Not really feeling 2.1's new weapons...

Machinewash

Machinewash
CMDR Corlas said:
Ever tried to recharge a non-rechargable battery? :)

The implausibility isn't in transmitting the energy, it's the fact that it's magically received and routed. IMO, healing lasers should at least require a "recharge" utility module that's targeted by the beam.
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Ever try transferring energy from one device to another using induction? Ever try using feedback in an amplifier circuit? I can imagine firing a weapon that has matched the shield modulation so that the energy reinforces the shield harmonics rather than canceling out the shield harmonics, much like using feedback in an amplifier circuit.
 

CMDR Corlas

CMDR Corlas
Muetdhiver said:
Sooo....

people arguing that futuristic imaginary device created by A that interact with other futuristic imaginary device created by A
cannot possibly do so because one thinks imaginary device works in a similar way as today unrelated devices ?

really ?
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Basically.

I'm willing to suspend my disbelief for a lot, but I want the world I'm suspending it for to true to itself, so I need some sort of self-consistent logic that exists in that world. The logic of the Elite world is "science-y".

Shields that randomly start being able to accept energy from external sources, just because someone thought it would be cool, is not consistent with what has been established and what I've suspended disbelief for. Energy flow is a pretty fundamental concept. Breaking it entirely without even trying to make it plausible in-world is pretty frustrating for me.

I realize that I'm probably pretty extreme in how I like my fiction in this regard, and it's fine that others disagree.

But for the love of thargoids, will people PLEASE stop acting like "wireless charging" means anything as a response. All it means is that the person saying it doesn't understand the objection or doesn't understand wireless charging. Or both.

Honestly, a far better rebuttal than "wireless charging" is "that's the way this fiction works now, deal with it". My only response these is ":(".
 

CMDR Corlas

CMDR Corlas
Machinewash said:
Ever try transferring energy from one device to another using induction? Ever try using feedback in an amplifier circuit? I can imagine firing a weapon that has matched the shield modulation so that the energy reinforces the shield harmonics rather than canceling out the shield harmonics, much like using feedback in an amplifier circuit.
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I...

Hm. Ok, point conceded. :D

(Still think it's not a good game mechanic, but you've removed my objection in terms of sci-fi. Thanks!)
 
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Ian Phillips

Volunteer Moderator
Ian Phillips
I do remember a discussion about just this type of mechanic sometime before Alpha. The idea being then that a laser has a frequency, and that by modulating the shield frequency, you could absorb the energy, instead of it doing damage.

So, the "Healing laser beam" hasn't come as a surprise to me.
 

bitstorm

bitstorm
CMDR Corlas said:
Basically.

I'm willing to suspend my disbelief for a lot, but I want the world I'm suspending it for to true to itself, so I need some sort of self-consistent logic that exists in that world. The logic of the Elite world is "science-y".

Shields that randomly start being able to accept energy from external sources, just because someone thought it would be cool, is not consistent with what has been established and what I've suspended disbelief for. Energy flow is a pretty fundamental concept. Breaking it entirely without even trying to make it plausible in-world is pretty frustrating for me.
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Can you first explain how a shield gets its energy from an internal source, once you've done that I'll explain how a shield gets its energy from an external source.

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Ian Phillips said:
I do remember a discussion about just this type of mechanic sometime before Alpha. The idea being then that a laser has a frequency, and that by modulating the shield frequency, you could absorb the energy, instead of it doing damage.

So, the "Healing laser beam" hasn't come as a surprise to me.
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I think half the problem is looking for technical explanations while simultaneously calling it a "healing" beam.

I mean do you take your car to the mechanic and ask for it to be "healed"?

Surely the mechanic would wonder if you think cars are some inconceivable magic or something!

If you're asking your mechanic for details on how he's gonna "heal" your car don't be surprised if you're fobbed off with some explanation better suited to children. =p
 
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Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
Noddie said:
They have that "Magic" vibe to them, rather than feeling like engineering. One of the things i've always liked about E:D is that it always felt plausible, these new shield-recharging guns really don't. The problem is that once they're in, there will be merry hell to pay if FD take them out again if they don't work out (As people will have "paid" for them). Looking forward to large multicannons, although I suspect there are a number of newbies in sidewinders who won't enjoy them much.

