Make the Game a Bit Harder

[Draven Darken]

Yup . Fixed weapons are like a whole new game. They definitely have advantages though. At a distance they act like gimbals that can target and damage subsystems. For another they also ignore chaff. And of course as you say, they force you to really learn the flight mechanics.

I guess it is strange that I have only ever used fixed weapons for my primary weapons. When I briefly tried CQC, I was greatly disappointed by the fact that all of the default ships came with gimbaled weapons. My thought was "how is this supposed to prove that a pilot has any skills, when all you need to do is point your ship in the general direction of a target and pull the trigger?" I think CQC would be FAR more interesting if it was fought primarily or exclusively with fixed weapons.

I dunno ... maybe I should give in and start using gimbaled weapons in the main game. Maybe then I'd have been sitting in a Python or an FDL by now, rather than still using my Cobra Mk III ... but then again, I probably wouldn't have appreciated them as much as I expect to once I can get to one of them using my current approach.

 

[CMDR Muy Bien Gato]

I think gimballed weapons are useful, maybe even necessary, if you're playing with a gamepad though.

Using a flight stick is a totally different story.

 

[Drelthar]

I don't like the idea of modules selling at a reduced price. There are already SO many incentives not to move in E, yet that contradicts DB's vision as he says he wants players to be mobile and is disappointed how little they travel...well then give us incentive to move! Being able to re-sell modules at no loss is vital to the game IMO.

I travel a lot personally because I do missions and just random activities. But the reason people don't bother travelling is because there are really few differences between systems.

If it has a "hazrez " then... Well all of those are the same, endless spawns... Of random ships.

So, I get why people stay put. Why travel to another place, to find something you already found?

As I said, I move loads because I don't generally stick to doing on activity for more than a few minutes at a time. But yeah, if you just like "bounty hunting" or "trading" then moving is probably a waste of time.

 

[ilgello]

People that think harder equals to more grind, tells you a lot by the state of the game and the average skill of the gamers involved [where is it]

 

[Draven Darken]

I think gimballed weapons are useful, maybe even necessary, if you're playing with a gamepad though.

Using a flight stick is a totally different story.

True, I've only ever played the game with a full HOTAS. Can't even imagine trying to aim with a gamepad.

 

[Lunatic_Asylum]

Making a game artificially difficult is artificial. The game mechanics should provide for that. Why should i fly in a sidewinder in a has-res just to make it difficult.... i want to fly in my anaconda/corvette in a haz res and be intimidated and scared of losing my ship

Exactly! Difficulty and progression (it feels too fast sometimes) have to be addressed.

For example, when my friend discovered resource areas and showed me how to earn money there, I was so depressed by the ease of gaining credits that I gave up playing for a month. I reported that exploit to the forum, but the response was that it was an intended mechanic (?!?!) I just earned as much as in one day as I did by flying and trading in a month...

The first ships have to be increased in price at least threefold. I felt that jumping into an Adder was too fast. I have a feeling that high-tier ships like Anaconda need an increase in price too.

Someone was asking about levelling to the last ranks: I only work on the first 7, and it felt obnoxiously fast. You are probably right about the progression after some level, but at earlier levels, it is silly.

Therefore, some tweaks towards increased difficulty are necessary, as mentioned above, including disabled bulletin board missions change with the game mode change.


Playing any game with GamePad seems weird to me, but I have never had a console. I used a keyboard for six months and then a joystick.

 

[Slack]

Some good points on that list, unfortunately it more seems that FD is trying to make the "instant gratification" crowd happy. The game has gotten easier in every aspect over the last year and unfortunately I expect this pattern to continue into Engineers.

Its quite sad really, as I think the people that were originally interested in Elite, because it was difficult, with very slow progression, will slowly fall by the wayside. In just one year, the game went from 200hrs to get a Python, to about 10hrs. Thats a drastic change. If that trend continues for another year or two, ships will just take a few mins to acquire, or maybe they will just be free?

 

[Lunatic_Asylum]

Some good points on that list, unfortunately it more seems that FD is trying to make the "instant gratification" crowd happy. The game has gotten easier in every aspect over the last year and unfortunately I expect this pattern to continue into Engineers.

