Stars are no where near hot or dangerous enough.

[Bigglesof206]

Personally I think you are all barking.
Your fuel scoop actually scoops at a fraction of the advertised rate, unless you are happy to overheat long before the tank fills. In my Anaconda, as the jump system seems to think it's a good idea to exit at full throttle (can't jump if set less than 100%, remember) pointed at the star - so if it's a white dwarf, for one example, I have to chop throttle and pull hard to avoid getting too close and dropping.

Now I will happily conceed that the damage caused when you get too close is little more than nuisance value, the odd percent of hull damage and a faff about to jump away, a faff that is more annoying the less agile your ship....the most I'd go for would be a modest increase in damage when you DO fall foul in a botched scoop.


This is a game, and no, I don't want a hard core simulation - you can't have a game which let's you explore the entire galaxy if it's trying hard to kill you every 10ly you jump....you'll end up seriously wondering whether you dare leave the landing pad - in short, turn the stars into killers and you'll have increased the simulation aspect and gone a long way towards killing the game.

For the chap pondering the stellar corona temperature I suggest you check the density of all those free protons, and consider what that might mean for the energy density of the hazard.

Dave

 

[Cmdr Cheese Wedge]

The stars were definitely hotter in previous builds you had to really focus on heat levels as well as scooping, now it's possible to get stuck inside one and still supercruise out of harms way.
Bring back the hot stars several builds ago I'll be a happy camper.

And yes black holes should be terrifying if you get too close to the event horizon which could be set at variable distances.
I'd like to see some kind of cool warping effect in the cockpit followed by spaghettification as your cockpit stretches out and then black nothingness followed with the words "You Died."

Maybe the warping effect could be a visual clue to turn tail and get out fast.

 

[who?]

I have absolutely no problem with "safeties" being in the game, i.e. the automatic drop out of supercruise if you try to collide with a star or planet. (Though it's odd that you can easily collide with a rock in a planetary ring!) It's reasonable to assume in the distant future the on-board computer can detect a planetary face-plant and take some action to avoid it.

But ideally you should be able to disengage safeties (with appropriate warnings/flashing lights/annoying klaxons) in order to get a slight speed/scooping advantage *but at the penalty of massively increased risk*. And it should be randomised risk, so that people don't "meta" it.. "if you turn off safeties for <= 5.4 seconds with a Class A scoop you can scoop must faster without exploding".

 

[[VR] Deggial]

As far as I know, fuel-scooping is a planned feature for gas giants. As soon as this happens, suns might get a nice buff in danger.

An interesting trade-off, isn't it?
- Sun: close to the arrival point -> fast traveling, but risky.
- Gas giant: safe scooping (and awesome cloud-riding!), but slower to reach.

 

[who?]

As far as I know, fuel-scooping is a planned feature for gas giants. As soon as this happens, suns might get a nice buff in danger.

An interesting trade-off, isn't it?
- Sun: close to the arrival point -> fast traveling, but risky.
- Gas giant: safe scooping (and awesome cloud-riding!), but slower to reach.

They'll be epic! I wonder how awkward they will be though - gas giants have gravity up to ~40G. Is that taken into consideration in the gravity well modelling? If so they'll be painfully slow to reach. And what happens if you were to disengage from FSD over one of those planets? 40G acceleration would be nearly instantly fatal, no?

 

[Brett C]

Remember, you're in the year 3300 in Elite. Just picture that technology has advanced since current-day.

One would assume to refuel near a star, one's ship would also have extensive heat dissipation functionality to combat against said heat build up.

 

[Zelos1983]

Your fuel scoop actually scoops at a fraction of the advertised rate, unless you are happy to overheat long before the tank fills.

I usually just dip into the corona, reaching maximum scoopage for a brief moment than pull out while charging my friendship drive. With Class 6A, that goes really quick.