All that said - the rest of 2.1 sounds brilliant. Looking forward to Radio chatter, engineers modifying modules and a much better bulletin board system is music to my ears as I'm an inveterate BB mission runner.
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Oh come on! Have you never watched Star Trek?
 

CMDR Corlas

CMDR Corlas
bitstorm said:
Can you first explain how a shield gets its energy from an internal source, once you've done that I'll explain how a shield gets its energy from an external source.
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No need, Machinewash's explanation is acceptable to me. I have no further sci-fi objections. :)

/I'll happily disagree all day long if I think something is disagreeable. As soon as I find a better explanation though, I'm just as happy to change my opinion. :)
 

Hagledesperado

Hagledesperado
I would probably have had an opinion about this if I had had any idea about how the physics of shields are supposed to work to begin with.
 

Gortron

Gortron
Hagledesperado said:
I would probably have had an opinion about this if I had had any idea about how the physics of shields are supposed to work to begin with.
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It is all about repelling nuclear forces. Shields exist in nature, the earths poles shield us from the charged particles the sun lobs at us. If a spacecraft had a positively charged weapon a positively charged shield would repel it.
 

Urbanski101

Urbanski101
I love the look of the new BB and missions - that looks far better than what we have and much more involved (as in feeling involved with the factions)...loving it.

As for the engineering mods - I think we've seen 4-5 in total so far and other than the concussion shot cannon (which does look quite cool) I really don't like them at all, healing lasers (OMG please no - space paladins), heat generating multi-cannon (er why? - no seriously why?) or anti SCB railguns (talk about specific - you can use them but only when there is a Y in the month and the geese are migrating and there is lavian brandy in your hold and you have to be flying backwards - really? - I don't think so). These are clearly all PvP weapons and very selective ones at that - maybe for those few who enjoy PvP in wings this will be great...I hope they are both happy :rolleyes:

It would have been nice to get some new toys and maybe, just maybe one or two out of the 30 or so mods might actually be useful for the majority, how about next update show us something that we can all use, like a thruster mod or a shield mod, you know something not totally PvP centric.

Still I can live without the mods or engineering tbh, I can see a pattern with what FD are trying to do with mods (*cough* PvP) and it doesn't really interest me, as long as the new BB and missions work...that will be a win.
 

CMDR Corlas

CMDR Corlas
I've no doubt this makes me boring, but as far as weapon mods go, I would have been happier with engineers doing things like increasing the cyclic rate on your minigun, making your cannon reload faster, or improving the cooling of your beam laser.

The ones we have are more "creative" sure, but... eh. /shrug

We'll see how it plays out. Maybe the more boring ones that I want are planned too, but they didn't think anyone was lame enough to be interested in 'em. :D
 

Urbanski101

Urbanski101
CMDR Corlas said:
I've no doubt this makes me boring, but as far as weapon mods go, I would have been happier with engineers doing things like increasing the cyclic rate on your minigun, making your cannon reload faster, or improving the cooling of your beam laser.

The ones we have are more "creative" sure, but... eh. /shrug

We'll see how it plays out. Maybe the more boring ones that I want are planned too, but they didn't think anyone was lame enough to be interested in 'em. :D
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Actually this is what I thought mods would be as well - incremental improvements to the gear we already have and I would have been more than happy with that. I guess FD want to create a whole set of PvP wing load out options for...er...oh...er...you know people who play wing v wing PvP.....thingy.
 

Noddie

N
Yep. Exactly that. It's not that it's not plausible, it's that it doesn't seem to sit alongside what we already know about elite very well and feels a little out of place. I, too, would be perfectly happy with just some nice enhancements to existing weapons. I'm looking forward to enhanced missiles and large multicannon, for example.
 

Archvillain

Archvillain
Do we have any idea on whether special modules crafted in Horizons 2.1 can be used in Elite 1.6?

(Apologies if this has been answered; I skipped some of the thread)

I'm assuming yes, because Open mixes and matches both users with each other AFAIK.
 
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