Vive vs Rift: Help me decide what to buy!

CATPAIN KIRK

CATPAIN KIRK
Soda Popinski said:
Fantastic Contraption looks stupid, but it's really a lot of fun and very challenging. Have you given that one a chance? You probably have it bundled with the Vive. Call of the Starseed: The Gallery is a relatively polished looking game, but is fairly short (episode 1). That was both a great experience and a decent puzzle game. Vanishing Realms has been my friends' favorite so far, as we've all played through it and are once more waiting for the next chapter.

My Rift just arrived back at home, so I'll be giving that a try. I'm looking forward to Chronos and a better Elite: Dangerous experience.
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Fantastic Contraption is great as a concept. Played it for a few hours but it looks like Teletubbie-land. Make it a Leonardo da Vinci death-contraption game set in a deep political 15th century background simulation with accurate physics and photorealistic graphics and I'm sold.

Not too fond of stylized japanese green cats leaving pink farts in a dumbed down version of smurf-vilage, but I guess Steam and Facebook analysts found out that's just me.
 

[VR] Mad Mike

[VR] Mad Mike
CATPAIN KIRK said:
Last but not least, there are no proper games for either device. Oculus has the better looking ones, but they're designed for the Xbox controller/third person. Both properties diminish motion sickness due to removing the feeling of presence, which actually is the point of VR.

The Vive doesn't fare any better. Tons of experiences/demos looking like Lego or Teletubbies, Arkanoid clones and brainless rail shooters.
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give it chance.... they have only been out a little while! ;)

That being said i think there are loads of great games for my rift, sure most are cockpit based but even so

ED, ETS2, pCARS, no limits 2, (Flyinside)FSX, DCS2, luckys tale, EVE V, Windlands, Shufflepuck Cantina, Time MachineVR, Blazerush, ATS2, PinballFX, defence grid 2, the climb, chronos, warthunder, .... I am sure there are way more as well.
(coming any time now - Assetto Corsa, DiRT Rally, VR Arcade)

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Soda Popinski said:
So late getting in the game with your Riva TNTs and 3DFX Voodoo cards. I had the Diamond Edge 3D,.
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I had a diamond edge as well, and an S3 Virge also the original matrx Apocalypse 3D power vr card which came with ultimate race demo which was amazing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJKradGC9ao

I eventually accepted 3DFX had "won" so then bought a 6mb canopus voodoo 1, before going to voodoo 2, then joined the nvidia hypetrain getting a TNT and then the very 1st geforce DDR (which was way better than the SDR version)

looking back it has been a fun ride.
 
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popuptoaster

P
grammatonfeather said:
Vive isn't uncomfortable. That's amateur journalist nonsense (weak-necked hipsters). I have the DK2 and Vive. Vive is slightly heavier especially at the front but there is nothing uncomfortable about it.

Setup with CV1 certainly simpler but really all I had to do with Vive was drill 4 holes in 2 walls and mount the wall clips. The laser boxes attach very easily and can be angled.
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Aah i didn't say the Vive was uncomfortable, just that the Rift has better comfort levels, this is something many back to back comparisons mention but is also purely subjective depending on the size and shape of your head and face, for me the rift is more comfortable than the Vive.

I also dont want to add more stuff fixed to the walls of my room or have extra shelves or stands for the laser trackers so the simpler "plonk stuff on the desk" approach works better for me personally, again i'm not saying the Vive is bad, just that foe me, the rift way is more what i want from a VR headset.

This is what I mean by fans and brand wars, if the Vive is better for what you want then you tend to hear any points put forwards for the Rift as criticism of your choice, it wasn't meant that way.

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Here is an unbiased back to back long(ish) term comparison from a couple of guys who've been using the VR stuff for a good while. It may help anyone who still isn't sure, but as they say try them both before buying one.

[video=youtube;EBieKwa2ID0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBieKwa2ID0[/video]
 
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VR Cmdr Paine

VR Cmdr Paine
Project Cars HTC Vive Bathurst and Brands hatch
​

After all the incredible roomscale fun I've been having the past few weeks thought I'd give a seated game (other than Ed) a go.. had to share this was a great experience in the Vive as good as it looks and a great example of the Vive's seated ability, excuse the driving lol I was too busy gawking [woah]https://www.twitch.tv/xpainex/v/65722712 https://www.twitch.tv/xpainex/v/65732881
(980Ti with the Revive hack using Steam VR with OH running in the background).
Edit: the Fov is a lot bigger in the Headset especially with the sleep mask mod not sure why OBS capped it like that.. will have to check.
 
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Lestenio

L
One thing I noticed with the Vive lighthouse system is it totally messes up my Sky TV remote. As in, i can't change channel anymore. I have to turn the units off. Probably obvious when you think about it, but I spent the best part of a day changing remote batteries, deleting my TV setting and starting from scratch several times before having that eureka moment.
 

cygnusa

cygnusa
Soda Popinski said:
Fantastic Contraption looks stupid, but it's really a lot of fun and very challenging. Have you given that one a chance? You probably have it bundled with the Vive. Call of the Starseed: The Gallery is a relatively polished looking game, but is fairly short (episode 1). That was both a great experience and a decent puzzle game. Vanishing Realms has been my friends' favorite so far, as we've all played through it and are once more waiting for the next chapter.

