Silent running... M.A.D.

[Bran Tse Mallory]

Welcome CMDR's,

We are all aware of the current PvP trend towards silent running ships and how the inventive PvP crowd have no other choice but to play this way well it's madness.

Today on submarines and expanding into other ares of use we have very good M.A.D. systems (Magnetic Anomaly Detector). It seems to me that we need these as a module within the game to help render silent ships useless (EDIT Possibly the wrong word, think of this as more of a counter measure towards SR).

http://www.cae.com/uploadedFiles/Co...ty/Media_Centre/Document/datasheet.MAD-XR.pdf

Discuss but as always please keep it clean and civil.

 

[Ian Skippy]

I am not in favor of anything that makes a mechanic useless. How about this: in Google Maps there is a blue circle that increases as gps connection decreases. Something similar could work here: the more stealthy, the less certain the ship is if your location.

 

[bamber]

Welcome CMDR's,

We are all aware of the current PvP trend towards silent running ships and how the inventive PvP crowd have no other choice but to play this way well it's madness.

Today on submarines and expanding into other ares of use we have very good M.A.D. systems (Magnetic Anomaly Detector). It seems to me that we need these as a module within the game to help render silent ships useless.

http://www.cae.com/uploadedFiles/Co...ty/Media_Centre/Document/datasheet.MAD-XR.pdf

Discuss but as always please keep it clean and civil.

Magnetic anomaly detectors work by noting very small changes in the magnetic field of the planet. magnetic fields are only going to be found around iron cores

the aircraft also has to be exceptionally close to the submarine to spot it

 

[Han Brannigan]

Discuss but as always please keep it clean and civil.

No thanks - that would make it impossible to smuggle ( well other then with the full boost ahead method )

 

[WizzyThing]

I am not in favor of anything that makes a mechanic useless. How about this: in Google Maps there is a blue circle that increases as gps connection decreases. Something similar could work here: the more stealthy, the less certain the ship is if your location.

In a well balanced game there should always be something that can beat something else (Rock-Paper-Scissors principle).

Imo silent running has no game mechanic to counter it and every game mechanic should have a counter mechanic, that is what keeps a game fun, otherwise everyone will just use that one mechanic and the game becomes boring.

 

[micky1984]

Welcome CMDR's,

We are all aware of the current PvP trend towards silent running ships and how the inventive PvP crowd have no other choice but to play this way well it's madness.

Today on submarines and expanding into other ares of use we have very good M.A.D. systems (Magnetic Anomaly Detector). It seems to me that we need these as a module within the game to help render silent ships useless.

http://www.cae.com/uploadedFiles/Co...ty/Media_Centre/Document/datasheet.MAD-XR.pdf

Discuss but as always please keep it clean and civil.

I am an ex royal navy submariner of 23 years service and i can tell you this we were never detected by an aircraft or a helo by passive means MAD howerver if close enough its possible and a sonar dipping helo has a better chance but it also lets the Submarine know its position aswell.

 

[Deadspin]

Magnetic anomaly detectors work by noting very small changes in the magnetic field of the planet. magnetic fields are only going to be found around iron cores

the aircraft also has to be exceptionally close to the submarine to spot it

M.A.D. ruled out in two posts. That's a new record.

We could always petition FDev to improve sensors though. The whole idea of the range on the current sensors being limited to a few KM is pretty silly.

 

[MagicTofu]

Using silent running already requires to sacrifice the benefit of shields entirely. Giving modules to make it completely useless will only reduce the number of viable ways to fight, which is a bad thing in my opinion.

Maybe the advantage it confers needs balancing, maybe a ship needs to be more easily targettable when it uses its weapons when in silence running, but I don't think there should be a way to completely negate its advantages.

 

[Wasp0]

Welcome CMDR's,

We are all aware of the current PvP trend towards silent running ships and how the inventive PvP crowd have no other choice but to play this way well it's madness.

Today on submarines and expanding into other ares of use we have very good M.A.D. systems (Magnetic Anomaly Detector). It seems to me that we need these as a module within the game to help render silent ships useless.

http://www.cae.com/uploadedFiles/Co...ty/Media_Centre/Document/datasheet.MAD-XR.pdf

Discuss but as always please keep it clean and civil.

Here Here Sir! With you on the MAD 100%

 

[WizzyThing]

Well, you'd explicitly need to buy a module for better detection of silent runners which may require more power or something like that.

 

[Bran Tse Mallory]

I am not in favor of anything that makes a mechanic useless. How about this: in Google Maps there is a blue circle that increases as gps connection decreases. Something similar could work here: the more stealthy, the less certain the ship is if your location.

