Imperial Courier vs Vulture (is Courier better?)

[Red Fox Four]

I've been tinkering in Coriolis.io with the Imperial Courier and the Vulture.

I feel like I am missing something because nomatter how I try the Vulture ends up with worse shields, worse DPS and less utility. It does have better maneuverability and more armor, but that's all it offers.

I focused on shields with the Imperial Courier and came up with this build.

http://coriolis.io/outfit/imperial_...16b2j.Iw18UA==.MwBhrEEYdrPMIA==?bn=Shields up!

**edit** added a screenshot for those too lazy to click link

Spoiler

The Imperial Courier gets better shields, FSD Interdictor, KillWarrant-Scanner and Shield Cell banks. It still has decent maneuverability (though less than Vulture 7/10 vs 9/10 on Vulture), but less armor (who armor tanks anyways though?).

With stronger shields, better DPS and more utility it seems to me the Courier is simply better (not to mention cheaper) than the Vulture. Or am I missing something crucial here?

Nomatter how I try the Vulture runs out of juice before I can install the same utility as I have on the Courier.

Ideally I am trying to save up for the Python and then eventually get a Cutter.

Would love to hear some opinions on this. Should I just keep the Courier, or would it be worth spending extra cash for the Vulture?

 

[LittleJP]

Size 5 PD > courier's size 3
plus large weapons > 3 mediums.

 

[[DOOK] Droogie]

The Vulture doesn't just have more armor. The Courier is made out of paper. Great shields, but if they drop, you're done.

The distributor is the Achilles Heel of the Courier. That, and only having medium weapons, ensures it will always remain well behind the Vulture in dps.

.

 

[askavir]

Against each other they're pretty balanced.

Against bigger prey, the Vulture is better.

 

[Red Fox Four]

Size 5 PD > courier's size 3
plus large weapons > 3 mediums.

Not sure what you mean by PD? The shields I get on my Courier is bigger than what I get on my Vulture, even with a size 5A shield generator.

Also, even with 2 Large weapons the Courier is getting a listed 12DPS (with 2 MC and 1 Beam) and you get 8 from 2 Large Pulse on a Vulture. In fact, doesn't matter if I put 2 Large Pulse, Burst, Beam, Plasma Accelerator etc, it still only gets 8 DPS out of the Vulture.

 

[Ian Skippy]

DPS is wrong in coriolis, ignore it. The DPS of a vulture is MUCH higher, and the weapon placement is much better.

 

[Red Fox Four]

Against each other they're pretty balanced.

Against bigger prey, the Vulture is better.

Yeah, this is true. Larger size weapon does better damage against larger ships. I forgot to account for that.

On paper though (as per the setup in Coriolis.io that I linked) the Courier looks way better, especially since it gets a lot of utility which the Vulture doesn't.

 

[[DOOK] Droogie]

The Courier also has terrible heat management. You're not running a heat sink on that build. Good luck when you hit that SCB. You're gonna be cooking.

The PD = power distributor. It really holds it back. You can't sustain any kind of fire and hope to boost or anything at the same time.

 

[Thetele]

Medium weapons get damage reduction when attacking large ships but large weapons don't. So vulture can do a lot more damage to large ships.

 

[fennster]

The Courier also has terrible heat management. You're not running a heat sink on that build. Good luck when you hit that SCB. You're gonna be cooking.

And the Vulture doesn't?

 

[Red Anders]

http://coriolis.io/outfit/vulture/2...252f.AwRj4zyA.AwiMIyuI?bn=Vulture - new build

That has about 90mw less shields than your Courier. The shields are bi-weaves so they recharge fast even with the boosters. You may notice that it has over 1,000 more armour. DPS may be lower but in any practical sense, the fact that the Vulture can fire those two class 3 pulses almost indefinitely with 4 pips to weapons means that it is much more efficient than a Courier using a beam and multis because the Courier can't even fire the beam on its own for long without baking your ship and the multis need to be reloaded.

I flew a Courier with a very similar build to yours there back when I started playing - it's a great little ship and huge fun but the Vulture is a major step up in terms of what it can do.

TL;DR DPS is not the only factor to consider and frequently it's not even the most important one.

(Sensors should be 4D on that by the way, just realised I never changed them on coriolis lol)

 

[[DOOK] Droogie]

And the Vulture doesn't?

Straw man. I never said it doesn't. It's nowhere near as bad as the Courier, though. I just mentioned they aren't running a heat sink. That build isn't effective with an SCB.

 

[Zeta Legion]

Not sure what you mean by PD? The shields I get on my Courier is bigger than what I get on my Vulture, even with a size 5A shield generator.

Also, even with 2 Large weapons the Courier is getting a listed 12DPS (with 2 MC and 1 Beam) and you get 8 from 2 Large Pulse on a Vulture. In fact, doesn't matter if I put 2 Large Pulse, Burst, Beam, Plasma Accelerator etc, it still only gets 8 DPS out of the Vulture.

PD = Power Distributor. The vastly inferior PD on the Courier throttles its' DPS down significantly. Also, C2 weapons fare less well against larger targets due to the size penalty compared to C3. Thus the Vulture will do more DPS to hulls.

This also doesn't account for the superior armour, heat management, and hardpoint placement.

