Scanning and Exploring...

JeffRyan · May 4, 2014

I've been reading the scanning threads and the exploration threads, but I've seen little in the effect of scanning on celestial bodies.

I'm strongly of the belief that planetary landings are necessary for exploration to totally work. Space. The final frontier... what if Kirk could never beam down to all those green ladies?! However due to the mechanics I'm willing to live with it.

But what information can we get from scanning celestial bodies? Do the autoresolve when we jump in, can we get better information from orbit? Do we need special scanners?

Memnoch · May 5, 2014

A cursory scan from a distance might tell you its size, mass and atmospheric content. But closer up you might be able to tell where valuable mineral deposits are, or discover hidden bases and crashed ships waiting for rescue.

PL is going to open up whole new avenues of exploration and discovery and after we have been flying around in space for a year or so we will welcome the change of scenery I'm sure.

JeffRyan · May 5, 2014

Thanks, as long as we get some nice scientific data as well.

Memnoch · May 5, 2014

If we did, other than for our own enjoyment, I'm not sure how useful that information would be in game terms. Whatever data you obtain, unless it is exploitable in some way it is fluff. Enjoyable fluff but fluff all the same.

Dante80 · May 5, 2014

Memnoch said:
If we did, other than for our own enjoyment, I'm not sure how useful that information would be in game terms. Whatever data you obtain, unless it is exploitable in some way it is fluff. Enjoyable fluff but fluff all the same.

Well, think of it this way.

As an explorer, a good chunk of your income would be acquiring and selling valuable information to authorities, alliances, groups or single players. Another avenue for income would be exploiting the finds yourself (for example via mining, salvaging or finding exotic module variants, weapons etc).

Now, lets say I'm the authorities, and you come to me with information about a new planet. The more information you give me, the more valuable it is for me, and the more money I would pay you. So, the more thorough you are in exploring, the more money you are going to make.

For example, I would pay more for a good map about a planet, showing composition, mineral locations, scientific data etc etc. As an explorer, finding the planet would be one thing. Exploring it thoroughly so that you can extract the maximum amount of data from it would be another. Especially in future expansions where atmospheric flight/landing would be possible. There is a difference between aligning your scanners to a celestial object from 10au away, and actually orbiting it for a while to take measurements and gain scientific data.

Also remember that a rudimentary qualitative approach to information was already a game feature in previous Elite games. To give an example, some military missions gave you a camera and told you to take reconnaissance photos of a secret military base in a planet. If you chose to take a photo from 100km away, you would be awarded for a good photo op. If you chose to get a photo from 10km away, you would be awarded for an excellent photo op.

Memnoch · May 5, 2014

When I read "scientific data" I didn't think of the stuff that was already covered such as mineral content i.e. possibly exploitable stuff/information, but more of things like the planets atmospheric content, its diameter, mass, distance from parent star, orbital period etc. That stuff is probably worthless fluff in game terms but interesting fluff as I said!

Dante80 · May 5, 2014

Again, its not fluff. Its actually a good chunk of your reward for the information. Those are things that the authorities would pay you to provide.

Memnoch · May 5, 2014

I guess the information is only worth what others are prepared to pay for it, 'tis true.

Jezzah · May 5, 2014

Dante80 said:
Now, lets say I'm the authorities, and you come to me with information about a new planet. The more information you give me, the more valuable it is for me, and the more money I would pay you. So, the more thorough you are in exploring, the more money you are going to make.

Is this a DDF sure thing?

Im thinking also - say you there Dante, you go to system GHTYERTY and do a bit of scanning and then come back with your information and sell it...now say 3 months later im flying about and come to the same system and do some scanning only i was a little bit more patient and found some more stuff - does the fact you've already sold your data publically mean i dont get anything for finding something you missed i wonder?

Dante80 · May 5, 2014

It would be really nice if you could sell the additional info, it both makes sense and also gives us a more detailed exploration environment in which new players don't have to move 1000 light years before getting paid for info.

DDF does not help much here though, since the threads are used to define/flesh out all mechanics as concepts, not give the last bit of detail and info the mechanics will have.

One thing is for sure. All that scientific information (and more!) is already in the game due to the way the procedural generation rules work to make the objects in the first place. Read this: http://us2.campaign-archive2.com/?u=dcbf6b86b4b0c7d1c21b73b1e&id=ee59a3bb5e#2

Spiggs · May 5, 2014

I couldn't find a topic in the DDF concerning Planetary Landing, Scanning or Prospecting so I’m just flying blind here. Apologies to those who have been inputting for ages if I’m going over old ground?

I think it would be absolutely brilliant if we could out fit our ship to do it ourselves or have probes that scan the surface a bit like KSP and create maps of the composition of the surface so we could extract resources, a bit like Kethane.

First there would be a rudimentary scan just giving you the basic elements that comprise the planet or moon (But you would learn tell-tail pointers or combinations of elements than may lead to more desirable and profitable resources).
Second you would probe the planetary body to look for specific elements and resources, but this would take more time and leave you vulnerable to attack.
Thirdly, once certain resources that you are looking for are identified, you then undertake a detailed scan to clearly pinpoint their locations on the surface. This would take a long time and you may have to leave probes in orbit and revisit. However the probes would only scan for one specific thing and not a broad spectrum so if you wanted to gather data on something else you'd have to do it again. This would give you a detailed map of the resource locations.
Then its just Land, Mine, Process, Store, Load-up, Transport and Sell, all while defending your investment.... EASY!!!! Or sell the info at a price.

