List of combat loggers has reached 250 recorded loggers, with 322 total logs. Frontier, this is a problem

[EdzUp]

To be honest a relatively small number of logs won't kill the game after some of the logs could be rubbish connections which is beyond their control.

Also on a lighter note do you put NPC names on the list as I have had numerous NPC ships vanish mid fight (less lately).

I honestly think it's a storm in a teacup to point out its a major problem. Yes the p2p networking don't help the game nor would naming loggers unless they have been proven to combat log. I bet a portion of your list could be explained by power cuts, Internet dropouts or connections to fdevs servers glitches.

You will never solve the cable pull issue ever seeing as the router could be turned off. Or even dare I say it external forces like a power cut or Internet going down at the isp level. All of these things look the same in game so really it's beyond fdevs control.

If however a player is getting badly battered then keeps logging out that should be looked into. Or if they have a good ping time and as soon as they pvp they quit that also should be looked at.

 

[StevieG]

Combat logging is bad but so is getting a 6k fine for murdering a trade conda with a 15mil rebuy.

Fix the punishment for murder and combat loggers will log less and more players will play in open.

 

[frostypaw]

To be honest i don't really care if they choose wrong mode or whatever; they are in my sights and i do everything i can to blow them in to pieces.

Yeah you see this is where the problem lies.

You didn't even try and answer about knowing whether people quit legally or not - I think if FDev were to chime in they'd tell us almost all of these incidents are legal quits of people who'd already mostly run away as someone just kept going after them because of exactly what you just said.

This is why we need proper C&P for pointless player murder - a good whupping is enough of a defeat. No one cares that you don't get to see an explosion - just whether people enjoy the game and whenever someone's quit they're not enjoying it..

 

[Sole Hunter]

It would have an effect on those who do not Combat Log. It would also make leaving the game at short notice a real pain in the posterior simply because "exit" cannot be clicked until *after* the timer has expired.

There would seem to be no fix possible to stop players Combat Logging (otherwise I expect that Frontier would have done it already). The network architecture employed by the game means that there is no server to take over the departed player's ship as an NPC - that's why they disappear when the game clients of the other players in the instance decide that the P2P connection is broken. Sandro has stated that there is no "infallible arbiter" to take over the ship as an NPC - therefore other players' game clients are not to be trusted (and would not exist if the logger was the only player in the instance).

just increase the timer in a player-versus-player encounter in OPEN. It won't change anything for solo/private. How hard can that be.

1: increase the combat-logging timer in OPEN in a player-versus-player encounter.
2: increase the punishment for killing other players.
3: have fun running away from the cops.

 

[Commandr Sam]

It would have an effect on those who do not Combat Log. It would also make leaving the game at short notice a real pain in the posterior simply because "exit" cannot be clicked until *after* the timer has expired.

There would seem to be no fix possible to stop players Combat Logging (otherwise I expect that Frontier would have done it already). The network architecture employed by the game means that there is no server to take over the departed player's ship as an NPC - that's why they disappear when the game clients of the other players in the instance decide that the P2P connection is broken. Sandro has stated that there is no "infallible arbiter" to take over the ship as an NPC - therefore other players' game clients are not to be trusted (and would not exist if the logger was the only player in the instance).

Sorry I wasn't fully clear. I assumed the extended time would only apply to ships "in combat", how that is defined is obviously a problem in itself...

I am of the belief that FD have not done anything about combat logging due to back lash from the community, as we are seeing in this thread.

From a network point of view it is possible even on a P2P infrastructure to allow the detection of an unclean exit. As it stands now when a player combat logs the P2P host has to change anyway to allow the instance to continue.

 

[Kazacy]

Yeah you see this is where the problem lies.

You didn't even try and answer about knowing whether people quit legally or not - I think if FDev were to chime in they'd tell us almost all of these incidents are legal quits of people who'd already mostly run away as someone just kept going after them because of exactly what you just said.

This is why we need proper C&P for pointless player murder - a good whupping is enough of a defeat. No one cares that you don't get to see an explosion - just whether people enjoy the game and whenever someone's quit they're not enjoying it..

The real problem is with game modes. Killers like me and another players in this thread have only one mode available: open. PVE type players have two modes, solo and private, and on top of that they want to destroy open to be more "friendly".
Guess what, in my opinion this is the real griefing.

