I'm concerned – the direction of the game.

Aewarin Jameson

Aewarin Jameson
deusx_ophc said:
ops, that is a poor list built on a poor argument, terribly exclusive...

i have yet to scan a single ship... and why should i do so every single encounter in the finished game?! yes, once in while i will do to know more about them.

but only to know if the encounter is human or not?!

as i said, i play the game to play with or against humans. the ones shaping the ED galaxy. i have no stock in npc's, they are likely to be fodder on the way to elite. not much else.
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You have not had to yet as it's not in the game.

Read the DDF Archives .. you're a member of it :rolleyes:

(A bounty hunter has to scan prey PRIOR to attacking it ... Pirates technically dont, but if you attack an empty ship it the attack is pointless ..)

I think your T2 NPC friends may disagree with you there.

Your colours are showing - you want to mow down people* ... carry on ;)


ETA: I know you Deusx and hopefully you know I am joking about your intentions .. just having a laugh with you :)
 
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Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Robert Maynard
jabokai said:
Welcome to the new mini metagame. :rolleyes:
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Trying to be the least attractive target (or at least, no more attractive than the others) is a defence mechanism....

It's why birds flock and fish school - a predator may take one out but the chances of it being any particular one is significantly reduced.

I would like to be able to "flock" with NPCs without the "blue flashing light" that would massively increase my chances of being attacked by a player who preferentially targets other players.
 

jabokai

jabokai
Robert Maynard said:
Trying to be the least attractive target (or at least, no more attractive than the others) is a defence mechanism....

It's why birds flock and fish school - a predator may take one out but the chances of it being any particular one is significantly reduced.

I would like to be able to "flock" with NPCs without the "blue flashing light" that would massively increase my chances of being attacked by a player who preferentially targets other players.
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As I said, metagame. Not blurring the lines for immersion, but so you can game it.

You're like REALLY worried about other players eh? Honestly, they're not THAT bad... have you played other multiplayer games? And have you actually had such bad experiences with them?
 

deusx_ophc

deusx_ophc
Wolf said:
Yes, but NPCs will always act coherent to ingame lore. PCs not so much.
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not so sure, ofc certain type of npc must. though why not programm the psychopath npc :D

so that eventually the player cannot distinguish the pewpewpew npc and the pewpewpew pc. shows the lobsidedness of the argument ;)
 

Cmdr Eagleboy

Cmdr Eagleboy
deusx_ophc said:
as i said, i play the game to play with or against humans. the ones shaping the ED galaxy. i have no stock in npc's, they are likely to be fodder on the way to elite. not much else.
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I think this where big split comes up. I and others want NPCs to have actual meaning in ED. Game is huge, and frankly I don't expect lot of other pilots except for meetings and doing fun in Alliances with my community buddies. So NPCs can't be casual cannon fodder. Otherwise ED will be very boring grinding fest, and no amount of human pilots will be able to save it.

You seem to assume that no way NPCs will be a challenge or any way interesting. However FD wants you to create contacts with NPCs, helping them along the way. So NPCs will have rather important emphasis on what will happen around you.
 

Theaghan Black

Theaghan Black
They could develop a new kind of "aggressive scanning":
1- the player scans the area with a big and extended impulse.
2- he's immediately targetable by the other players in the area (he's shown on the scanner by a special icon, maybe a key can be pressed to cycle between players in that stance).
3- after 20 seconds the player will have the info of all the ships in the area (PC and NPC)

Being an aggressive scanning style, probably people will lock and scan him as precautionary reaction. Traders can choose to run away if they're afraid (but the guy could be still a bounty hunter).
 

Memnoch

M
Theagan Black said:
They could develop a new kind of "aggressive scanning":
1- the player scans the area with a big and extended impulse.
2- he's immediately targetable by the other players in the area (he's shown on the scanner by a special icon, maybe a key can be pressed to cycle between players in that stance).
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That sounds horribly like the implementation of scanning in X:Rebirth.

3- after 20 seconds the player will have the info of all the ships in the area (PC and NPC)
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That sounds a little OP to me.
 

Aewarin Jameson

Aewarin Jameson
Theagan Black said:
They could develop a new kind of "aggressive scanning":
1- the player scans the area with a big and extended impulse.
2- he's immediately targetable by the other players in the area (he's shown on the scanner by a special icon, maybe a key can be pressed to cycle between players in that stance).
3- after 20 seconds the player will have the info of all the ships in the area (PC and NPC)

Being an aggressive scanning style, probably people will lock and scan him as precautionary reaction. Traders can choose to run away if they're afraid (but the guy could be still a bounty hunter).
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An interesting alternative ... could use some refinement but has possibilities.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Robert Maynard
jabokai said:
As I said, metagame. Not blurring the lines for immersion, but so you can game it.

