You can kill any small ship with a frag from 200m in 1s... I get what your saying but I think the circumstances where torpedoes actually work are already miniscule.
Conclusive undeniable proof that HRP are not over powered. Return of the Torpedo Boat pt3
- Thread starter Majinvash
- Start date
You can kill any small ship with a frag from 200m in 1s... I get what your saying but I think the circumstances where torpedoes actually work are already miniscule.
Not quite. It'll do a ton of damage, sure, but an instant kill is not likely.
Plus flying evasively, even up close, can lower the accuracy and reduce the damage significantly.
I like frags as a counter to small ships because they take skill, (or can be countered by chaff) and you're not isnta-gibbed
The reason torpedos don't work often is because the ships they are most effective on (small ships) are rare. If a counter is rare, it's not because it needs a buff, it's because its target is also rare
Majinvash
Banned
I am a little lost what you mean...
They aren't balanced... My video just showed that.... A small ship running HRP is able to survive quite happily a volley of torps that in the previous version would just about wreck a Battleconda.
That was a 90k 1 trick pony shot.... 6 Torps should wreak just about anything without a shield in the game! ( If you manage to hit them )
I know you love your Viper, truly.. I love mine too... While I can outfly and survive fighting Cutters and Corvettes in mine, I am under no illusion that I will ever get the shields down on a decent build even with a bad pilot.
But if I was fighting someone and I saw he had torps, I know how I would then start controlling the fight and what I would be doing if my shields started to fail.
*edit. Alex, I am not asking for a buff on Torpedos, I am asking for a balance of how HRP work. HRP are the issue here, I do not think there has been any nerf to torp strength of late. If there has, I missed it in the patch notes. That is one thing I always look for.
Majinvash
The Voice of Open
Last edited:
Lets be real here Majin if you were in battle with somebody and you knew they had torps you'd relax because you won already, its like seeing somebody with mines equipped
My view torps should be slow but large damage aka big ship killer with low ammo count now if it happens to hit a medium or small you should well be near enough dust.
Missiles, guided missles should be primarily designed to down smaller vessels or knocking out larger vessels externals for the pack hounds.
Dumbires should be their for getting past ecm and point defence.
An activation time would be interesting. Higher speeds and working counter measures.
Missiles, guided missles should be primarily designed to down smaller vessels or knocking out larger vessels externals for the pack hounds.
Dumbires should be their for getting past ecm and point defence.
An activation time would be interesting. Higher speeds and working counter measures.
Sad. The reason why they suck, is probably because FD thinks (and does right by doing so) that in combat torpedoes will always be shot from point blank range, allowing them to bypass point defence weapons of target. And so, buffing torpedo damage would only make things worse.
The way i see it, they can tweak torpedoes, so that they are incredibly fast, but cannot do sharp maneuvers like missiles, and they deal a really good amount of damage over small blast radius, making it a perfect weapon for sniping out fleeing enemy thrusters... This way they will be an opposite of missiles (somewhat slow, but agile and do average damage with big splash).
The way i see it, they can tweak torpedoes, so that they are incredibly fast, but cannot do sharp maneuvers like missiles, and they deal a really good amount of damage over small blast radius, making it a perfect weapon for sniping out fleeing enemy thrusters... This way they will be an opposite of missiles (somewhat slow, but agile and do average damage with big splash).
Or only let torps lock onto medium and large ships. If people truly mean they will never use them against small ships, then that should be enough.
Of course, some players won't be happy until every weapon in the game is a one shot kill to everything.
Majinvash
Banned
Lets be real here Majin if you were in battle with somebody and you knew they had torps you'd relax because you won already, its like seeing somebody with mines equipped
Depends on the ship I am in, the only HRP build I run is my FDL. Everything else is "traditional" ( bar the time I was trolling Z4.Mafia with my silent running dual gimbled c3 cannon vulture! I never died FYI, it had chaff too ).
- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -
That's the thing, torpedoes DON'T suck! They are awesome!
Slow, hard to make hit in most situations and powerful.
Just HRP's are more powerfulererer
Majinvash
The Voice of Open
You were in a small ship against a small ship. Since hulltanking is the only viable strategy for small ships, if the torps 1 shot kill a same sized vessel, there'd be no reason to run anything else.
Personally i think doing 66% damage in 1 shot is already pretty damn good
- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -
I'm not disputing that HRPs are OP. But the fact that small ships benefit so disproportionally from them and *still* aren't viable is telling
As a newb to this aspect of combat, this seems the most sensible point. Point defence etc is pointless atm as missiles etc just arent threatening at all. :/
If torpedoes are going to suck record-breaking quantities of , they need to not cost an entire ships' worth to fire AND come with significantly more ammo. Make the reloads take 45 seconds, I don't care. Weapons like torpedoes are worthless for PvE because A) they bite into profits significantly and B) they require oppressively frequent trips back to the gulag to buy more.
As for the PvP angle, were torps even remotely viable for anything other than slaughtering noobs (something that can be done more efficiently with other weapons I might add) you can bet your ass that people would mount countermeasures.
As for the PvP angle, were torps even remotely viable for anything other than slaughtering noobs (something that can be done more efficiently with other weapons I might add) you can bet your ass that people would mount countermeasures.
Do we know how much damage does a single torpedo deal at the moment?
I have tested* them and they seem to deal 150 hull points.
So that's like 3 shots of C2 railgun or one shot of C4 plasma accelerator...
