The Star Citizen Thread v 4

[Vasious]

lol, btw if it was actually ARMA announcing the game CoD did, now that would be interesting as we know, they would want to take things outside the "casual" bubble, cause for men, you have Arma. hehe

Bohemia Interactive, ARMA is the game and I don't think makes other games...

-SQ42 will have an open world quest system where there will be no guiding at all. You will have to go out and FIND the next part of the main story. .

Forum sarcasm and hyperbole aside, I really hope not.
You are clearly a newly minted Pilot, on your first assignment, I really dislike the part of Open world, where you have the weird ability to go off book, when you are clearly no one special, and don't have the luxury of time nor the authority to go off to do side missions that don't come down the chain of command.

 

[MarktJones]

I like that one, they do know their ships!

Looks like something out of a kinder egg to me. I don't like many of their ships though. One looks like a 1950s American car with a green houses stick on the front.

 

[Mu77ley]

I don't believe CoD will be able to please the people who expect more a space sim aspect, and a non-casual gameplay.
CoD is literately a game made for children so they can't go that path. It's more of a FPS game + Space, while SQ42 is Space game + FPS.

Most of the people who wanted more of a space sim aspect and non-casual gameplay have already given up on Star Citizen as it's been going the complete opposite direction for several years now, starting with the FPS turrets in space flight model...

 

[Viajero]

*Mod hat off

That's not much of an excuse. Many game development teams form from the ground up and start with nothing, lease office space, hire staff. They don't use it as an excuse almost five years into a project.

" with usually already one engine created to build the game on"

Er, like CryEngine? No, because they modded it like every single game development company does with engines they use and need to alter to fit their project, it somehow doesn't count. He had CryTek make the damn prototype. Then hired a lot of CryTek. That DOES count as having an engine already along with folks familliar with it. You can't simultaneously claim that as an advantage AND a disadvantage when the argument calls for one.

It happens in this thread constantly depending on what point needs to be defended. The CryTek engineers! Frankfurt! Oh we have such huge German brains that know the engine inside and out! They helped make the engine!

What's that? Things are falling behind? We had to mod the engine! We don't have an advantage like the Cobra engine! OH WOE!

Hear , hear.

 

[lysan]

Most of the people who wanted more of a space sim aspect and non-casual gameplay have already given up on Star Citizen as it's been going the complete opposite direction for several years now, starting with the FPS turrets in space flight model...

Those people went to ED or RS or waiting for I:.

 

[Toumal]

CIG started with no company, no offices, and so on. They are not building one ambitious game by itself, they had to build a company from the ground-up at the same time building the game.

You make it sound like they had to lay bricks and do the roofing themselves
Here's a hint: It's not actually that big of a deal. Lots of new companies with rapid growth do this. And because time is money, normal companies get this done in a jiffy. In the real world, nobody would buy such an excuse.

It happens in this thread constantly depending on what point needs to be defended. The CryTek engineers! Frankfurt! Oh we have such huge German brains that know the engine inside and out! They helped make the engine!
What's that? Things are falling behind? We had to mod the engine! We don't have an advantage like the Cobra engine! OH WOE!

My problem with the whole SC fanboy defense in a nutshell. And mind you, neither should FD be defended for being late with Engineers because "it's such an awesome update" - we don't know yet, and truth be told I'm pretty sure I won't be much elated when the beta drops tomorrow.

You can't win with facts or logic however. Same with the whole debate about when which project started development. As someone said in this thread, Elite started development in 1859 so any flaws in SC can be excused because really, five years is nothing, and with some twisting of facts SC has just been in development for a total of six months. Or as some Star-Citizen-Forum dweller put it: "We are actually ahead of schedule".

Dilbert summed it up nicely: "People are just fish plus time."

 

[lysan]

You make it sound like they had to lay bricks and do the roofing themselves
Here's a hint: It's not actually that big of a deal. Lots of new companies with rapid growth do this. And because time is money, normal companies get this done in a jiffy. In the real world, nobody would buy such an excuse.



My problem with the whole SC fanboy defense in a nutshell. And mind you, neither should FD be defended for being late with Engineers because "it's such an awesome update" - we don't know yet, and truth be told I'm pretty sure I won't be much elated when the beta drops tomorrow.

You can't win with facts or logic however. Same with the whole debate about when which project started development. As someone said in this thread, Elite started development in 1859 so any flaws in SC can be excused because really, five years is nothing, and with some twisting of facts SC has just been in development for a total of six months. Or as some Star-Citizen-Forum dweller put it: "We are actually ahead of schedule".

Dilbert summed it up nicely: "People are just fish plus time."

I totally agree regarding FD and ED, well I agree with the other stuff you wrote but this is kind of important.

FD and ED should be judged by their results, however they have until now delivered what they have announced they would. They delayed 2.1 patch and now its coming out. We actually don't know is this is going to be awesome, or just a good add on. We will know, in the next few month.

