Silent running... M.A.D.

[Aewarin Jameson]

Hah. I guess it makes sense, some heat is likely to escape through open weapons hardpoints, and the weapons themselves are likely to be very hot.

Maybe cover the cockpit too when in silent running, so while in silent running you can only see a thermal images.

Many people over the years have suggested the cockpit ambience should turn red (aka red lightbulb) to signify SR but no .... FD won't bite

 

[Bran Tse Mallory]

Mark I Eyeball works wonders.

Agreed but I don't think everyone wants to pull a crazy Ivan to check their rear.

 

[bamber]

I am an ex royal navy submariner of 23 years service and i can tell you this we were never detected by an aircraft or a helo by passive means MAD howerver if close enough its possible and a sonar dipping helo has a better chance but it also lets the Submarine know its position aswell.

ah the mighty hunters that I fixed the MAD on got you a few times

 

[Bran Tse Mallory]

I am an ex royal navy submariner of 23 years service and i can tell you this we were never detected by an aircraft or a helo by passive means MAD howerver if close enough its possible and a sonar dipping helo has a better chance but it also lets the Submarine know its position aswell.

Hi Micky,

Very sorry for not seeing your post much earlier. Thanks for the input - what you went through is what I think could be recreated within the game, the tension of the hunt and avoidance. The giving away of the helo's position would be akin to the silent ship being notified of a scan and possibly highlight them on the radar...

All ideas have both good and bad sides, thanks to everyone who has posted so far with ideas for potential game play enhancement and also to those who think it should be left as it is - every opinion is a valid and welcome one!

 

[Zinaxis]

Inventive PVP players are always going to come up with an advantage. As long as there is any variation in the game it will be taken advantage of. We seem to be in a nerfing cycle where one thing is nerfed and then another buffed to balance it then that is nerfed etc .....
All this over reacting to PVP tactics is having little effect on dedicated PVP players because they just move on. The players that are affected the most are the majority that play PVE and have to make do with the aftermath.
If this continues the game will become boring as it will all be nerfed. It will just widen the gap between PVP and PVE and drive the majority into private groups or solo or worse, another game.

The nature of PVP is one on one with all ship loadout geared for one encounter. The nature of PVE (BH, trading etc) is one on many or repitition. That causes PVE players to go for loadouts that are no match for a PVP built in a one to one encounter.

I doubt that the people demanding the nerfs are PVP players and I doubt that the complaining PVE players have realised how much these changes destroy the PVE experience and ultimately how little difference it makes to PVP players being able to destroy PVE players in a one to one.
Anybody using SR for combat is not playing the environment as it offers little advantage in PVE.

As long as Fdev are prepared to over react to PVE players complaining about PVP advantages Elite is only going to go downhill. Already lots of players prefer other less balanced games just because they are more exciting and offer the opportunity for inventive PVP players to be creative.
Looking at the long term I don't see a way to balance PVP and PVE interests. We need to learn to live with the difference.

I myself have not looked for PVP encounters. I have been killed by PVP specialists and have learned a lot about how to create a suitable build but it requires a specialised ship and most of my activity is PVE so I need to use a PVE loadout even though I play in open.
My opinion here is not that of a PVP specialist complaining about nerfs but it is of a PVE player concerned about a nerfing battle that can not be won due to the fundamental differences between PVP and PVE.

 

[Duane Dibbley]

The problem with SR isn't that it's massively op..it's just really dull & is a cop-out for real skill..basically you just confuse the hell out of your opponent, rather than attempting to out-fly them!

For example, I used it when interdicted in my DBS by a wing of 3 at the w/e - an FDL & 2 Vultures I killed the first Vulture fairly quickly but then my SCBs had gone so I hit SR & basically gave the FDL the runaround while getting his shields & SCBs exhausted, then the hull down to 80%..in that time he & his Vulture friend had knocked about 8% off my hull - my main target, the FDL panicked at the realisation that he couldn't hit me at all & decided to run, then waked; when I then turned my attention to the Vulture & fired one volley, he waked too!

That would have been way harder if I'd just fought them without SR! & I felt a bit guilty for cheating but have since had a good laugh at the vid & how cowardly they were, from the position of perceived power when interdicting me!..so I've changed my mind - keep as is! But don't use it 1v1 please..that's just pathetic!