...but let me rephrase:
- it is like a gimballed Imperial Hammer that never misses if used properly and where each shot does the damage of a regular railgun
- or a seeker version of the C4 plasma accelerator
(against hull only of course)
My only concern is that the torpedo launchers exist only up to class 2. having a C3 / C4 version with respectively 4 / 8 shots would change the deal.
While this would have been overpowered before the HRPs were implemented (because 4 of them could take down an unshielded unarmored Python), it is not the case anymore.
Now, if torpedo synthesis would be implemented, that would be overpowered...
*: Target: T9 NPC shieldless, harmless rank (therfore we may assume it had no bulkhead or hull reinforcement packages).As per EDshipyard and Coriolis, 432 base hull (large hull)
Torpedo: 35% damage per shot => 150 hull points damage
Missile: 4% damage per shot => 17 hull points damage
I have tested* them and they seem to deal 150 hull points.
So that's like 3 shots of C2 railgun or one shot of C4 plasma accelerator...
...but let me rephrase:
- it is like a gimballed Imperial Hammer that never misses if used properly and where each shot does the damage of a regular railgun
- or a seeker version of the C4 plasma accelerator
(against hull only of course)
My only concern is that the torpedo launchers exist only up to class 2. having a C3 / C4 version with respectively 4 / 8 shots would change the deal.
While this would have been overpowered before the HRPs were implemented (because 4 of them could take down an unshielded unarmored Python), it is not the case anymore.
Now, if torpedo synthesis would be implemented, that would be overpowered...
*: Target: T9 NPC shieldless, harmless rank (therfore we may assume it had no bulkhead or hull reinforcement packages).As per EDshipyard and Coriolis, 432 base hull (large hull)
Torpedo: 35% damage per shot => 150 hull points damage
Missile: 4% damage per shot => 17 hull points damage
Last edited:
Majinvash
Banned
Small ships in this game will never be truly viable, until a group can mass lock a larger ship and wolf pack it.
Until then its just not going to happen. ( Plus high wake meh )
Even if they get a speed buff and lower targeting profile, they are still more a fun challenge, then viable PVP option. Without breaking everything else.
I was in a stupid build and my 1 shot was actually firing every weapon my ship had ( 2 of them twice ). I used to bullseye womp-rats in my.. oh wait.. no I didn't..
but I did use to a single torpedo on my Viper build to really damage larger ships or one shot small ships, when I finally got shields down after the cell battles ended.
Small ship users are the minority I think in open these days, since money is so easy to come by.
Plus we are basically really talking only about Vipers and DBS, as dedicated fighter small ships.
The most fun to fly, hard to hit but are/should be fragile. I mean my rebuy is 150k credits.
If you are talking game minority, we are it
Majinvash
The Voice of Open
Were missiles even remotely threatening people would use countermeasures, and we'd be back where we started in PvP unless countermeasures also got a look. The point defense has near-infinite ammo and perfect aim. One is enough to stop 99% of incoming missiles right now should you care to equip one (I haven't bothered with them since my first week). Basically nobody runs countermeasures because everyone knows countermeasures (and an asston of other things) make missile weapons useless, so nobody equips missiles. Everybody knows nobody will bother with missiles, so nobody uses countermeasures.
I am in favor of Majin's reply to you. I think it's unreasonable to force equity between large and small ships in a one on one scenario with skills of both pilots being roughly equivalent.
If a ship specializes in doing something, it should succeed in doing so. Thinking that a small ship can take on anything and everything is, if anything unreasonable to me.
- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -
Except that small ships have maneuverability and speed, also that torpedo aims to destroy not only the hull but also modules, which can easily be done to large ships if 2.1 makes missiles and torpedo less of a joke.
- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -
Except that small ships also benefit from Bi-weave, which it can take advantage of to counter missiles and torpedo in general.
What? How is that relevant? I'm not talking about killing power, obviously small ships should not be good at killing a target that wants to flee
"Fun challenge" is a nice way of putting making something bad and reducing diversity
Dedicated fighter small ships are the Eagle, I.Eagle, I.Courier, DBS, Viper III, Viper IV, Vulture. Dedicated fighter non-small ships are the FAS, FDL, and Corvette.
Combat smalls ships outnumber combat large ships by factor of 7:3
Since money is so easy to come by, and PvP doesn't earn you any money, balancing based on rebuy makes no sense.
Money should buy you earning power and more PvP roles, not dominance at everything in PvP. This is a game about flying spaceships, not space freighters. Or would a 100% Cutter meta appeal?
I agree, small ships should be fragile. They should also fly insanely well compared to larger ships. Currently neither is true
Imagine giving the mine launchers the ability
to launch a multitude of mines on button press,
creating a mine field and then apply the "force shell".
Spaceship-pinball anyone?
If a small ship specialises in taking down larger ships, it should also succeed in doing so then
Combat small ships are on the whole slower and less manoeuvrable than the FDL or FAS.
A fast recharge means nothing if you die the moment your shields go down
The only small ship remotely specializing in 'whaling' is the Vulture, a task it does well in PvE, but it isn't as effective in PvP for a lot of reasons mostly to do with the awful meta.
The FDL and FAS are essentially the 'big money' fighters. It makes sense for them to outclass ships that cost less than a tenth of their base price.
Torpedoes are slow enough to dodge in a small ship, missiles aren't going to seriously hurt you. Hitscan lasers or rails on the other hand...