Its quite sad really, as I think the people that were originally interested in Elite, because it was difficult, with very slow progression, will slowly fall by the wayside. In just one year, the game went from 200hrs to get a Python, to about 10hrs. Thats a drastic change. If that trend continues for another year or two, ships will just take a few mins to acquire, or maybe they will just be free?

Thank you! I seriously hope that the Engineers update will only add extra content and difficulty layer and will not accelerate progression in any manner. Doing so would be plainly obtuse. Elite is a game mostly for those who play for the sense of effort and achievement.

 

[Eymerich]

I agree with making the game harder. One thing that would help is to nerf the server connections. If you can't connect, the game becomes harder. Fun stuff.

[big grin][haha]

 

[Miklos Atreides]

I agree with making the game harder. One thing that would help is to nerf the server connections. If you can't connect, the game becomes harder. Fun stuff.

No, MottiKahn, not that way harder...

But honestly if the game will reintroduce some things that will help to have a reasonable galaxy it would be good.
Starting with repair bills and fuel costs. make them according to the prices ( value of ship / damage, price of hydrogen).

Make Bounty hunting 4 weeks in the same HazRes obsolete to make bounty hunters hunt, not grind.
Miners should face that their palladium side will be exhausted after mining the same rock the 3rd time. (and mode switching doesn't help)
Traders might face prices can drop easily if an Anacoda dropps of 400t of stuff because market is now flooded with commodity.
Mission takers can still switch modes and stack missions but it will have no difference if they do or not.

Those things would help a lot to feel the galaxy has a logic that it follows. Today its a little twisted.

Regards,
Miklos

 

[CMDR Ellegon]

After playing the game for a year (1-3 hours per week maximum), I cannot be happy enough about it! However, there is no limit to perfection, and here is the list of what I would like to see:

* reduced income for killed ships. Make the payments proportional to the damage inflicted;
* some enemy ships refuse to fight and fly in a straight line around you;
* increased price for some ships. Some ships feel like 3-10 times cheaper than they should be;
* decrease progression among ranks. I spent only a couple of evenings after 12-hour work shifts and gained 1 level easily in a faction!
* decrease price for sold installed units. Let players choose it with wisdom;
* change prices at stations more regularly so that third-party tools cannot track routes for you. You will need to buy information from others or stations.
* the new update, hopefully, will bring missions that are much harder as you climb the ranks. I seriously hope about it.

Elite and David, [heart] we love you! You managed to create a game that appeals to casual players like me and yet be complex!

Sure, let us discourage new and casual players all together by making the game harder with every release. Not.

 

[Leper Messiah]

Making a game artificially difficult is artificial. The game mechanics should provide for that. Why should i fly in a sidewinder in a has-res just to make it difficult.... i want to fly in my anaconda/corvette in a haz res and be intimidated and scared of losing my ship

The thing is why should I have to play a game too difficult because of what you want, I have no choice whatsoever , you do.





On a side note, do people NOT have self control nowadays, if there's a game exploit DON'T USE IT then moan how it made progression too easy.....jeez.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Solution: go exploring. Most of your les seem to be about payout being too high, not lack of skill based activities.

Wait, this forum censores n i g g l e ? I get what the word looks like, but really.

 

[Daffan]

Start talking about nerfing Robigo and about 100 people come at you with pitchforks.

 

[Sylow]

Yes, i fully agree that the game has to be made much harder. After all, i rcently showed the game to a friend, he found it rather hard for a new player and i couldn't convince him to join me in this game. He's not a beginner to space games, he has the Star Citicen stuff and he does well enough in the little which already exists at that game, but he found even the handling of spaceships here to be a chore, thanks to the limited yaw.

So indeed, we must make it even much harder. After all, we already have reaped all the advantages of the game being easier, when the AI still was much weaker than it was today, not to mention that it will get stronger again in the next patch. We have taken advantage fo all that and we have spent endless hours in the game to practice our skills, so now it has to be made harder, to keep the newbies and scrubs out.

Admittedly, doing so is foolis from an econimical point of view, but hey, if the game and company die in a while, it doesn't matter, at least we can say that we were to tough and could handle the game no matter how hard it was made. We just have to hope that nobody notices that we got a massive headstart in those times when things were still easier.

Sounds like a reasonable request.

PS: This posting might contain traces of sarcasm.