 

[MaxLexandre]

Most of the people who wanted more of a space sim aspect and non-casual gameplay have already given up on Star Citizen as it's been going the complete opposite direction for several years now, starting with the FPS turrets in space flight model...

Well the casual peeps i saw playing Star Citizen complain the FM it's too complex and too hard, aka, not casual enough. SC is clearly not going to the path of one hardcore space sim, but it isn't going to casual space sim either, that's pretty much what i like about it, ED is here for who wants focus on space sim with height on the actual sim without the gameplay layers unrelated to its space sim aspect SC is going for.

You make it sound like they had to lay bricks and do the roofing themselves
Here's a hint: It's not actually that big of a deal. Lots of new companies with rapid growth do this. And because time is money, normal companies get this done in a jiffy. In the real world, nobody would buy such an excuse.

For the project SC is, taking years to staff up and open offices is not a big deal that affected the game? Dear lord, they only pushed on Engineering staff last year with the Germany office, it was so clear the whole CIG was severely lacking Engineers and was stuck on engine rewrites... Those guys should have been on the project since the start!! Not sure though if the development was lacking engineering as a whole or if CIG was outsourcing it to other companies.

 

[ianw]

Well the casual peeps i saw playing Star Citizen complain the FM it's too complex and too hard, aka, not casual enough. SC is clearly not going to the path of one hardcore space sim, but it isn't going to casual space sim either, that's pretty much what i like about it, ED is here for who wants focus on space sim with height on the actual sim without the gameplay layers unrelated to its space sim aspect SC is going for.

So would you say it's going for just the right amount of SIM then?

Extraordinary how they manage to get things just right.

 

[Aleksej]

And yet again CR and CIG are coping ED and FD more and more, that is kind of funny.

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I like that one, they do know their ships!

The games are of the same genre, naturally there are going to be a lot of similarities, however, I would not call that copying.

CIG are definitely following FD progress closely, and are adapting SC appropriately, trying to avoid some controversial decisions.

Those people went to ED or RS or waiting for I:.

A lot of people received the refunds and are waiting for SQ42/SC to be released. Then they are going to decide whether it is worth getting back or not.

 

[MaxLexandre]

So would you say it's going for just the right amount of SIM then?

Extraordinary how they manage to get things just right.

I said far we see, what even the updates they did show on some stuff as the FM, it is not casual, it is not hardcore either.

On other bits we're yet to see as things get delivered, far even QA's go like last one with Sean Tracy, several mechanics do are being simplified from that super duper hardcore max fidelity detail ideas from the older designs.
The game needs to be fun, not that obsession with realism some people have, it just needs to be believe able.

 

[lysan]

The games are of the same genre, naturally there are going to be a lot of similarities, however, I would not call that copying.

CIG are definitely following FD progress closely, and are adapting SC appropriately, trying to avoid some controversial decisions.

True, however it's still funny that SC went from, no PG or very little PG, to lets make whole planets with wildlife and weather patterens.
The original idea was very very different from what it was back in the KS days and even until 2014. Then it became more and more in the direction of how FD and ED was designing their game.

A lot of people received the refunds and are waiting for SQ42/SC to be released. Then they are going to decide whether it is worth getting back or not.

Yes, I'm one of them, but until now its still a mess and far from interesting. However I'm very interested in what those magical Germans can pull out of their programmer hats.

 

[Aleksej]

True, however it's still funny that SC went from, no PG or very little PG, to lets make whole planets with wildlife and weather patterens.
The original idea was very very different from what it was back in the KS days and even until 2014. Then it became more and more in the direction of how FD and ED was designing their game.

Yes, I'm one of them, but until now its still a mess and far from interesting. However I'm very interested in what those magical Germans can pull out of their programmer hats.

Going to PG seems logical for me actually. I wonder how much time would they spent handcrafting all the systems, planets etc.

 

[MaxLexandre]

Going to PG seems logical for me actually. I wonder how much time would they spent handcrafting all the systems, planets etc.

They still are hand-crafting the systems and planets, in terms of systems they have already said how it works with the modules, their several sets and their generation, the sets are hand-crafted, PG does the rest. The land-able areas as arccorp, those are the most of the hand-crafted work as they forcefully need to. With them already having setup the systems, how the planets look, their lore, etc.. etc.. It's not "throw PG and do all", it's still a ton of hand-crafted assets work.

Meaning is, the whole layout and setting has to be hand-crafted, independent that PG will come in when it comes to do things as a whole modular space station.

Also it's frequent people wrongly getting the idea that the PG Planets are replacing the hand-crafted land-able areas and things like that, i remember Sean Tracy on Discord he almost went CAPS mode into how this are 2 different things.

 

[Aleksej]

They still are hand-crafting the systems and planets, in terms of systems they have already said how it works with the modules, their several sets and their generation, the sets are hand-crafted, PG does the rest. The land-able areas as arccorp, those are the most of the hand-crafted work as they forcefully need to. With them already having setup the systems, how the planets look, their lore, etc.. etc.. It's not "throw PG and do all", it's still a ton of hand-crafted assets work.