Good suggestion. It would of course need balancing hence the request to discuss

Magnetic anomaly detectors work by noting very small changes in the magnetic field of the planet. magnetic fields are only going to be found around iron cores

the aircraft also has to be exceptionally close to the submarine to spot it

We are within a stars field also known as the heliosphere (Mods please add this word to the dictionary!) as such it is not a huge leap to adapt (in the next 1,000 years) the technology to detect objects within it. H.A.D. as opposed to M.A.D.

No thanks - that would make it impossible to smuggle ( well other then with the full boost ahead method )

But as you point out, there would still be a way to do this and maybe you smugglers need to come up with some kind of shielding to protect your cargo.

 

[Majinvash]

There is nothing wrong with silent running it SHOULD have a place in the game.
We have used it since the start of the game, as a way to make yourself harder to kill if your shields dropped.

The issue is that it is now mated with OP HRP that make your ship stronger than a shielded equivalent* and HEAT SINKS that keep your ship icy cold while you spam rails and boost all over the shop! ( *in most configurations )

If they fixed that, then silent running would be a choice with its advantages and more importantly drawbacks.

Same way with shields if you want to keep them strong you have to take pips away from weapons or engines

Majinvash
The Voice of OPen

 

[Forlorn]

There's a big difference between modifying a mechanic to bring it in line with its intended use, and making it "useless".

Personally, I think activating all powered heat sinks/chaff launchers is the way to do the former. And I'm not interested in the later.

 

[Goose4291]

Depends.. are you going to allow for degassing type equipment that can limit such equipments effectiveness, or hull compositions that completely negate it, like the Israeli's field?

 

[Rubbernuke]

The answer is to radically overhaul how sensors work.

Depending on the size of ship and the rating of the sensor:

My weapons are more resistant to chaff

Stealth ships have to be further away to avoid detection and remain unresolved

If this happened it would balance stealth mechanics out. Larger sensors already suck up juice, and you could buy sensor packages or upgrades to look for certain things maybe. One could have longer range but have poor resolution, while another might be unjammable st the cost of high power use.

 

[CMDR-Bullsey]

silent running is an inherent part of the game and a legitimate tactic and should be left as is

 

[Bran Tse Mallory]

There is nothing wrong with silent running it SHOULD have a place in the game.
We have used it since the start of the game, as a way to make yourself harder to kill if your shields dropped.

The issue is that it is now mated with OP HRP that make your ship stronger than a shielded equivalent* and HEAT SINKS that keep your ship icy cold while you spam rails and boost all over the shop! ( *in most configurations )

If they fixed that, then silent running would be a choice with its advantages and more importantly drawbacks.

Same way with shields if you want to keep them strong you have to take pips away from weapons or engines

Majinvash
The Voice of OPen

Thanks for the input, your opinion is welcomed on this as you are one of the vocal PvP players.

I agree that silent running should have a place in the game, a balanced one. Perhaps the detector would be able to 'see' the heat sink as a hot object making you visible for a few seconds on the players radar?

Depends.. are you going to allow for degassing type equipment that can limit such equipments effectiveness, or hull compositions that completely negate it, like the Israeli's field?

Good ideas, as with any mechanic such as silent running there would be a technology race associated with it which could well lead to new expensive hull types. Maybe the ECM could also have an ECCM variant that fools the MAD/HAD.

There would need to have a counter to it so as to keep SR viable for smugglers and PvP players to an extent as opposed to the blanket invisibility that it offers now.

 

[Majinvash]

Just so you all know.

Turrets ignore SR when you set them to fire at will

Majinvash
The Voice of Open

 

[TheGrimCorsair]

There is nothing wrong with silent running it SHOULD have a place in the game.
We have used it since the start of the game, as a way to make yourself harder to kill if your shields dropped.

The issue is that it is now mated with OP HRP that make your ship stronger than a shielded equivalent* and HEAT SINKS that keep your ship icy cold while you spam rails and boost all over the shop! ( *in most configurations )

If they fixed that, then silent running would be a choice with its advantages and more importantly drawbacks.

Same way with shields if you want to keep them strong you have to take pips away from weapons or engines

Majinvash
The Voice of OPen

So basically, reduce the HP that HRP's give, reduce the RoF on Railguns (either down time between or increase and increase heat to compensate while also increasing ammo capacity, reduce the effectiveness of heatsinks a bit in conjunction with lowering the heat generated by higher-end SCB's (dependent mostly on how big a nerf , and introduce a detection penalty for firing while Silent Running. Good talk.

 

[danubezoe]

M.A.D - not the Mutually Assured Destruction ??

If you want to counter one Build being OP, think Rock, Paper, Scissors. There should always be a counter to a build.
If running with M.A.D sensors: SR ships is Visible but Shielded ships is harder to spot/lock on to.

It's not much complaining about mirrored/ reactive armor since the advantages are balanced. The problem with SR
is that there is imbalance between these and other builds.

Cheers
DZ