 

[Cliffson]

When it comes to scbs, your base shield is not nearly as important the size of scbs, in this case the vulture is better as in this example having total shield 1300.

http://coriolis.io/outfit/vulture/24A5A4A3A5A4D3C1d1n04020m005jB32o6625.AwRj4zyA.AwiMIyNcg===

When it cones to armour even if you dint intend to armour tank the difference between the two is when you make a mistake and lose shields you don't blow up in the vulture pretty much instantly like you do in the courier

Additionally the size 5power distributer allows you to shoot for longer or have more pips in sys or eng.

Size 3 hardpoinrs have lower damage reduction on bigger targets. (also yeah dps figure on coriolis is rubbish, you can use the o e on each weapon bur that is shields only).

The vulture is also much more maneuverable than the courier.

Yes the courier has more utility due to more internal slots and the oversized powerplant but for combat it is not as good.

 

[Red Fox Four]

Thanks guys. Love how constructive this community is here with regards to fitting ships

I guess the Courier build is a good one until jumping into Vulture. It should be quite reliable in combat. I actually never had much issues with overheating in the Courier using the Beam to strip shields and then MC's to finish them off. But it is somewhat slow to use against Pythons and Clippers.

Going to derail the topic a little bit with a second question:

After the Vulture what is a good combat ship to get into next?

I looked at the FdL but from what I recall there were some big issues with aiming the weapon mounted underneath it? Python looks great as it can land anywhere (outposts) and has room for cargo and utility.

Eventually I want to get into an Imperial Cutter because, Imperial...

Thanks again for great feedback!

 

[[DOOK] Droogie]

The Courier doesn't really have utility. It still has terrible cargo, a tiny fuel tank, and the internals are very small. That's the problem with it. It has no focus, and it isn't a multirole. It's worse than the Cobra and far more expensive.

 

[Bomba Luigi]

I have both ships and both are lovley and really good in Combat but all in all the Vulture is better, at least as far as I can tell. Not really much to say about the Vulture tough, he is simple and brutal
I just slap two pulselaser on it and its doing great. As far as juice goes he is a bit limited alltough I don't really have any problems myself in that regard, just needs some work in the priorities. Granted I don't use SCBs in the Vulture, which may be a reason why since they can take a lot of juice. But you can go a bit lower on the Thrusters if more power is needed, put Class D Thrusters in the Vulture instead of A.
The Vulture will not care about that, he still outmanouvers any NPC without problems. Which is btw. why I never had SCBs in my Vulture, they just can't shoot at me for long enough that my shields could get down. In PvP thats probably a bit diffrent, but I don't know anything about that.

But you know, if you like the Courier and do well in the Courier then I don't really see a reason why you should need to switch to a Vulture, unless you want a bit of change. Or maybe wait till 2.1 when there will be large Multicanons, they may be quite beastly and then you can keep the Beamlaser/MC setup from the Courier without having to put a class 2 one in the class 3 Hardpoint.

 

[[DOOK] Droogie]

The FDL is an amazing ship that has the best shields in game outside of the big 3. It also has insane heat management. You can get 728mj shields with bi weaves.

The FDL or FAS would be the best way to step up from a Vulture.

The Python is a great multirole, but the maneuverability is terrible. Especially when you're used to the Courier and Vulture. For pure combat, the FDL or FAS are the way to go.

 

[Zeta Legion]

Thanks guys. Love how constructive this community is here with regards to fitting ships

I guess the Courier build is a good one until jumping into Vulture. It should be quite reliable in combat. I actually never had much issues with overheating in the Courier using the Beam to strip shields and then MC's to finish them off. But it is somewhat slow to use against Pythons and Clippers.

Going to derail the topic a little bit with a second question:

After the Vulture what is a good combat ship to get into next?

I looked at the FdL but from what I recall there were some big issues with aiming the weapon mounted underneath it? Python looks great as it can land anywhere (outposts) and has room for cargo and utility.

Eventually I want to get into an Imperial Cutter because, Imperial...

Thanks again for great feedback!

The copypasta answers are FAS and FDL. Either one is a step up in firepower and durability without sacrificing much agility.

The FAS is closer to the Vulture in terms of playstyle but the increased tolerances allow for more variety in the builds.

The FDL is fast and can make good use of the C4 mount and can require practice to do so, depending on how experienced you are with PA's or alternatively Cannons. I find the PA to be the better fit though. Also the FDL has possibly the best thermal profile in the game.

 

[Red Anders]

Thanks guys. Love how constructive this community is here with regards to fitting ships

I guess the Courier build is a good one until jumping into Vulture. It should be quite reliable in combat. I actually never had much issues with overheating in the Courier using the Beam to strip shields and then MC's to finish them off. But it is somewhat slow to use against Pythons and Clippers.

Going to derail the topic a little bit with a second question:

After the Vulture what is a good combat ship to get into next?

I looked at the FdL but from what I recall there were some big issues with aiming the weapon mounted underneath it? Python looks great as it can land anywhere (outposts) and has room for cargo and utility.

Eventually I want to get into an Imperial Cutter because, Imperial...

Thanks again for great feedback!

Other than the FDL, it's the FAS. Handles very similarly to the Vulture, amazingly well considering the size of the ship. Shields are terrible no matter what you use but the armour you can stack on it more than compensates.