDF is how it worked, we didn't actually need to fortify everything. But if we had held back fortifications to limit our CC intake assuming the PDF math was correct, we would have been in an even bigger hole than we found ourselves in.
So I would strongly urge taking it down. Perhaps even replacing it with the math of our own turmoil [yesnod]
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Lol. You are the master of misdirection. And as Bush Jr once said, "fool me once, shame on you... Fool me twice... Fool me twice... can't be fooled again".
So in order to verify your credentials we'll need to see a screenshot of your current Fediance ranking
.
Your argument is invalid as you are completely missing the point of my statement.
That's nice. But maybe you should answer the question I asked?
And why were those mechanics changes never announced then?
Just to reiterate, and this time as a game player not roleplay, there have been a few responses from NULL on here.
Some reasons for the choices we made.
1. Probably most important is roleplay. The majority of us act in game as some form of roleplay, not just play a game. And from that standpoint the feds and imps are not welcome, other than as emissaries (ie those pledged to fed/imp PP). Some are imp/fed and not power play, most of us are independent, and many will not trade imperial "tourists", but regardless we all push the NULL first and foremost. And those doing bgs elsewhere for fed imp tanks drop them and head home in times of need.
2. We had a fed faction in system. So if winters exploited our area that minor faction could easily take our influence. I don't mean here by winters players, I mean by anyone, it could be a newbies who's not following the bgs/storyline and just wishes feeds to be high or top ranking in systems.
3. The 'role over and play puppy dog' attitude irked many of our player base, and that was what solidified the whole group and held our mettle. And that was ultimately winters downfall in Dr Crucis. Players even sold ships to generate cash for the fast tracking. Then recouped losses, once at rank 5, by maintaining undermining and supplying forts to help the alliance after we'd bullied then into assisting us. (Note they didn't take much bullying)
5. Back to the roleplay, once we'd established expansions, we know some systems would come into fed/alliance/imp areas. This would have been OK, and we'd have requested permission to push our faction there. If you didn't want it, we'd leave it and work elsewhere. That would give any new NULL pilots the choice to be NULL and have a home system in a fed/imp/alliance PP location.
6. PP does affect bgs. Yes we don't have slaves, but winters banning them is bgs affecting. Feds giving fed factions bgs boost is affecting it, alliance gives all factions a bgs boost. So yes it does indeed affect it.
A final note, things may have been different if freedom fighters was released, for would the alliance be blamed then? Oh and as a side note, we called in help from other independents, on a promise to return the favour, so yes PP just got a whole lot more interesting, with minor factions all agreeing to help each other against a pp aggressors yolk. We didn't know if it would work, or if we could achieve it. So far it's stalemate. Players on all parties are getting tired of it, (January it started). But Ca sera sera, and I can't wait until NULL win this
We came across the inconsistencies when planning our controlled turmoils. We haven't trusted the pdfs at all.
I don't think there are any player groups that do, but that's no reason for why they shod be wrong. After all they are guides for new players. Why are they wrong did they create them to with us or did they not know what they where talking about? was it at mistake or have they changed the mechanics and not announced it?
This is what happened.
And I agree, they should not be wrong! That's why we wrote our own
That's why we wrote our own
The best guides in the galaxy, IMHO. I'm obviously biased now, but I was not an Antal pledge when I formed that opinion.
Just to reiterate, and this time as a game player not roleplay, there have been a few responses from NULL on here.
Some reasons for the choices we made.
1. Probably most important is roleplay. The majority of us act in game as some form of roleplay, not just play a game. And from that standpoint the feds and imps are not welcome, other than as emissaries (ie those pledged to fed/imp PP). Some are imp/fed and not power play, most of us are independent, and many will not trade imperial "tourists", but regardless we all push the NULL first and foremost. And those doing bgs elsewhere for fed imp tanks drop them and head home in times of need.
2. We had a fed faction in system. So if winters exploited our area that minor faction could easily take our influence. I don't mean here by winters players, I mean by anyone, it could be a newbies who's not following the bgs/storyline and just wishes feeds to be high or top ranking in systems.
3. The 'role over and play puppy dog' attitude irked many of our player base, and that was what solidified the whole group and held our mettle. And that was ultimately winters downfall in Dr Crucis. Players even sold ships to generate cash for the fast tracking. Then recouped losses, once at rank 5, by maintaining undermining and supplying forts to help the alliance after we'd bullied then into assisting us. (Note they didn't take much bullying)
5. Back to the roleplay, once we'd established expansions, we know some systems would come into fed/alliance/imp areas. This would have been OK, and we'd have requested permission to push our faction there. If you didn't want it, we'd leave it and work elsewhere. That would give any new NULL pilots the choice to be NULL and have a home system in a fed/imp/alliance PP location.
6. PP does affect bgs. Yes we don't have slaves, but winters banning them is bgs affecting. Feds giving fed factions bgs boost is affecting it, alliance gives all factions a bgs boost. So yes it does indeed affect it.
A final note, things may have been different if freedom fighters was released, for would the alliance be blamed then? Oh and as a side note, we called in help from other independents, on a promise to return the favour, so yes PP just got a whole lot more interesting, with minor factions all agreeing to help each other against a pp aggressors yolk. We didn't know if it would work, or if we could achieve it. So far it's stalemate. Players on all parties are getting tired of it, (January it started). But Ca sera sera, and I can't wait until NULL win this
Yes Commander, we understand your reasoning. I hope you do too, instead of calling us names. 1. You did not want Winters to take that part of space. 2. Winters saw the expansion of the Alliance as an act of agression. 3 We fight now, so let's fight.
It seems that several of your players get upset when they hear "We are a Power, you are a Faction". It is not about numbers. Winters has one of the smallest player numbers in the game. At least in an organised form. I remember there was a time when ALD had about 10 players for each of us. So many factions in the game are probably having more supporters than the Federation or maybe even all Powers combined. For us any kind of Faction has value from the Power's perspective. Since we have our strategies 3-4 cycles in advance and we fight against other Powers, which have superior numbers, your faction was irrelevant. I remember we actually told Enef not to contact you and just do our thing, because it could lead to this. Since the Alliance expanded there, it is only fair, they became part of Power Play and fight against us, while they are allied with the slavers. Role play on: which should suit you and your faction.
And yes, you are in for the long haul. Winters has been targeted as the first Power to be removed from PP by the Empire, on these forums, and we fight for each expansion, each system since week 1. You are very pleased with yourselves with winning over DR Crucis, and we congratulate you. But you fail to comprehend that Winters had another expansion that cycle, Amuzgo, where just one Cmdr of us delivered 85k expansion packages. And we fought against ALD. We did not appreciate you delivering the packages for the most part in solo, while sending a PvP group to slow us down and then publish their kills on your reddit. This motivated us a lot. As for the last cycle, we were part of one of the largest undermining efforts, opposed a Torval expansion in our space, pushed one into ALD's space, and won a prep war against ALD, and our organised group did everything in Open. So you see, you are a Faction, we are a Power.
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Goose4291
Banned
The fact you couldn't even respect the requests of the minor factions that supported you provides some indication of your lack of respect for minor factions.
https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteWinters/comments/3srpy7/operation_winters_will_be_closing_saturday/
Oh dear. You don't want to use that as an example. Truly. The ultimate example of RP causing drama.
Someone one in charge of a group wants to RP. Most members just want to play the game. Rejection. End of.
Edit: that minor faction was something that had been bolted onto the forerunner of the FLC that currently is the primary organised group for Winters. The faction was pretty much imposed on the PP players. PP being the original purpose of Operation Winters, not being a minor faction.
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