But for the general discussion:
When you look at where you die, it happens almost exclusively in spacedock. Docking/undocking is by far the most dangerous activity in the game currently. It seems the player base is happy with it, as they welcomed the speeding mechanic changes last year that made it even more dangerous.

Interdictions, exploring etc. is rather harmless if you pay attention.

So far I have been killed only once in combat, that was in a Cobra when I was rather unexperienced and the NPC decided for a suicide run.

Remember, you're in the year 3300 in Elite. Just picture that technology has advanced since current-day.

One would assume to refuel near a star, one's ship would also have extensive heat dissipation functionality to combat against said heat build up.

That in itself would be believable. But on the other hand, heat builds up quite rapidly when firing lasers, railguns and plasma accelerators, even though there is only a fraction of the energy involved. That just makes no sense.
Especially given the fact that the shields can hold off laser fire, but are completely useless against the sun's radiation?

 

[Eros]

Well surface gravity and gravity in the upper atmospheres would be different for a large object such as a gas giant... but yeah it wouldn't be pleasant.

I see it like Deggial said, similar to FE II

Also as Brett points out too, a huge issue in space would be the dissipation of heat, remember, your powerplant is probably a little fusion generator, getting rid of heat from that thing, i think would be a worse load than flying near to a star for a few minutes. External thermal shielding can be very effective, if you are exposed to the heat for say 20 seconds, the internal temperature of the ship likely wouldn't rise all that quickly.

[Edit] the observational difference between external and internal heating is important to concider. Remember, heat produced within the ship has to be dissipated... this is quite different from shielding from external sources.

Its possible to have a system that is shielded very well from the outside, but not the inside. Making overheating of internal components a huge problem, but heat transfer from the outside not a problem

 

[Mazhurg]

They'll be epic! I wonder how awkward they will be though - gas giants have gravity up to ~40G. Is that taken into consideration in the gravity well modelling? If so they'll be painfully slow to reach. And what happens if you were to disengage from FSD over one of those planets? 40G acceleration would be nearly instantly fatal, no?

Until you do something to create the 40g acceleration pressure like having an un-penetrable object . e,g ground or trusting against the gravity you are weightless so no instant fatality.

 

[Infidel Deity]

Remember, you're in the year 3300 in Elite. Just picture that technology has advanced since current-day.

I remind myself of that quite often; not everything adds up to that.

Like the lack of PP decals?

 

[Zelos1983]

Until you do something to create the 40g acceleration pressure like having an un-penetrable object . e,g ground or trusting against the gravity you are weightless so no instant fatality.

Exactly that. Remember, all parts of your body and the ship are accelerated simultaneously. You would feel weightless.

But gravity is modeled only in Horizons, not the rest of the game. I can easily sit in front of Sagittarius A* without any motion that would sustain an orbit.

 

[who?]

Until you do something to create the 40g acceleration pressure like having an un-penetrable object . e,g ground or trusting against the gravity you are weightless so no instant fatality.

Oops. That makes sense - I was thinking of scenarios where the ship is accelerating/decelerating and thus you're being pushed into / pulling away from the seat into your restraints. But in this case the acceleration applies to both you and the ship equally.

 

[Shadowdancer]

I agree, the game should be more realistic.

To make it short, that would mean that you immediately evaporate when you enter a system. Realism is fun.

 

[the100thmonkey]

Personally I think you are all barking.
Your fuel scoop actually scoops at a fraction of the advertised rate, unless you are happy to overheat long before the tank fills. In my Anaconda, as the jump system seems to think it's a good idea to exit at full throttle (can't jump if set less than 100%, remember) pointed at the star - so if it's a white dwarf, for one example, I have to chop throttle and pull hard to avoid getting too close and dropping.

Any joystick with a throttle slider, from $300+ HOTAS to $40 Logitech Wingman allows you to zero the throttle after the countdown has begun and drop out of witchspace at 30km/s. Perhaps play with something useful?