My Rift just arrived back at home, so I'll be giving that a try. I'm looking forward to Chronos and a better Elite: Dangerous experience.
Click to expand...


I have yet to try Fantastic Contraption though I do have it... it seems like a neat concept but not necessarily my type of game (usually). I'm going to have a spring gathering of friends and plan to set up the Vive in the living room for some group games including Fantastic Contraption. Seems like it'd be fun in that context. I haven't gotten Call of the Starseed yet.. holding off for the Steam sales at this point. Only so much time and I already have a pile of games queued up to try.

In the meantime I'm prioritizing Elite as its just so cool in VR. :) Elite is my main VR game, and it should be. Even with the Vive quirks its quite playable. I've put in a good three days into ED VR so far. At first the text/resolution quirks were rather tolerable... but after a few days I am seeing a bit of mild eye strain. I can play the game... but as time goes on I'm becoming more eager for a fix. Its obvious the game is amazing in VR... but its like wearing a dirty or scratched pair of eyeglasses. Sure you can see... but the quality of what you see is reduced and bothersome.

Vanishing Realms is quite good. I prefer the puzzle/dungeon/combat aspect of Chap 1. Chap 2 is effectively arena-like and didn't grab my interest in the same way. I didn't get through Chap 2 yet. Its a -small- game, though its price point sort of reflects this. I consider it a very good proof of concept game. I am eager to see larger, possibly more open and substantive RPG titles. That being said, Legend of Luca is a really cool rogue-like RPG title as well. Neat concept. Simple but effective. Apparently someone has created a mod which greatly enhances the game. The game developer actually coded a modding interface just for the mod's creator. improving room variety and the overall game mechanics. I have yet to try, but plan to.

I'd like to try a few rift games, such as Chronos. But with so much to try out already playing around with Revive to get it working with the Vive hasn't been a priority. Heck by the time I get around to it, it may support natively for all we know.

These 'exclusive game' devs are essentially purposefully cutting out a good chunk of the VR market and thus their potential profits. In the end, the call of the cash will win and these exclusives will go away. VR will be a small(er)/niche and highly competetive market for a while yet. It'd be bad business for them to stick to their exclusive VR corner (whether Vive or Oculus). Imagine selling a keyboard that only worked on a specific PC manufacturer's computer and no others (through artificial self imposed restrictions). Yeah. I don't think that manufacturer would be able to maintain market share for long. Competing businesses that remain open platform will be far more profitable, they will be able to develop more content and will thus be more successful. Exclusivity is an out-the-door gimmick to funnel potential buyers to one platform or the next. I chose the Vive not because of technical aspects. I chose it because of their stance on keeping a more open platform. Oculus will come around, they have to or they will learn the hard way. I don't mean to sound harsh.. just personal opinion from someone who has been in the software industry (large scale enterprise applications) for about 20 years. Vr is new. The cards need to be played right at this delicate stage. I truly hope both VR systems succeed and complement one another. Competition is good.
 

Soda Popinski

Soda Popinski
Adam Lusardi said:
Wait till you see my FC trebuchet very 14th century.
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I want to see that. I tried to make a trebuchet for a few maps, but found other ways to beat them.

I think the coolest thing I've made in Fantastic Contraption was a buggy using a Rocker-Bogie system, like the Mars Rovers. Skip to 1:13
[video=youtube_share;4nbnns0T8HM]http://youtu.be/4nbnns0T8HM?t=74[/video]



CATPAIN KIRK said:
Fantastic Contraption is great as a concept. Played it for a few hours but it looks like Teletubbie-land. Make it a Leonardo da Vinci death-contraption game set in a deep political 15th century background simulation with accurate physics and photorealistic graphics and I'm sold.

Not too fond of stylized japanese green cats leaving pink farts in a dumbed down version of smurf-vilage, but I guess Steam and Facebook analysts found out that's just me.
Click to expand...

Sounds like a VR version of Besiege, which I'd also love. It would be great to do the builds at God scale, and get to see it work at people scale. Speak of Trebuchets and Mars Rovers, here are my builds of them in Besiege
[video=youtube;l9X2lwmiIDY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9X2lwmiIDY[/video]
[video=youtube;Vq74iaVrO8c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vq74iaVrO8c[/video]


Back to the main point. I got my CV1 last night and played a couple hours of Elite. Not surprisingly, smoother than the Vive, just like the DK2. Looks better than the DK2 (also not a surprise). All the space stuff, Coriolis stations and most of the planet surface was fine with the CV1 running on my 970 (most graphic settings set to high, which runs OK on the DK2). But it got really choppy landing at a surface spaceport. Again, I've got a 970 trying to run high graphics settings. Looks like the added resolution of the CV1 and higher refresh rate pushed it past what magic ATW could pull off. Guess I'll have to turn down the graphics, at least until I can get my hands on a 1080.

