Ship loss feels so meaningless

[Crimson Kaim]

So I managed to lose my Corvette (and previously my FAS too) in a 5v1 against the doggy crew (SDC). PvP is my favourite part of this game as many probably know and so does it involve losing your ship.

But I have to say that a ship loss feels meaningless and somewhat boring. I just click the rebuy button as I am a smart person and do not fly a ship without enough credits for a couple of rebuy (/s) and immediately respawn. My 32 million credits go for the insurance company and they instantly give me back my ship 1:1 how it was outfitted.

This feels meaningless. The credits don't hurt when one has already billions in assets and even though I have stored below 100 million credits in the bank (which means I can only afford up to three rebuys for my Vette) it really doesn't hurt at all. See I somehow got to the point where I can fully A grade a Corvette so I will be able to do 5% of this work again.

To counter this feelign of a worthless feature I have been thinking about a repair frame where a ship can not be used after a ship loss. During this time the insurance company simply rebuilds your ship which may take a couple of days (one hasn't got to be online in the meantime). It should make a ship loss actually more meaningful. This also allows for more variation in the insurance system.
For example a player could choose between a 99% cover and upon a ship loss the player has to wait a couple of weeks (for those who do not own billions of credits in assets) or a another offer of 90% where the repair frame is tremendously faster and only 3 days are needed or less (depending on the seize of the ship maybe?).

But the point is that, as it stands now, it really doesn't influence anything. Neither me nor anyone. I just instantly respawn and keep on going with my business. And I have to say I lost a little motivation for PvP here. Sure I have known previously that dying isn't exactly an influencal act apart from the powerplay kills where one could deny alot of merits but rebuying one of the most expensive ships without a feeling of "You did something wrong here." is kind of odd.

So implementing a time frame for repairs/rebuilds upon ship loss (maybe a tiny time frame for repairs as well? 5% hull left and going for repairs could take a while, how about an hour or so?) might offer more for those who are short on credits and for those like me who feel that a ship loss is meaningless.


Thoughts or other ideas?

 

[CMDR Argent Steel]

Actually having a waiting period while your ship is rebuilt makes sense to me. I kind of think it's a good idea.

Probably belongs on the suggestion forum though.

 

[Scal]

If anything, insurance cost + loss of cargo/bonds/data is too steep for most people. The stakes are too high to risk flying in open or engaging in casual pvp. For most people, loss of a ship is loss of around 4 hrs play time - that could be 2 evenings of progress. For explorers the stakes are much much higher than that.

It could be suggested that you played to the point that money is no object, and now you want to pull up the ladder behind you.

 

[KevinMillican]

Well you saved enough credits to put yourself in this situation. Buy and outfit some ships so that you have only just enough credits for your insurance, and then you'll feel like the majority of players when you lose it.

 

[bitstorm]

Isn't a repair frame with a few days downtime while your ship's rebuilt just moving the problem around?

I mean given lots of us are credit rich (which was your point)...

If I lose say a Corvette, I just go buy another one while my first is being rebuilt. No impact.

The proposed solution doesn't seem to make much difference?

 

[the100thmonkey]

Thoughts or other ideas?

You choose to engage in an aspect of the game that is ultimately meaningless by design.

The issue with adding delays to rebuilds on death is that it will affect the game of people who don't particularly care for PvP and were not looking for it when they died. Such a delay will also affect people running missions and the like.

Basically, you do something meaningless and are asking for it to affect people who don't.

 

[Cliffson]

The game should have been hardcore from the beginning, with some unlockable respawns (about the level of kickstarter rewards, get compentant in combat unlock an eagle restart etc, nothing to serious) and maybe a separate solo/group save for people to play around in with non serious repurcussions . Then ship loss would be meaningful, plus then when you see an elite annaconda you'd think, "Wow this guy must be good" and not, "I wonder if this one actually knows how to fly"

(they should probably cut the grind time a bit though)

 

[KevinMillican]

The silver bullet in the OP suggestion is that not everyone has more than one ship; seriously suggesting that people can't play at all for a while if they lose it?

 

[MickyG1982]

See, in the earlier Elite games it was all about Ironman mode, if you died in space there was no rebuy, that was it, game over, you went straight back to the beginning of the game (or your last save if you remembered). The only way round this was to buy an expensive escape module which, once it's saved your life, will take you to the nearest station and get swapped out for a basic eagle.

Could you imagine how much whining and logging would happen if this feature were retained in ED...

It's bad enough now with the option of rebuying your ship!

 

[Querty Out]

Not sure how that would work. If you don't have another ship in the same station then you basically locked yourself out of the game for a bit. PVP itself needs to get some meaning (PVP faction wars, PVP missions, etc.) then you have something else to lose, not just the ship.

 

[Crimson Kaim]

If anything, insurance cost + loss of cargo/bonds/data is too steep for most people. The stakes are too high to risk flying in open or engaging in casual pvp. For most people, loss of a ship is loss of around 4 hrs play time - that could be 2 evenings of progress. For explorers the stakes are much much higher than that.