There is also a particular art to scooping - rushing in full throttle and trying to scoop at maximum velocity and maximum fill-rate is going to overheat your ship before your tank is full, except for the DBS and the FdL. Try using the throttle, and edging up to about 90% of your maximum scoop rate - you'll find that you heat up a great deal more slowly while only scarificing a small percentage of your fill rate. If your heat gets to 75%, pull up and throttle up to escape the heat and repeat.

And make sure you put the A rated parts where it counts - power plant, fuel scoop and FSD.

 

[Ziljan]

Remember, you're in the year 3300 in Elite. Just picture that technology has advanced since current-day.

One would assume to refuel near a star, one's ship would also have extensive heat dissipation functionality to combat against said heat build up.

Indeed. We have this technology now. But stars should still be terrifying when close up, just for the fun factor

As far as I know, fuel-scooping is a planned feature for gas giants. As soon as this happens, suns might get a nice buff in danger.

An interesting trade-off, isn't it?
- Sun: close to the arrival point -> fast traveling, but risky.
- Gas giant: safe scooping (and awesome cloud-riding!), but slower to reach.

One can hope !!!

I'm hoping for damaging solar flares, violent variables, intensely magnetic interference with sensors, etc.

 

[Jack Schitt]

One would assume to refuel near a star, one's ship would also have extensive heat dissipation functionality to combat against said heat build up.

That in itself would be believable. But on the other hand, heat builds up quite rapidly when firing lasers, railguns and plasma accelerators, even though there is only a fraction of the energy involved. That just makes no sense. Especially given the fact that the shields can hold off laser fire, but are completely useless against the sun's radiation?

That was my reaction too. I was quite surprised when I found out how the scooping mechanics work. My first exploration trip I equipped a shield generator simply because it never occurred to me that I'd be able to get so close to a star with only the hull -- already pumping out excess heat from its radiators -- to protect me.

As for being able to scoop with a broken canopy and no shields... yeah, even if I accept the possibility of heat-reflective hulls (and transparent canopy material) I just can't retcon that at all. The pilot has nothing between him and the star while he sits a few light seconds from the corona. He should be cooked.

If I had free reign and everything was a SMOP I can think of a handful of ways around this.

• When the canopy breaches, instead of donning a RemLok and remaining in the cockpit the pilot retreats to a compartment that still holds life support and pilots the ship remotely.
  As a way of explaining why this isn't done all the time, remote piloting would need some drawbacks. Maybe the controls have a sluggish delay. Maybe the entire HUD is rendered monochrome wireframe as an homage to the original Elite. Maybe weapons cannot be fired. This would of course take away some of the thrill of piloting a ship with half a HUD and falling oxygen levels.
  
  
• If the canopy is breached and a hyperspace jump is initiated, an opaque cover made of hull material slides into place over the broken canopy.
  Maybe the HUD changes to monochrome wireframe as above, or maybe no visual representation of other objects is presented at all, just the normal targeting HUD elements and holograms. This would make navigating to a starport quite challenging, and combat extremely so. It might be difficult to explain away where this extra hull material lives when not in use, though, especially on something like a Type 9 or the larger Imperial ships with their big curved canopies.
  
  
• The simplest solution: keep the current mechanics but give the navigation computer the ability to lock onto masses other than stars in the destination system.
  If we could lock onto, say, anything Saturn mass or above we could jump out of trouble without cooking ourselves at a star. (There's still lots of radiation around gas giants, but I'm happier to concede that future tech -- maybe the spacesuit and helmet -- can withstand those levels rather than full-on solar emissions). In some situations this would even add a tactical element, as some systems with space stations have no gas giants. Players would not be able to use these as pre-programmed "high wake" destinations in the case of a canopy breach, but might have to choose a nearby uninhabited system with a suitable non-stellar mass to target. They'd also have to keep fuel in reserve, since scooping would be out of the question unless or until gas giant scooping is implemented.

 

[Erimus Kamzel]

Remember, you're in the year 3300 in Elite. Just picture that technology has advanced since current-day.