 

[SlugwormX]

Hi all, late to the party as usual, but anyway...

Most of the sensors, bar the KWS, seem to be passive based. What you might need is another two additions to spice things up I think.

Heat - Visible to passive sensors - Countered by Silent Running, Heat Sinks - Reduces Detection Range when in SR, Increase when not or when stations deployed
ElectroMagnetic (Radar) - Visible to Active / Passive - Countered by RAM coatings - Reduced range when Retracted, Increased range when deployed
Visible (?) - Visible to Mk1 Eyeball (maybe LIDAR) - Countered by Reflective Armour (actually visibly mirror the starfield) - Countered by Sensors above

You would then have 3 options top choose from but they are in many ways exclusive and could be tailored as people have already mentioned (signature, power draw, module selection etc).

Thermal -> Already done - No shields
Radar -> Passive = Short Range unless the other guy is radiating OR -> Active = Long Range but EM signature like a mountain - High Power Draw - Imporved weapons lock (chaff!)
Visible -> Active = Pretty general improvement but middle power draw, deploying increases detection range, armor slightly weaker

In addition, if you want you could substitute the Radar with LIDAR but then you run into 'balancing' issues with reflecting armor. As a way overpowered Visible module you could have a holographic protection system that splits the ships into one real and two false causing confusion. Could be launched similar to torpedoes. Have ammo requirements.

@micky1984 - Ever run in the Fincastle comp?

 

[Chongo]

The problem with SR isn't that it's massively op..it's just really dull & is a cop-out for real skill..basically you just confuse the hell out of your opponent, rather than attempting to out-fly them!

For example, I used it when interdicted in my DBS by a wing of 3 at the w/e - an FDL & 2 Vultures I killed the first Vulture fairly quickly but then my SCBs had gone so I hit SR & basically gave the FDL the runaround while getting his shields & SCBs exhausted, then the hull down to 80%..in that time he & his Vulture friend had knocked about 8% off my hull - my main target, the FDL panicked at the realisation that he couldn't hit me at all & decided to run, then waked; when I then turned my attention to the Vulture & fired one volley, he waked too!

That would have been way harder if I'd just fought them without SR! & I felt a bit guilty for cheating but have since had a good laugh at the vid & how cowardly they were, from the position of perceived power when interdicting me!..so I've changed my mind - keep as is! But don't use it 1v1 please..that's just pathetic!

You were fighting novices. Could've just written that and then ended the post.

 

[stripealipe]

Just tweak the HRPs down a little. All the HRPs in the world shouldn't mean your ship can take as much fire as it currently does... Flying silent should carry a little more risk along with it's advantages..

 

[Deleted member 38366]

I'd like to see to the Sensor Meta broadened, or at least see something to justify the massive power draw and weight of the existing ones (it being a heat-based Sensor, a.k.a. Passive, always saw that as very "Gamey") and also add other Options.

I mean, who's to tell there could be only one type of Sensor for a Ship?
RADAR, LIDAR, Passive EM (Electromagnetic), ElectroOptical, some could be FOV limited not unlike modern AI Radars/Sensors)... tons of Options, each (to keep them in check) with distinct advantages and disadvantages.

I wouldn't mind seeing the Devs take a step back and see if they couldn't diversify the Sensor portofolio a little bit.
Then apart from adding Options/Realism and new toys to play with/examine, those could be used as a Tool to break up that currently rather "Digital" PvP Meta.

Smaller Ships/Fighters would likely specialize and have to settle for a Sensor type - bigger Ships that run as "Battleships" could combine several Sensors, at the price of being quite expensive, heavy and power-hungry.

 

[Duane Dibbley]

You were fighting novices. Could've just written that and then ended the post.

Hey calm down..how has this offended you? Were you in the FDL?

 

[Chongo]

Hey calm down..how has this offended you? Were you in the FDL?