Now the part without sarcasm: i think i represent a minority in this forum. I have bought the lifetime expansion pack and i am interested in this game being good and alive for a long time to come. I don't play every evening now, but rather play one evening a week, and in the long run this might even be less. At the same time i hope that i can return to this game for years to come.

In contrast, i feel that there's a vocal group here, who wants the game to be harder and harder, which for them makes sense as both their ship as well as their skill (they practice the game every day) increase a lot. They do not mind that this costs the game the rest of accessibility, kills it's chance to acquire new players and thus wrecks its surviviability in the long run. Of course, for them this does not matter, as they will move on to SC or any other game in a while.

 

[Clicker]

Some people find the game too hard...some find it too easy...mostly the folk who enjoy the game find it challenging but enjoyable.

Sounds a bit like a Bell curve there!

Those people who find it too easy rank up to admiral/King, are elite in all three disciplines and have $10billion+ as a balance...what do they now play for?

For me (I'm one of those in the middle of the bell curve), I'm happy to continue plying the game as often as I can (which isn't often enough) and enjoying every minute. For me personally, there's lots to do and a long way to go...and I haven't tried everything yet!

I'm happy with the challenge as it is....if it gets harder...meh...if it gets easier...maybe not so much....more things to do...bring it! I'm here for the long haul.

Clicker

 

[Sylow]

Some people find the game too hard...some find it too easy...mostly the folk who enjoy the game find it challenging but enjoyable.

Sounds a bit like a Bell curve there!

Those people who find it too easy rank up to admiral/King, are elite in all three disciplines and have $10billion+ as a balance...what do they now play for?

For me (I'm one of those in the middle of the bell curve), I'm happy to continue plying the game as often as I can (which isn't often enough) and enjoying every minute. For me personally, there's lots to do and a long way to go...and I haven't tried everything yet!

I'm happy with the challenge as it is....if it gets harder...meh...if it gets easier...maybe not so much....more things to do...bring it! I'm here for the long haul.

Clicker

The point i tried to make is not so much about "easy" or "hard". But many of those "make it harder" suggestions are murderous for accessibilty. And a game which is not accessible for anybody who has not played for a long time already can (and will) only loose players, without getting any new ones. This is a guarantee for disaster and death.

If a suggestion would be like "create new content, which you need at least an A-graded FDL to stand any chance, it gives little financial rewards but is very prestigeous to complete", i would be all for it. But as long as the suggestions are like "make everything harder and create hell for any new player", i think we are on the wrong way.

 

[Spinell]

stuff

You are confusing "harder" with "taking more time".

If your boss reduces your salary by 50%. What do you say to him?:

"Boss, why did you reduce my pay?"

or

"Boss, my work is suddenly 50% harder"

 

[Von Shadow]

Saying blanket statement like game has to be harder is trivial..... but what should exist is the challenge, difficulty, threat (and the relavent rewards that go with that) for those that want to seek it out
And no - i don't mean people just suggesting that i fly a haz-res in a stock sidewinder.... thats fake and pointless.
There should be some real PvE 'No Go Alone' regions ... darker corners of systems around pirate bases and hostile / anarchy systems which can give a broadcast message from the nav-beacon saying 'Beware - Hostilities await'

 

[Miklos Atreides]

The point i tried to make is not so much about "easy" or "hard". But many of those "make it harder" suggestions are murderous for accessibilty. And a game which is not accessible for anybody who has not played for a long time already can (and will) only loose players, without getting any new ones. This is a guarantee for disaster and death.

If a suggestion would be like "create new content, which you need at least an A-graded FDL to stand any chance, it gives little financial rewards but is very prestigeous to complete", i would be all for it. But as long as the suggestions are like "make everything harder and create hell for any new player", i think we are on the wrong way.

For most of us its not about creating hell for other players. Its almost every time an attempt to get back to a more consistent experience.
If you can get trading ELITE within a few weeks by insane profits, or making millions per hour in a Haz Res Bounty Hunt it doesn't feel right.

There have been a couple of tweaks that bring new pilots to big ships with lots of money in an express way and hopefully they don't wonder
why these guys complaining its so boring.

Elite wasn't and isn't a game concept that will work for players who change games twice a quarter. Its for those who intend to be here still in 5 years.
As a conclusion decelerating the ways you climb the ladder in favor of a consistent and believable galaxy is a not so bad idea even if this means to
cut some paths to El Dorado.

Regards,
Miklos