It could be suggested that you played to the point that money is no object, and now you want to pull up the ladder behind you.

If you would have read all of my post would would find that I am also talking about a 99% cover but at a cost which offers less credit heavy insurance bills because I know that I may not need credits but others do.

Please do not post comments if you want to talk about a problem I have already covered, thanks

 

[Jankules]

Lousing my ship is not meanless for me at. All,even at my a rated cutter and my momental 1.8 bil. Bank status i dont feel good at rebuy screen with 50MIL off my account,because its hard earned money.About insurence company,they have every ship and config on ready,no need for hours,days waiting.

 

[Bomba Luigi]

Introducing "Please do nothing and wait for half an hour" waiting times doesn't sound good in my Ears, not sure what would be the point in that. There are more then enough Time-eater in ED already. Also I'm pretty sure nobody is gonna rebuild your blown up ship, that would be kinda silly, they just give you a replacment.

Maybe there coiuld be done something about the spawn points, if you get blown up in a Corvette you only get respawned in a Station where there are corvettes available to replace yours or something like that, dunno. But throwing in more waiting times would be nothing else but annoying.
Also not sure how that can make PvP worse? Changing respawn mechanics does not change the PvP battle itself one tiny bit.

 

[Gedemon]

The silver bullet in the OP suggestion is that not everyone has more than one ship; seriously suggesting that people can't play at all for a while if they lose it?

Insurance should provide a free sidewinder while the other ship is repaired.

 

[Raven38911]

I like the idea, but I would not make the times as long as you suggest. Days of weeks are much to hardcore for the average player. Maybe half an hour would be enough already.

You have to think of

• new players, who may be frustated
• players with little time, who have taken a day off just to play the game.

 

[KevinMillican]

Insurance should provide a free sidewinder while the other ship is repaired.

To do what in exactly?
Even if you have only progressed to a Cobra, there's not much worthwhile to do in a sidey for an hour, and if you have loads of cash, then you're just going to buy another ship.

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See, in the earlier Elite games it was all about Ironman mode, if you died in space there was no rebuy, that was it, game over, you went straight back to the beginning of the game (or your last save if you remembered). The only way round this was to buy an expensive escape module which, once it's saved your life, will take you to the nearest station and get swapped out for a basic eagle.

Actually the escape pod came equipped with insurance so that you would get a new Cobra with exactly the same loadout. All you lost was the cargo.

 

[frostypaw]

It could be suggested that you played to the point that money is no object, and now you want to pull up the ladder behind you.

It may not feel like it but this isn't all wrong....

The thing is you're playing a different game to a lot of people - it exists in the same galaxy but places such different value on things that it can be like the two groups are speaking different languages.

For those 'playing' the game there's buckets of cash and no fear of losing ship it's all just little battles and events that are essentially meaningless as there's always next fight and any ship losses just mean a flight from the station back to the fight, and billions in the bank from using all the tricks.

The other group who are just playing the game see it differently where a ship loss can be severely traumatic - months of play can go down the drain, weeks of only getting a few hours in here and there up in smoke and back to that rebuy screen to start from scratch

So it all depends on perspective - with that wealth you've ended up in an odd place compared to many, be wary of suggesting the world should shape itself to a few.

 

[ever]

From my point of view a delay would be in order, once you are engaged in a Role Playing combat. If you go to an enemy HQ for example and you get blown up by security forces, it is not fair you are back in 2 minutes. Or you are in a wing fight, one wingman dies and he comes back to the same fight. I suggested some time ago that you should re-spawn at a chosen station. You can change your home station at intervals.

 

[Gedemon]

To do what in exactly?

Go and get another ship for old players, fly again without waiting for new players.

 

[xondk]

Thoughts or other ideas?

Well...it is a 'rich person' problem really, if you can afford the rebuy, then the punishment is not that bad, and with those that have billions can be entirely trivial.

Could it be improved somehow? it is a good punishment currently, and heck it is currently risk enough that people try to avoid other commanders in open, and aren't communicating that great in it either because of risk of loss, so in terms of risk I'd say it is a good one, maybe even a bit too much for some, since it can cramp interactions (you know, other then blow person up)

Making it 'more' punishing with wait and such might not be a great idea, because it punishes those that do not have as much money significantly more, it would lets face it also make it possible for people to significantly easier grief others.
So yeah, I don't think that is an ideal situation..

A possible work with it though, could be making it so insurance can only provide certain things depending on how rich and such the system is.
It would for example always be able to provide you hull with the fsd, powerplant and such that you had, but you might not be able to find all your internals and weapons, instead of those you'd be given a voucher, where you then would need to find said weapon again and claim it for free with said voucher, this would add a downtime, but a down time you could work with, you'd be out and doing something namely piecing your ship together again.

I think this way would feel meaningful, as long as you got the powerplant/bulkhead/fsd/thrusters and such instantly as current? and wouldn't keep you from playing the game, and it kinda would make sense you know realism/lore wise, that not everyone has everything, but that insurance companies would have you know, stuff to get you moving ready at their locations, but maybe not specific internal modules and weapons.