 

[Vasious]

just increase the timer in a player-versus-player encounter in OPEN. It won't change anything for solo/private. How hard can that be.

Well he was commenting on a 10 minute timer, which seemed to be a awful long time to wait to click the button.
You do have to wait for the countdown after all

But some increase, good as gold

 

[Karla]

After their invasion of Mobius we know exactly what they want:- Easy kills and salty tears.
The invasions made it very clear that they do not respect anyone else's way of playing the game and only want soft targets that offer little challenge.

Blimey, 21 pages and we're only now getting to the question I have been wanting to ask.

Who exactly are these combat loggers?

Are they commanders also looking to improve their combat skills and engage in a fair fight? I've been following the 1v1 PvP thread closely and no one there has combat logged. I've met up with other commanders to fight against and we've all enjoyed ourselves. We try not to kill each other but sometimes it happens by accident. And sometimes we know that the risk of it happening again is high but still none of us have considered combat logging. I've never combat logged and no one has ever combat logged on me. Nor do I expect it to happen. And many of those fights I know that I have lost despite not being blown up. But I don't mind because it has still been a useful and enjoyable learning experience.

So I'm thinking that those who complain most about combat loggers are people looking to boost their fragile ego. The problem is that we think of PvPers as a homogenous bunch. Whereas in reality we have the combat pilots, the pirates and the gankers / griefers. It seems to be the gankers who are most emotionally vested in seeing the explosions and 'mining the salt'. And ironically are the ones who are the saltiest of all when they don't get to club seals.

Sure genuine pirates will get frustrated from combat loggers because there was no need for it. The genuine combat pilot with genuine skills who has their opponent combat logging on them knows that they have won. They'll just see combat logging as somewhat pathetic. But the gankers are the ones who actually need to send people to rebuy screens and who get most frustrated when denied their meagre dopamine rush. And they're the ones most likely to see the combat logging because they're picking on easy prey who weren't looking for a fight.

It's ironic, but in martial arts in real life sim, the better you get, the less you need to destroy your opponent. Ultimately you end up not needing to fight at all because of the confidence you exude. If the gankers actually concentrated on improving their skill by fighting against skilled combat pilots (rather than ganked victims in PvE configurations who they then proceed to tell 'git gud') then combat logging would become less of an issue for them.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

Well he was commenting on a 10 minute timer, which seemed to be a awful long time to wait to click the button.
You do have to wait for the countdown after all

But some increase, good as gold

Increasing the timer might help a bit, but it won't change that much. Players still can kill the process.

Combat logging is a symptom of a problem, not the problem itself.

 

[Robert Maynard]

The real problem is with game modes. Killers like me and another players in this thread have only one mode available: open. PVE type players have two modes, solo and private, and on top of that they want to destroy open to be more "friendly".
Guess what, in my opinion this is the real griefing.

.... then it was Frontier that "griefed" those who prefer players as targets - by design - by giving players who do not enjoy being destroyed by other players two other game modes to choose from.

In what way are PvE players demonstrating "that they want to destroy open"?

 

[frostypaw]

The real problem is with game modes. Killers like me and another players in this thread have only one mode available: open. PVE type players have two modes, solo and private, and on top of that they want to destroy open to be more "friendly".
Guess what, in my opinion this is the real griefing.

You're just wrong - you think you're playing a game where you get to just kill other humans, it's just not that game. Just a simple confusion - you must have read it as a purely PvP game but feel free to check the website/box/whatever

If you want just killing other players you need to find a game with only other players in the galaxy

 

[Cosmos]

Increasing the timer might help a bit, but it won't change that much. Players still can kill the process.

Combat logging is a symptom of a problem, not the problem itself.

Cheating and exploiting is a big problem within gaming. Usually, a company has a no tolerance policy towards it and punishes those who do it. It would appear Frontier couldn't care less.

I can only imagine the outrage if NPCs started to magically vanish during combat. All this is yet a further slight towards anyone who engages in PvP. It leaves Open looking like a novelty, and Frontier looking like amateurs.

