HTC Vive's Resolution Issue In Elite: Dangerous Is Damning

[Chainguns]

I believe Vive support was announced by FDev around November last year, with the Rift being 'added' circa January.

Just wondering if they actually had a Vive Pre in November when they made that announcement... Seems odd that a significant issue is only noticed once headsets are in the hands of the first consumers.

Like some above, I was literally about to drop 1,000 EUR on the Vive (+2,000 on pascal) SOLELY for ED just because HTC appeared to be partnered with FDev. If I had I wouldn't be over the moon about how things played out...

 

[xaisis]

FD has stated that the Rift CV1 and the Vive are both sent the same image data;

Ergo, any differences between the Rift and Vive 'versions' are strictly down to how the HMD hardware (including the driver, screen(s) and lenses) behave. Not Elite itself. FD are not at fault here.

I find it interresting that other game titles do not seem to have much of a problem with the vive.

It looks to me like FD at some point had support for the vive, then when rift came out they changed the sittings to fit that headset.

But again that just seems so amateurish(is that a word?) to me.

---

Il add a review on steam.

 

[marwood82]

I find it interresting that other game titles do not seem to have much of a problem with the vive.

It looks to me like FD at some point had support for the vive, then when rift came out they changed the sittings to fit that headset.

But again that just seems so amateurish(is that a word?) to me.

---

at the end of the day, we don't know what the problem is. yes other things may work well with the vive, but the issue could be specific to the elite game engine.
(which could mean its not an easy thing to 'fix')

the point about changing to fit the rift doesnt make sense. it has been working with steamvr for months (which as far as i can tell is the only thing it should need to do?)

it does make you wonder what the hardware differences are between the vive pre and the consumer vive.
given that a lot of what people have been complaining about (image quality(especially elite) , focus to infinity etc), i didnt see mentioned by anyone who had tried the vive pre at the tech shows ( and elite was a game they used to show it off)

if there isn't anything different in the consumer hardware, (and as FD say they send the same image to both headsets) then that would start to point the finger at steamvr. (Which tbh, i wouldn't surprise me)

 

[Derage]

at the end of the day, we don't know what the problem is. yes other things may work well with the vive, but the issue could be specific to the elite game engine.
(which could mean its not an easy thing to 'fix')

the point about changing to fit the rift doesnt make sense. it has been working with steamvr for months (which as far as i can tell is the only thing it should need to do?)

it does make you wonder what the hardware differences are between the vive pre and the consumer vive.
given that a lot of what people have been complaining about (image quality(especially elite) , focus to infinity etc), i didnt see mentioned by anyone who had tried the vive pre at the tech shows ( and elite was a game they used to show it off)

if there isn't anything different in the consumer hardware, (and as FD say they send the same image to both headsets) then that would start to point the finger at steamvr. (Which tbh, i wouldn't surprise me)

From what I gathered from various sources is that the game ran fine before a certain Oculus Runtime update. So it has been working fine before. The hardware differences between Pre and consumer are barely any.

 

[tsh]

Ergo, any differences between the Rift and Vive 'versions' are strictly down to how the HMD hardware (including the driver, screen(s) and lenses) behave. Not Elite itself. FD are not at fault here.

The tool is rarely the real problem. If you start off down that route, you'll start believing that guns kill people all on their own... I'd suggest a cooperative approach to solving the problem wherever makes most sense, rather than denying any fault.

 

[SpitTheDog]

The tool is rarely the real problem. If you start off down that route, you'll start believing that guns kill people all on their own... I'd suggest a cooperative approach to solving the problem wherever makes most sense, rather than denying any fault.

Next time I have a paper jam I will first of all start troubleshooting Windows then just so that I am not assuming the tool is at fault.

There is definitely something wrong with how the Vive handles this in comparison to the Rift. Now perhaps there is something that FD can do to resolve it but FD have provided us answers relating to the issue whereas I see nothing posted on here as a response from HTC. In the past it worked well, later it didn't. In the past the Rift worked well, then the SDK broke things, then things worked again later.

Things change and get in the way but right now we just have what FD tell us to go on. So you can go for 'the tool is rarely the real problem' angle if you like whereas as I prefer to take what FD say as 'reasonably' truthful. Either way someone needs to fix this and it isn't something in my hands. Meantime I will continue to enjoy playing the game using the Vive as I still love it more than playing on my 4k monitor.