You're like REALLY worried about other players eh? Honestly, they're not THAT bad... have you played other multiplayer games? And have you actually had such bad experiences with them?
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It's a game - made up of different elements - and I am using no out of game information, indeed I am ignoring the fact that there is a distinction between the pilots in PC and NPC ships.

Not *really* worried, more wanting to be able to weigh up the pros and cons of existence in the All Group - with CoD type players who have no regard for in-game reasoning being high on the list of cons.

I have not played online games for a number of years now due to time commitments negating regular opportunities for group play. Those games I did play were predominantly PvE.

Bad experiences, some - mainly frustration at players disregarding the game itself to cause grief by not actually playing and simply obstructing others gameplay and causing damage for the sake of it regardless of the effect it had on their game.
 

Yaffle

Volunteer Moderator
Yaffle
jabokai said:
I do accept, of course, that there are people who simply want this obfuscation for game world reasons and I cannot really argue with that as it's just a different point of view, not right or wrong.
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I feel the same, but the from the other side.

For me not knowing enhances the game, it enhances the idea that I am small and insignificant, I may be alone amongst NPCs or I may be in a crowd of players. Whichever way, I am very small.

Having PCs instantly identifiable makes them, in my mind, more important than NPCs, which ruins it for me. I could have Duval the Emperor himself as an anonymous NPC blip amongst ten other blips, but a day one 100CR just launched sidewinder highlighted. I can’t get my head around what is so special about the sidewinder from my game point of view. Players should be small and insignificant in the universe, not special.

The problem is that it’s not possible to meet both of our points of view, despite them both being valid. If there was a toggle to “show humans instantly” I’d turn it off, you’d turn it on. I get my immersion, you get yours. The issue is (and much like the third person view argument) it would be used by the nefarious few for their own unsavoury ends. Is the compromise acceptable? Not really. Can I think of a better idea? No, I cannot.
 

Cmdr Eagleboy

Cmdr Eagleboy
Theagan Black said:
I personally like the inability to recognize the PC from NPC.. But I also know players who actively want a PvP interaction and despise any kind of AI.
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Then they will be hard time in a game which will be NPC dominant. Sometimes game is just not what do you want to play, and that's fine.
 

jabokai

jabokai
Robert Maynard said:
It's a game - made up of different elements - and I am using no out of game information, indeed I am ignoring the fact that there is a distinction between the pilots in PC and NPC ships.

Not *really* worried, more wanting to be able to weigh up the pros and cons of existence in the All Group - with CoD type players who have no regard for in-game reasoning being high on the list of cons.

I have not played online games for a number of years now due to time commitments negating regular opportunities for group play. Those games I did play were predominantly PvE.

Bad experiences, some - mainly frustration at players disregarding the game itself to cause grief by not actually playing and simply obstructing others gameplay and causing damage for the sake of it regardless of the effect it had on their game.
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Well, I too don't want CoD in space either, far from it - EVE Valkyrie should satisfy the mindless PvP itch, if I get that itch.

As mentioned previously, I'd prefer to see mindless killing dealt with more elegantly. To me, hiding is just cutting off your head to get rid of a zit (other analogies are available... something about your nuts and a sledgehammer... doesn't sound too pleasant though.) Do you not think that it can be done so that random killings are fairly minimal? Or do you basically have an absolute zero tolerance for "psychotic" behaviour?

We probably have a lot in common (i.e. wanting game actions to make some kind of sense) just differ in the implementation.
 

Olrik

O
Yaffle said:
For me not knowing enhances the game, it enhances the idea that I am small and insignificant, I may be alone amongst NPCs or I may be in a crowd of players....Having PCs instantly identifiable makes them, in my mind, more important than NPCs, which ruins it for me.
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Bingo :)
Robert Maynard said:
Players in the All Group with the transponder off will still get attacked - but the attacker (if another player) will not have been explicitly told that their target is a player.
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Certainly.
Well, you are not going to be attacked by some players. Those who attack-almost exclusively-human players. Example,
deusx_ophc said:
as i said, i play the game to play with or against humans.
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