 

[Luniticisi]

The real problem is with game modes. Killers like me and another players in this thread have only one mode available: open. PVE type players have two modes, solo and private, and on top of that they want to destroy open to be more "friendly".
Guess what, in my opinion this is the real griefing.

Nope, "Killers like (You) and another players in this thread" also have two modes available .. you are totally free to create your own PvP only private group and if it is something that people are interested in they will join (Exactly what Mobius did) .. you have the same choices as everyone else.

 

[Cosmos]

You're just wrong - you think you're playing a game where you get to just kill other humans, it's just not that game. Just a simple confusion - you must have read it as a purely PvP game but feel free to check the website/box/whatever

If you want just killing other players you need to find a game with only other players in the galaxy

What has this got to do with the subject of the thread? Lets get back on topic.. Combat logging and cheating.

 

[Kazacy]

.... then it was Frontier that "griefed" those who prefer players as targets - by design - by giving players who do not enjoy being destroyed by other players two other game modes to choose from.

In what way are PvE players demonstrating "that they want to destroy open"?

"Legal" combat logging of course
"Proper" crime punishment, you really don't need this, just go get some guns and shoot back (if you don't like to shoot players please choose another mode).
Power play can be played from solo/private and influence open without any chance to pvp players to defend home systems.
These are the first on top of my head.

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

The real problem is with game modes. Killers like me and another players in this thread have only one mode available: open. PVE type players have two modes, solo and private, and on top of that they want to destroy open to be more "friendly".
Guess what, in my opinion this is the real griefing.

The thing is, Kazacy, there is only one real mode in this game and that is the PvE-oriented game called "Elite: Dangerous".

The three "modes" aren't really modes as such - they're just different levels of game client connectivity. There's absolutely nothing special about Open other than the game client can connect with other game clients within the PvE-oriented "Elite: Dangerous".

We're all playing the same actual game concept - or most of us are, apart from the ones who treat the game like it's Counterstrike-in-Space, which it wasn't designed as being such.

If Elite was supposed to be Counterstrike-in-Space, it wouldn't have anything like the background simulation as its backbone.

 

[TomP]

What I really can't relate to is why anybody choosing to play in Open would combat or menu log?

Seriously, what the hell are you doing there in the first place? On the few occasions my ship has gone boom due to other players, I take it on the chin, albeit after uttering a salty exclamation. The very idea of combat or menu logging is just... Can't say it, would get my wrist slapped.

But really.

I'd love to see more people in Open, because unlike the OP, I like a bit of positive player interaction. Not everybody in Open is a griefer/ganker/whatever. But by playing in Open you should bloody well accept the risk. Much as it pains me to agree with SDC there are some serious double standards evident in this discussion.

 

[Vorxian]

The real problem is with game modes. Killers like me and another players in this thread have only one mode available: open. PVE type players have two modes, solo and private, and on top of that they want to destroy open to be more "friendly".
Guess what, in my opinion this is the real griefing.

Come on Kazacy.. You're calling PvErs griefers who are destroying OPEN mode?

The mods will surely perma ban me for the thoughts I'd so love to retort with, but.. I'm civilized, and don't wish to see a 'forum insurance screen'.

ED isn't designed around PvP. As much as you're hell bent on sending players to the in game insurance screen (just because you can), there are players that will pull the plug on your pointless seal club (just because they can).

It's all there is to it. Eve is out there if you want a permanent opportunity to kill someone that has logged, and in EVE you have tools to disable ships permanently, and you can hold them permanently until you get bored and want to blow them up. It won't happen in ED.

It's as fair enough as it gets. It's only a game. Naming and shaming, and reddit hate lists, just goes too far for something that is supposed to be recreation.

:S

 

[Cosmos]

.... then it was Frontier that "griefed" those who prefer players as targets - by design - by giving players who do not enjoy being destroyed by other players two other game modes to choose from.

In what way are PvE players demonstrating "that they want to destroy open"?

Considering you recently said you value all modes your comments on this, which make excuses for cheating, say otherwise.

 

[Derath]

.... then it was Frontier that "griefed" those who prefer players as targets - by design - by giving players who do not enjoy being destroyed by other players two other game modes to choose from.

In what way are PvE players demonstrating "that they want to destroy open"?

By ignoring those two options to fly in open then ignore the consequences of their actions/inactions by pulling the plug.