P.S. Guns don't shoot people, people do. Really? Are you trying to start a gun control discussion? This is hardware and software totally different.

 

[shreddog]

Try using the Galaxy or System map in VR. It makes elites "Made for VR pill" feel like trying to swallow a baseball.

Indeed, this is the biggest issue atm That system map is so dreadully glitchy it renders the whole vr experience useless. How am i supposed to use this thing when the slightest headmovement sends the marker and view on a wild trip.

This should have been fixed long before the consumer headsets launched. It's really sloppy.

I'll be busy with other vr apps while fdev upgrades their gui from experimental alpha to something a bit more polished.

 

[Arithon]

It would seem that FD do not even own a Vive themselves, else they would be able to see the problem themselves.

So we send them some screenshots. (how is that even going to fix anything ?)

That is some world leading VR game we are playing.

As someone who demonstrated and played Elite on a Vive at last year's EGX, I can say that's not the case. Frontier have Vive headsets.

Can you post a screen shot? Does this show anything?

 

[grammatonfeather]

Well my Vive is arriving in a few days.

It's funny that a lot of people here were saying how much better Vive was gonna be over CV1 and ironically it seems to be broken with ED.

I still have my DK2 at this time.

I have CV1 on pre-order and was gonna cancel it if I got on ok with the vive.

I like that the vive is more a complete product at this time but my concerns are it being tied to steamvr. In my view HTC did a great job with the hardware but Valve are the weak part of the equation. SteamVR is buggy and inefficient and Valve could have done so much more than release a crappy portal demo. It suggests they can't even pull their fingers out for content development for this new system. On the other hand Vive is an impressive design and it's being delivered to me even though I pre-ordered it a few months after my Octopus CV1 pre-order (which now shows 2 months away).

I have doubts and my doubts are mostly concerns about Vive being tied to Steamvr.

Is Project Cars working with Vive?

How about Half Life 2? (this was working ok for me last year but valve have broken it for DK2 this year).

http://steamcommunity.com/app/234630/discussions/0/405692758722476233/#p9

I didn't buy Vive just to play a few wavey stick games. So it emerges that Vive/SteamVR has no Async timewarp. That's a massive drawback as it has really improved performance massively since 1.3 oculus came along.

I have a few choices here...

I could keep the vive and wait until it gets better... since Valve is involved it could be just as buggy and unsupported 12 months from now.

I could sell the vive for a profit and keep my CV1 pre-order and will then have to wait until end of 2017 when CV1 ships to customers.

I have my DK2 so I can afford to ditch the vive and wait another 12 months for cv1.

http://steamcommunity.com/app/234630/discussions/0/405692758722476233/#p9

 

[wstephenson]

lete product at this time but my concerns are it being tied to steamvr. In my view HTC did a great job with the hardware but Valve are the weak part of the equation. SteamVR is buggy and inefficient and Valve could have done so much more than release a crappy portal demo. It suggests they can't even pull their fingers out for content development for this new system. On the other hand Vive is an impressive design and it's being delivered to me even though I pre-ordered it a few months after my Octopus CV1 pre-order (which now shows 2 months away).

I'd say the exact opposite; my Vive arrived with a faulty 3 in 1 cable and while that is away for repair (which is taking at least 2 weeks from initial report to replacement part in hand) one of my Lighthouse's motor noise has changed from a smooth hum to a pulsing sound. Not exactly confidence inspiring.

Software can be patched.

The only good side is HTC/DR sent me two Vives (one on a cancelled order), one of which I flipped new in box on ebay for a modest profit.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

As someone who demonstrated and played Elite on a Vive at last year's EGX, I can say that's not the case. Frontier have Vive headsets.

Can you post a screen shot? Does this show anything?

Can anyone with a Vive and a Steam-enabled ED post me the command line that Elite runs with when launched in VR mode from Steam (as a native Steam game, not a non-Steam game launched from Steam)? I am looking for a /vr switch or similar when launched in this way. I would like to know if this exists so that we can see if it affects the game's appearance.

Please obfuscate the token part of the command line so that it cannot be used to login as you first.

 

[xaisis]

As someone who demonstrated and played Elite on a Vive at last year's EGX, I can say that's not the case. Frontier have Vive headsets.