One would assume to refuel near a star, one's ship would also have extensive heat dissipation functionality to combat against said heat build up.

Technology shouldn't wrap us up in cotton wool. The Galaxy should be a dangerous place Brett.. Environmental dangers being the biggest threats of all. A trip to Beagle Point and back should offer far more challenges than endurance.

There should be parts of the Galaxy that are deadly to travellers, places that become notorious for what can happen out there. Places that become legend, and offer real challenges for those who try to cross them and map them.

Should have been like this from the start imho, but there's still time

 

[Bigglesof206]

I've got a CH Throttle, stick and pedals, actually, and I'd hardly get to an Anaconda if I tried scooping at 100%, I'd be posting threads about how scooping was suicide - I'll double check that the game spots throttle change after countdown, my experience so far is that there's a frozen period of time during jump when the program ignores input, maybe it does indeed immediately reset after system entry - wouldn't be the first ingame feature I'd not noticed, in which case thanks, I'll remember it for the next jump into a dwarf system.

It doesn't alter the fact that the ship emerges on a collision course, and if you are going to insist on iron man rules then the less agile ships already have to chop throttle and pull quite hard to avoid that silly 'you're too close' slab of delay, and making this occur more frequently with more damage is bleeding for fun.

 

[the100thmonkey]

I've got a CH Throttle, stick and pedals, actually, and I'd hardly get to an Anaconda if I tried scooping at 100%, I'd be posting threads about how scooping was suicide - I'll double check that the game spots throttle change after countdown, my experience so far is that there's a frozen period of time during jump when the program ignores input, maybe it does indeed immediately reset after system entry - wouldn't be the first ingame feature I'd not noticed, in which case thanks, I'll remember it for the next jump into a dwarf system.

It doesn't alter the fact that the ship emerges on a collision course, and if you are going to insist on iron man rules then the less agile ships already have to chop throttle and pull quite hard to avoid that silly 'you're too close' slab of delay, and making this occur more frequently with more damage is bleeding for fun.

Accelerating after the initial star-rushing-toward-you effect as you drop out of witchspace has literally never happened to me except when I've forgotten to zero the throttle. Perhaps it's an issue with the way CH write their drivers or the way the game client interprets the output.

 

[Henri]

Remember, you're in the year 3300 in Elite. Just picture that technology has advanced since current-day.

One would assume to refuel near a star, one's ship would also have extensive heat dissipation functionality to combat against said heat build up.

which would mean we would be silent running ALL day when not scooping and lazors would never overheat. There would not be all this lore about heat being difficult to loose.
Why have heatsinks and not use this amazing technology you speak of?

Technology shouldn't wrap us up in cotton wool. The Galaxy should be a dangerous place Brett.. Environmental dangers being the biggest threats of all. A trip to Beagle Point and back should offer far more challenges than endurance.

There should be parts of the Galaxy that are deadly to travellers, places that become notorious for what can happen out there. Places that become legend, and offer real challenges for those who try to cross them and map them.

Should have been like this from the start imho, but there's still time

This reminds me of the time someone reached Sag-a within a week of release...

I sometimes wonder if my version of Elite Dangerous is unique as in different from what other people are playing when I read their experiences.
When I installed Horizons all I did was point my ship at a planetary base and my ship automatically goes from space to orbital cruise and then glide, breaks and stops at a reasonable distance without any input from me what so ever.
No skill, no required corrections, just point it and set speed in the blue and go make a cup of coffee. When fuel scooping I set my ship to fly at an angle to the sun and it will fill up without me touching anything it is usually done after I make a snack. I am not even going to get started on black holes. Things are just ridiculously easy dull, fortunately combat is challenging! it took me a whole 40 seconds to kill an Anaconda the other day

There's another thread about planetary temperatures, something we haven't touched upon which could add some danger too for the srv besides ice planets being slippery and the occasional pebble I might hit.
Some stars should melt my srv yet I don' t even need sun block.