Well, you make two incorrect contentions that just ends up perpetuating this nonsense about stealth in game. First, you say it removes skill. This is true for noobs vs. noobs only. Second, you say it's lame 1v1.. because it's overpowered? 1v1 shields should always win. People stating otherwise are looking at different CMDR competency levels. And you furthermore liken it to cheating - which is how this nonsense just spins out of control with people that should be researching (fighting) more before making comments and suggestions on fixes. I mean... the OP openly says he hasn't fought any stealth boats. Yet this thread was started with a proposed fix. This is a terrible way to approach things.

 

[Duane Dibbley]

Well, you make two incorrect contentions that just ends up perpetuating this nonsense about stealth in game. First, you say it removes skill. This is true for noobs vs. noobs only. Second, you say it's lame 1v1.. because it's overpowered? 1v1 shields should always win. People stating otherwise are looking at different CMDR competency levels. And you furthermore liken it to cheating - which is how this nonsense just spins out of control with people that should be researching (fighting) more before making comments and suggestions on fixes. I mean... the OP openly says he hasn't fought any stealth boats. Yet this thread was started with a proposed fix. This is a terrible way to approach things.

One - don't read between lines! I FELT like I was cheating against the cmdrs I fought!
.
Two - the majority of players are what you would call noobs at combat..this game is for all levels, not just those who play 5 hrs a day!
.
There is 3,4,5,6, but I think it will make you cry, if I post more than a couple of lines! Hehe
.
You are definitely more m o n g..than chong & bong!

 

[Jesse30]

Well, you make two incorrect contentions that just ends up perpetuating this nonsense about stealth in game. First, you say it removes skill. This is true for noobs vs. noobs only. Second, you say it's lame 1v1.. because it's overpowered? 1v1 shields should always win. People stating otherwise are looking at different CMDR competency levels. And you furthermore liken it to cheating - which is how this nonsense just spins out of control with people that should be researching (fighting) more before making comments and suggestions on fixes. I mean... the OP openly says he hasn't fought any stealth boats. Yet this thread was started with a proposed fix. This is a terrible way to approach things.

I agree most of the complaints comes from people still trying to figure out a way to beat SR.

 

[Noddie]

I've never been able to work out how come the ships can't just see you. Literally - look out the Windows.

 

[Chongo]

One - don't read between lines! I FELT like I was cheating against the cmdrs I fought!
.
Two - the majority of players are what you would call noobs at combat..this game is for all levels, not just those who play 5 hrs a day!
.
There is 3,4,5,6, but I think it will make you cry, if I post more than a couple of lines! Hehe
.
You are definitely more m o n g..than chong & bong!

Totally agree, you have a lot more chong and bong backing you up than I do.

 

[znôrt]

We are all aware of the current PvP trend towards silent running ships and how the inventive PvP crowd have no other choice but to play this way well it's madness.

use fixed weapons and improve your situational awareness, else just run.

 

[Ddraig]

Another idea is to make the sensor suit useful by adding passive intermittent detection of silent running ships. Maybe only A class sensors have this option or via engineer mod to an A class sensor suit giving the functionality at the expense of a higher energy consumption.

I don't know.

 

[micky1984]

ah the mighty hunters that I fixed the MAD on got you a few times

we did an excersie to test it the MAD aircraft ssent a signal when they calimed to have us and marked the position then we surfaced and we were a whole 5milles from where they climed we should be it doesnt work that well

 

[=71st=RuSh]

Welcome CMDR's,

We are all aware of the current PvP trend towards silent running ships and how the inventive PvP crowd have no other choice but to play this way well it's madness.

Today on submarines and expanding into other ares of use we have very good M.A.D. systems (Magnetic Anomaly Detector). It seems to me that we need these as a module within the game to help render silent ships useless (EDIT Possibly the wrong word, think of this as more of a counter measure towards SR).

http://www.cae.com/uploadedFiles/Co...ty/Media_Centre/Document/datasheet.MAD-XR.pdf

Discuss but as always please keep it clean and civil.

I agree, SILENT RUNNING should be based in SILENCE!!, if you click silent running and use your thrusters or weapons, there have to be a signature that shows you in the others radar!

The problem with the SILENT RUNNING is that pilots are exploiting it, they simply have a lot of heat sinkers and activate the SR in combat, while use boosts, thrusters and weapons and you can't lock on them!!, which is the opposite of the word per se!