Can you post a screen shot? Does this show anything?

OK, good to know they own a vive. still wondering how consumers where the ones who had to discover the problems.


Not following your comment on the screenshot part. you want me post a in-game screenshot from the headset?


Well anyways, I am not home atm, and this link have both detailed information and pictures.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Vive/wiki/elitedangerous

 

[grammatonfeather]

I'd say the exact opposite; my Vive arrived with a faulty 3 in 1 cable and while that is away for repair (which is taking at least 2 weeks from initial report to replacement part in hand) one of my Lighthouse's motor noise has changed from a smooth hum to a pulsing sound. Not exactly confidence inspiring.

Software can be patched.

The only good side is HTC/DR sent me two Vives (one on a cancelled order), one of which I flipped new in box on ebay for a modest profit.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -



Can anyone with a Vive and a Steam-enabled ED post me the command line that Elite runs with when launched in VR mode from Steam (as a native Steam game, not a non-Steam game launched from Steam)? I am looking for a /vr switch or similar when launched in this way. I would like to know if this exists so that we can see if it affects the game's appearance.

Please obfuscate the token part of the command line so that it cannot be used to login as you first.

Hardware faults eh? A friend a mine who swears allegiance to Oculus thinks Vive will prove to be problematic in terms of quality control.

I was told by a HTC customer support (over the phone) never to move the lighthouse controllers when the motors are spinning.

It looks like the Vive is going to be pretty much what I suspected last year... Poor games support (ED broken, no Project Cars). As much as I want to try flapping my arms around in VR... it's not the main reason I bought Vive. I want DCS World, ED and Project Cars to be working just for starters.

 

[daveylad]

Elite is absolutely shocking in the Vive. What are Frontier playing at? Everything else I've played looks beautiful including DCS World which looks awesome. I suppose the Vive problem will take a back seat while they deploy the 2.1 beta.

 

[wstephenson]

Hardware faults eh? A friend a mine who swears allegiance to Oculus thinks Vive will prove to be problematic in terms of quality control.

Yes, I think so too, and my experience supports this. More moving parts, and more complexity in 3 of those parts.

I was told by a HTC customer support (over the phone) never to move the lighthouse controllers when the motors are spinning.

It says the same thing during setup - and I've followed this instruction. But their chief engineer says they are designed for a 50000 hour MTBF. Let's see - maybe the motors are just getting bedded in - due to the cable problem I've not used the system much.

It looks like the Vive is going to be pretty much what I suspected last year... Poor games support (ED broken, no Project Cars). As much as I want to try flapping my arms around in VR... it's not the main reason I bought Vive. I want DCS World, ED and Project Cars to be working just for starters.

I'm sure software support will improve. I bought into VR for ED mainly, and cancelled a Rift preorder when people generally agreed that the Vive has better comfort wearing glasses, but room scale is just a nice to have for me.

 

[cygnusa]

Got my Vive yesterday... planning to give Elite a shot tonight with it. I'm somewhat dreading what I've been reading about, but we'll see. Even if it looks semi-crappy, I'll still play the darn game in VR to get my fix in the interim.

I'm optimistic the issue will get fixed, but its a matter of -when-. Frontier is super busy with 2.1 and their timeline. I get a feeling they want to keep pushing things forward on that front, especially since 2.1 was rather notably delayed. The game needs evolving content to retain players.. and the mission system has been quite lacking, which 2.1 is suppose to address. They need this release soon or they could lose their grasp and market share. However, Frontier must keep in mind. VR is out now. There are a lot of other games out there. New games are on the way. Frontier needs to keep ahead of the curve.

Frontier's comment per the link earlier about the Vive, it was stated: "We are certainly looking to address". The cynic inside of me sees that as 'we are going to look at it', rather than 'we are actively looking at it'. Thus why I think its slated to get attention AFTER 2.1. Just my gut feelings...

I'm keeping my Vive. I'm enjoying it IMMENSELY in other games. I'm just waiting for Frontier to remedy the issue. If they don't, they don't. It just means they will lose market share as Vive users go elsewhere. Smart game developers will then leap on that opportunity, as the VR bandwagon is going to take off like a rocket. It'd just be VERY unfortunate for Frontier, as I've been a huge backer for their efforts as an old '84'er.

We'll see where things go. Hoping for the best.