Blighmy, I'm getting a bit giddy at just the thought of it!

I know there's loads of holes in this and I've gone a bit off topic, but I'm typing it as is just spilling out my head so its just totally conceptual.

Constructive criticism or link to thread where it was discussed before most welcome. :smilie:

Memnoch · May 5, 2014

I certainly like the sliding scale of information obtained. Planetary information would initially be at 0% and as you obtain more information, presumably by getting closer to it, this would rise. 100% might not need to be a complete orbit of the body, only to be close enough to make a detailed analysis of the body, which could also involved time and not just proximity.

The more data you gather the more it is worth.

Erimus Kamzel · May 5, 2014

Jezzah said:
Is this a DDF sure thing?

Im thinking also - say you there Dante, you go to system GHTYERTY and do a bit of scanning and then come back with your information and sell it...now say 3 months later im flying about and come to the same system and do some scanning only i was a little bit more patient and found some more stuff - does the fact you've already sold your data publically mean i dont get anything for finding something you missed i wonder?

That's something I'd hope is possible - allowing other players with more dedicated ships and equipment to come in after explorers and do detailed surveys and be rewarded accordingly for their work.

I see explorers more as trailblazers. People that always want to see what's over the next horizon and not get bogged down too long in one particular location. At least that's what my vision of what early ED explorers will be like on the whole in the initial game (pre-planetary landing).

After selling the info to npc corps, those corps could then advertise for other players to go out there and conduct detailed surveying. Even specialized surveying depending on what the npc corp is interested in (terraformable worlds, strategic outposts, or the mineral wealth of the system etc).

That would encourage diversity in playstyles instead of explorers doing it all themselves. Of course, there should be explorers in the Darwin mould who do prefer finding something and sticking around long enough to compile detailed analaysis, but separating pure exploration from explorer/surveyor roles could create some good solid player co-op interaction.

Mentioned it on another post but I would hope the first vistor to a new systems isn't the only one who gets a mention on the system blurb, but also credit is given to anyone who sticks around and does planet to planet, moon to moon, surveys too.

Dante80 · May 5, 2014

Its just that I want to be a damn exo-geologist in this game..

Memnoch · May 5, 2014

Sounds like it could be lucrative. Try explaining that to the pirates though:

"But I'm only carrying soil samples you b******s!!"

AnnuverScotinExile · May 5, 2014

FWIW: we did very little on this subject in the DDF. I do not expect much even by the gamma release. The impression I got was that FD were genuinely surprised by the number of people who said they just wanted to explore.

Dante80 · May 5, 2014

Yeah...they make a playable map with a couple of trillion celestial bodies to explore, and then get surprised that people want to explore them...

Gibbonici · May 5, 2014

From what I understand based on poking around various DDA threads, reading between the lines and channelling mysterious forces, each POI (whether it's planets, asteroids or noteworthy features such as mineral deposits(?)) will generate a tradeable piece of exploration data when discovered.

So the more time you spend surveying a system the more pieces of data you'll discover. Anything you miss can be discovered by someone else and sold separately.

I have no idea how accurate this is, but that's how I think it'll work. No doubt firmer info will come out in due course.

Spiggs · May 5, 2014

Memnoch said:
Sounds like it could be lucrative. Try explaining that to the pirates though:

"But I'm only carrying soil samples you b******s!!"

LOL, yes but that's one of the great things too. You'd have to defend your investment somehow? So a target for pirates yes, but also a target rich environment for Bounty hunters too!

The DDF already states that in future you will be able to employ a maximum of 2 NPC wingmen to help you get from A to B. What's to stop you employing NPC's as guards or bulding automated defences!

Really liking the input in this thread.

BRILLIANT!

Bob_H · May 5, 2014

Spiggs said:
I couldn't find a topic in the DDF concerning Planetary Landing, Scanning or Prospecting so I’m just flying blind here. Apologies to those who have been inputting for ages if I’m going over old ground?

I think it would be absolutely brilliant if we could out fit our ship to do it ourselves or have probes that scan the surface a bit like KSP and create maps of the composition of the surface so we could extract resources, a bit like Kethane.

First there would be a rudimentary scan just giving you the basic elements that comprise the planet or moon (But you would learn tell-tail pointers or combinations of elements than may lead to more desirable and profitable resources).

Second you would probe the planetary body to look for specific elements and resources, but this would take more time and leave you vulnerable to attack.

Thirdly, once certain resources that you are looking for are identified, you then undertake a detailed scan to clearly pinpoint their locations on the surface. This would take a long time and you may have to leave probes in orbit and revisit. However the probes would only scan for one specific thing and not a broad spectrum so if you wanted to gather data on something else you'd have to do it again. This would give you a detailed map of the resource locations.

Then its just Land, Mine, Process, Store, Load-up, Transport and Sell, all while defending your investment.... EASY!!!! Or sell the info at a price.

Blighmy, I'm getting a bit giddy at just the thought of it!

I know there's loads of holes in this and I've gone a bit off topic, but I'm typing it as is just spilling out my head so its just totally conceptual.

Constructive criticism or link to thread where it was discussed before most welcome. :smilie:

I don't think there is one single DDA thread with all the info you're looking for although this one deals with exploration in general, this one deals with scanners (scanning and targeting other ships specifically) and this one deals with mining and prospecting.

All three together pretty much say what you've written.