It does, your eyes and the overheating nature of silent running.
Silent running... M.A.D.
- Thread starter Bran Tse Mallory
- Start date
It does, your eyes and the overheating nature of silent running.
Majinvash
Banned
There is a lot more to high level PVP than simply shields.
You have to have DPS and manoeuvrability, or you are just a sitting SCB popper. You also have to get out of the mindset of 1v1's, they very rarely happen any more in the wild.
A Corvette can sit and tank a couple of FDL's, what it cannot do is move around enough and return enough fire. Because it has to sit with 4 pips to shields.
Conversely, at the same time the silent running FDL can fire everything it has and boost around like a crazy person.
Move this to full wings and large ships are just dead if they hang around. While they nip back at the aggressors.
If a full wing of Corvettes took on a wing of SR FDL's. I would be more confident the FDL's; would/could get more kills than the Corvettes. ( Before everyone ran out of ammo )
There is literally NO downside to silent running.
People will say you can target modules. This is true IF you are the person being shot at, others are shooting roughly in the right area and hope for the best.
Majinvash
The Voice of Open
Last edited:
Smokescreens?
Yep, agree with much of this.. generally when I face a wing of SR in my big ship I rely entirely on MC turrets.. In fact it calls to mind a certain encounter where I was one of said FDLs when you jumped in with your frag Corvette ;-) Thinking back to that encounter though, your only issue was that you had no medium ship support. I don't know how many active banks you had on that thing but you were attempting to tank against a bunch of rail-de-lances unsupported. It might have been a different story if you'd have been in a mixed wing. In my experience what happens then is that people leave the big ships alone because they're time consuming to kill and then you get a free reign to attack the silent runners.
I like mixed wing fights, and generally I feel more comfortable in a wing fight in a big ship than a silent FDLs.. Silent FDLs are a pain and require constant heat management to prevent from frying yourself..
Last edited:
Maybe have heat sinks drain more sys. The only big upside is being able to weight the pips... outside of ganking newbs easier.
But Majin, you agree that 1v1 shields win every time right (similar skill level on CMDRs) right? Even 2v2. This is where the balance debate gets a bit tricky to me.
Not trying to bruise egos, but I feel like most of these anti-stealth posts, like the OP's, are from people who really just need to practice more. I get that shielded boats can get focused more easily in big wing fights, but it really isn't that hard to do the same thing to a stealth boat unless you're talking 8v8. And even then you could contend that it's a wing communication/ training issue.
My questions to all these anti-stealth advocates would be: 1) You realize that outside of large wing fights shields are better right? 2) To any of the experienced folks who are agreeing that stealth could use a nerf - have you ever gone into a large wing fight where everyone in your wing is shielded? I feel like the shield boats really only get beat down badly when you are the lone shield boat in a wing of stealth boats. I know this is when I get down on my shielded loadouts. And I think this is skewing the argument badly.
If you have problems fighting silent runners I think is about time you give up fighting and choose a different profession, 1v1 a shield tank Cmdr knowing what he is doing should beat any silent runner 9 out of 10 especially if said Cmdr knows how to use fix MCs. Now if you are referring to wing fights well I suggest to drop your shields and learn how to use rails, or PA to stay competitive. The top PvP players know how to change loadouts depending on the situation.
I agree with this. Weapons fire should mitigate silent running on the basis that you are making active emissions. Silent running is an attempt to minimize your emissions to make you less visible to scanners, commonly referred to as Emissions Control (EmCon).
Any sort of weapon fire is not designed with stealth in mind. Energy weapons are an active electro-magnetic discharge, and bullets aren't designed to be stealthy in that spectrum.
Once you stop firing, EmCon would reassert itself.
Perhaps if ship mass from armour had a slightly more significant impact a ships maneuverability a number of ship balancing issues would be addressed. I would make the choice of flying a hull tanked, shieldless ship more of a compramise and it would no longer be the only viable choice for serious PvP. It seems to me at this point serious PvP has been reduced to silent running a FAS.
Majinvash
Banned
1v1 depends on the build. Lets talk only FDL here because a shielded FAS is terrible.
The 1v1 shielded ship has an advantage because it can target the silent running ship as its being shot at. If you are fighting 1v1 in a SR Hull tank, don't bother turning on silent running. Makes almost zero difference.
The shielded ship can put 4 pips to shields, fly backwards and target a module. Seeing as most SR don't bother with chaff. Its less skill and more game mechanics.
2 v 2, I would put money on the silent running ships being able to burst down the shields on one of the others and kill it and then focus on the last ship, before the shielded ships can do the same.
3+ SR All the way.
Majinvash
The Voice of Open
Last edited:
As a veteran PVPer, the main problem I see with silent running is that it's hard to follow in recordings. Shielded ships can be easily targeted, and once targeted you can see their hull %, shield bars, and any hits on the target. silent runners can be hard to spot, and you have to spend time looking for the ship outline, not to mention it can be hard to tell whether the target is even taking damage or not. This means that when silent ships fight oftentimes the audience is pretty confused as to what is actually happening.
sone extra UI could really help this problem. Maybe there should be a way to target silent runners, even if just for a second or two (I'm talking about past the usual 600m range)
sone extra UI could really help this problem. Maybe there should be a way to target silent runners, even if just for a second or two (I'm talking about past the usual 600m range)
Good idea
- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -
Thats actually a pretty damn good suggestion. Anyone who argues against this suggestion obviously has some rather nasty intentions
While I am not into PvP I do not think that completely renmoving sth is the way to go.
Interesting - it's actually the other way round, pretty much, in real life, as the MAD range would provide a position that was accurate enough to ensure the weapon (torpedo) would find the target close enough to acquire. I do know from personal experience of ONE occasion where MAD gave a valid contact on a submarine without any other cueing having occurred, but I have to be honest...it was a complete fluke! Normally the MAD would be used to localise a target detected by other sensors, such as passive sonobuoys.
As far as the game goes MAD is just being used as an example, not a suggestion that MAD itself be modelled - the mention of Spock modifying torpedoes to chase down the exhausted gases of a target also, strangely enough, has a real life example from the anti submarine warfare field, and was known as Autolycus. Truth is sometimes at least as strange as fiction....
Dave
No ego to bruise as I have never faced one of these stealth ships, I have only read about them. What I saw was a mechanic that had little to no counter in the current state and figured why not ask about this kind of detection.
My PvP experience in ED is next to zero. Perhaps I should do some rare trading around Lave to see if that changes...
Sounds like you have far to much fun in work!
I understand what your saying as this was raised earlier, as we are within the heliosphere of the star and already have detectors able to detect everything within it then could it not be possible to have a version that detects 'objects' in a local area close to the ship - an evolution of MAD if you like.
Last edited:
Good point about the magnetic field.
On the latter point, aircraft can deploy buoy sensors for MAD. I guess something similar would be an option for counter-stealth sensors - deploy sensor buoys once you're attacked by a stealthy ship, and if it flies within a certain range of them it's "lit up" and can be targeted.
It wouldn't be MAD though, perhaps passive thermal/EM or (active) radar?
Activate silent running - which in effect shuts all cooling vents - so ... make it retract your weapons too ? (Similar to ST-Cloaking)
Mark I Eyeball works wonders.
Hah. I guess it makes sense, some heat is likely to escape through open weapons hardpoints, and the weapons themselves are likely to be very hot.
Maybe cover the cockpit too when in silent running, so while in silent running you can only see a thermal images.