 

[JonnyBigBoss]

Got my Vive yesterday... planning to give Elite a shot tonight with it. I'm somewhat dreading what I've been reading about, but we'll see. Even if it looks semi-crappy, I'll still play the darn game in VR to get my fix in the interim.

I'm optimistic the issue will get fixed, but its a matter of -when-. Frontier is super busy with 2.1 and their timeline. I get a feeling they want to keep pushing things forward on that front, especially since 2.1 was rather notably delayed. The game needs evolving content to retain players.. and the mission system has been quite lacking, which 2.1 is suppose to address. They need this release soon or they could lose their grasp and market share. However, Frontier must keep in mind. VR is out now. There are a lot of other games out there. New games are on the way. Frontier needs to keep ahead of the curve.

Frontier's comment per the link earlier about the Vive, it was stated: "We are certainly looking to address". The cynic inside of me sees that as 'we are going to look at it', rather than 'we are actively looking at it'. Thus why I think its slated to get attention AFTER 2.1. Just my gut feelings...

I'm keeping my Vive. I'm enjoying it IMMENSELY in other games. I'm just waiting for Frontier to remedy the issue. If they don't, they don't. It just means they will lose market share as Vive users go elsewhere. Smart game developers will then leap on that opportunity, as the VR bandwagon is going to take off like a rocket. It'd just be VERY unfortunate for Frontier, as I've been a huge backer for their efforts as an old '84'er.

We'll see where things go. Hoping for the best.

Good luck. I hope it doesn't bother you as much as it bothers me. The flickering everywhere due to unsharp lines and difficult to read text is a real downer.

 

[Kroy]

Daniel O'Brien @ HTC didn't have much to add regarding Elite Dangerous. He's a busy man, so when I'm not #wheresmyvive or #wherestheirvive I'm happy that he answers. He thinks that "Frontier is a great team". And that "We can always point them to the issues as well" which is what he said when I had a very brief twitter exchange with him. Very diplomatic. Reading between the lines with the accuracy of a drunken solicitor, I'm thinking that until Vive users reach some sort of critical mass, we're not going to see much in the way of speedy progress. Which is just echoing what's been said above already. Perhaps we need a march on Cambridge. Where's mobius when you need a catchy image to front a campaign?!

 

[Lestenio]

OK, good to know they own a vive. still wondering how consumers where the ones who had to discover the problems.

Probably because (in my experience at least) the SteamVR software is flakey as hell. It updates without warning to the latest version and seems to have dozens of bugs. When using it in conjunction with the Rift, updates would render it unusable. Alternative flashing in each eye or randomly changing the screen resolution were just some of the many problems I encountered.
None of which FD were responsible for.

 

[cygnusa]

Probably because (in my experience at least) the SteamVR software is flakey as hell. It updates without warning to the latest version and seems to have dozens of bugs. When using it in conjunction with the Rift, updates would render it unusable. Alternative flashing in each eye or randomly changing the screen resolution were just some of the many problems I encountered.
None of which FD were responsible for.

My first day using SteamVr... yes, flaky is an understatement. It works but its rough around the edges.

-game tracks fine... HMD inexplicably goes gray as if it has tracking errors: I had games go gray on me multiple times over a few hours. Restarting the game gets it working again. SteamVR shows tracking as fine. Restarting SteamVr seems to have lessened the issue (so far)
-GTX 970 has three vid ports. Two HDMI, one DVI. Vive only worked on the DVI. Wouldn't work on either HDMI with DVI adapter. I had to juggle my primary monitor over to an HDMI port to plug the Vive into the DVI.
-Sync'ing seems occasionally quirky with lighthouses, especially quirkly the first time for setup.
-Installed Vive.. had to remove USB drivers (using SteamVR) and resinstall before the Vive worked.
-Flashing controllers/lighthouses can sometimes take multiple tries before it finally flashes. Using remote mode (I may have the terminology wrong there), not direct.

 

[Lestenio]

My first day using SteamVr... yes, flaky is an understatement. It works but its rough around the edges.

The StreamVR software is my biggest worry with the Vive.
With the DK2 via Steam, SteamVR crashes out every 30 minutes or so, forcing a full boot.

My Vive arrives tomorrow, I hope it's a better native experience, but Stream could do with some QA on the VR updates for sure.