Comfort wise, feels a bit heavier than the DK2, but more comfortable over long periods than the Vive. I may need to find the best strap position still, as I still feel a bit of a squeeze. I feel more pressure on my forehead the way I've got the straps setup, after I tried to loosen the side straps a bit, so I think I need to figure out how to distribute the tension a bit more. Any looser, and it's hard to keep the thing centered and in the sweet spot.
 
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Adam Lusardi

A
Yes think I just "fired" the ball over all that mess...... but its got me hooked. One amazing thing I have noticed with the Vive is that even with a heavy head cold I can still play. I couldn't with the DK2 too much eye strain.
+1 VR rep BTW
 

shadragon

shadragon
Lestenio said:
One thing I noticed with the Vive lighthouse system is it totally messes up my Sky TV remote. As in, i can't change channel anymore. I have to turn the units off. Probably obvious when you think about it, but I spent the best part of a day changing remote batteries, deleting my TV setting and starting from scratch several times before having that eureka moment.
Click to expand...
Happened to me as well with my TV remote. Unplugging works best plus will save power and wear and tear.
 

CATPAIN KIRK

CATPAIN KIRK
Mad Mike said:
give it chance.... they have only been out a little while! ;)

That being said i think there are loads of great games for my rift, sure most are cockpit based but even so

ED, ETS2, pCARS, no limits 2, (Flyinside)FSX, DCS2, luckys tale, EVE V, Windlands, Shufflepuck Cantina, Time MachineVR, Blazerush, ATS2, PinballFX, defence grid 2, the climb, chronos, warthunder, .... I am sure there are way more as well.
(coming any time now - Assetto Corsa, DiRT Rally, VR Arcade)
Click to expand...

I'll certainly stick with VR for as long as it's available. All I'm saying is that it needs proper games. Now.

I've spent my 2000 hours in ED+DK2 over the past two years and I know I wont ever play any cockpit game without it anymore. However lots of customers will buy either device and they'll end up disappointed for different reasons. CV1 customers may find they have a pleasant experience playing third person games on a console controller in VR without getting motion-sick. Until they realise that it doesn't make a difference if you play them on a screen.

Using a Vive is an evolutionary step ahead, but all you get are good-looking "experiences" or proofs of concept looking like they're straight out of the nineties.

Soda Popinski said:
I want to see that. I tried to make a trebuchet for a few maps, but found other ways to beat them.
Sounds like a VR version of Besiege, which I'd also love. It would be great to do the builds at God scale, and get to see it work at people scale. Speak of Trebuchets and Mars Rovers, here are my builds of them in Besiege
Click to expand...

I actually own Besiege. However I wasn't so much referring to gameplay but rather presentation. That's a fundamental problem. There are games with good concepts (e.g. out of ammo) and good-looking experiences (like the blue) not including any gameplay at all.

Both go hand in hand - EA reiterating more of the same are just as terrible as hipster indie devs deciding to artificially make their game look like 8 bit graphics instead of using UE4 or Unity just to look edgy.


It's Virtual Reality, so don't make it look like 8-bit/Lego/Anime/Cartoons.
 

stripealipe

stripealipe
CATPAIN KIRK said:
Using a Vive is an evolutionary step ahead, but all you get are good-looking "experiences" or proofs of concept looking like they're straight out of the nineties.

It's Virtual Reality, so don't make it look like 8-bit/Lego/Anime/Cartoons.
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And why not?! I think anyone that has used the Vive would agree that the most simple of concepts have not only been, by far, the most fun to play but have also been the most immersive VR code they've come across. We've learnt time and time again that fancy graphics don't make a game... and c'mon... 'Virtual Reality' is but a moniker and in no way implying that's it's supposed to be, or should be, as real as in real life. You're traversing the galaxy at light speed and that just aint reality, ever probably... Should Elite stay in 2D because of that? ..
 
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SpitTheDog

S
CATPAIN KIRK said:
It's Virtual Reality, so don't make it look like 8-bit/Lego/Anime/Cartoons.
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Try too hard t make it photo-realistic and you get marked down that it isn't actually photo-realistic because the resolution per eye just isn't good enough in the current generation. Make it cartoony and you are forgiven for things you just aren't if you try harder.
 

resonic

resonic
Get Steam VR because Steam is the platform with a future. The closed Oculus platform and store somehow limits the possibilities.
 

bitstorm

bitstorm
SpitTheDog said:
Try too hard t make it photo-realistic and you get marked down that it isn't actually photo-realistic because the resolution per eye just isn't good enough in the current generation.
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With VR I don't think it's just about having 4x (3x more!) the pixels to suddenly push.

I'm no expert on it all but my understanding is some of the tricks game devs use don't work in 3d. Like those flat textures that are used, they look 3d but actually aren't, those don't look so good anymore in VR. Some dev shortcuts that are done to get better performance isn't available in quite the same way, also new issues like anti-aliasing which from what I've read is a big issue with VR, it's not just ED suffering with this.
 
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