Meaning is, the whole layout and setting has to be hand-crafted, independent that PG will come in when it comes to do things as a whole modular space station.

Also it's frequent people wrongly getting the idea that the PG Planets are replacing the hand-crafted land-able areas and things like that, i remember Sean Tracy on Discord he almost went CAPS mode into how this are 2 different things.

Well, it's understandable that they are not going to throw out all handcrafted stuff. However, I am almost certain that they are going to use PG and then manually alter it later for future content.

 

[MaxLexandre]

Well, it's understandable that they are not going to throw out all handcrafted stuff. However, I am almost certain that they are going to use PG and then manually alter it later for future content.

What i'm trying to say is it seems people are thinking here that PG on SC, means something like PG like ED.

PG on SC is pretty much a "filler" to what is already hand-crafted (exception of the actual PG Planets). For example you have the Starmap, the Planets already have their layout, setting, and even lore setup, so they here have to hand-craft the layout, and then they can use PG to pull off that X planet with the X setting as the layout they already have did set before. What i'm saying is that the skeleton of the systems have to be hand-crafted to the setting they want, then using PG. Then there's things like the NPC AI around the systems and stations, the missions, etc.. etc.. it's another side of the system design content that needs hand-crafting.

Several months ago, remember somewhat about Hurston landing zone being created with PG already, what far said it's around 50% PG - 50% Artist Work (statement about where does the landing zones pipeline stands currently on that matter):

[video=youtube;TaZJdijl50I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaZJdijl50I[/video]


So it's not about "let's PG everything!", neither it is "let's hand-craft everything!", they are doing both. If they decided let's full PG everything on all new content, then it's likely we would notice a quite a quality gap in-between that content. I'd prefer them to release a small number of well-crafted systems by 1.0, over release 100 in a rush-job to call it done.

 

[Jezzah]

I truly truly hope that SC does PG with a much lighter hand than FD have with ED. It's one thing I utterly detest about ED. That universal feeling that everything has passed through a set of homogenising sameness repeated everywhere throughout the game. That's due to ED and it's unwieldy size of the game in terms of area.

With SC having 100 or so systems I'd expect that in the main it would be handcrafted in the popular areas like landing zones, cities etc.

 

[lysan]

I truly truly hope that SC does PG with a much lighter hand than FD have with ED. It's one thing I utterly detest about ED. That universal feeling that everything has passed through a set of homogenising sameness repeated everywhere throughout the game. That's due to ED and it's unwieldy size of the game in terms of area.

With SC having 100 or so systems I'd expect that in the main it would be handcrafted in the popular areas like landing zones, cities etc.

First you need to understand what PG is, we only have rocky and icy planets in ED, they will look alike, just as they do in the real world.
If you have seen one desert on Earth you have seen them all right? The only way you can break that picture is to do something that ain't natural. The footage I've seen from SC is absolutely fantasy, like floating rocks on a small moon wit an atmosphere. However yes, it look pretty. Again that is where SC become bipolar or maybe schizophrenic, and simply don't know what it want to be.

I'd havde many discussions over at the RSI forum in the past, and no no no no no, ED is only stupid boring PG, everything in SC will be handcrafted, now its the magic Germans and their wonder PG magical hats that will save the universe, I simply find it overwhelmingly amusing.

 

[MaxLexandre]

I'd havde many discussions over at the RSI forum in the past, and no no no no no, ED is only stupid boring PG, everything in SC will be handcrafted, now its the magic Germans and their wonder PG magical hats that will save the universe, I simply find it overwhelmingly amusing.

What i hate more is the dependency of PG on the creation of universe SC is to a point, SC will end up facing the same problem. I'm not even that interested into the PG planets on SC as from what they describe it is again, a lot of "vanity", with not much gameplay to it, so i guess this will be more like ED, a base to all they may do with PG Planets on the future...

 

[PiLhEaD]

I truly truly hope that SC does PG with a much lighter hand than FD have with ED. It's one thing I utterly detest about ED. That universal feeling that everything has passed through a set of homogenising sameness repeated everywhere throughout the game...

I'm vaguely on the same page, 'detest' would be overstating, 'would like variety improved' would be my angle on it. Similarly ED's lack of rocky cliff-faces and sharp-edged cliff tops I find a tad 'underwhelming'. For example, I like the terrain I see in the Infinity Battlescape vids - it just looks a lot 'more real' to me.

All that said, with 400Bn systems - even in the real galaxy - it may be that eye-candy levels of variety is in short supply - one only has to see pictures of Mars' surface.

Given how FD with the engineers' bases have gone for hand-crafted bases plonked (technical term) on a PG planet, much like where SC now seems to be heading, it seems that 'common problems breed similar solutions' - and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Anyway, here's hoping both games can hit the sweet spot with variety and prettiness - and let's see what 2.1 brings us.

All in all, happy days, and doubly-so come late June... :x