Does FD really think this is "healthy" balance?

[Jex =TE=]

30 jumps is nothing to be honest

I just youtubed a FSD jump and it took 45 seconds to charge the fsd, then then the countdown, then the jump and then into the next system. It was a little slower but then you would still need to navigate your ship after each jump. If we dropped it to 30 seconds that = 15 minutes for your jumps.

Twice the FSD means 7.5 minutes - that's quite a lot of time to be spent doing nothing

 

[Jex =TE=]

At the end of the day it's a game, not a simulator. A game requires strength and weaknesses, challenges to overcome, etc. It's set up so all ships are good at some things but no ship's great at all things in order to give people various ways to "attack" the game. If they just put in a killer ship that could haul around ten times it's own mass, jump across the galaxy in a single bound, and fly so fast and manouver so well that it could fly circles around itself AND run away from itself all at the same time, there'd be no point to having any other ship. The correct paraphrasing of this thread is "I don't like the way FDev have balanced my favourite ship and I'm going to whine about it."

Look at other games... ever seen a war where soldiers can only move in straight lines and only attack an enemy whose at 45 degrees to them? Noone's bagging chess though, are they? When Monopoly was offered for publishing it was refused with publishes stating that it had "52 fundamental flaws", and it's gone on to become the most popular board game in history. Games aren't made on their accuracy, they're made on their fun - which generally is nothing more than being presented with nominal obstacles and utilising artificial rules to overcome them.

Having said that, I'd like to see the flight physics in ED tightened up a bit... but I'm a sim freak.

I've never once bought a ship because of jump range. I buy ships because I want to see what they're like and choose the ones I like the most.

Once that decision has been made, making me jump less or more balances what, exactly? What is it balancing? What part of the game does limiting jump range balance out?

 

[Sandmann]

I've never once bought a ship because of jump range. I buy ships because I want to see what they're like and choose the ones I like the most.

Once that decision has been made, making me jump less or more balances what, exactly? What is it balancing? What part of the game does limiting jump range balance out?

*sigh* Sorry, I forgot to mention that the game isn't just made to suit your individual playstyle.

 

[Jex =TE=]

*sigh* Sorry, I forgot to mention that the game isn't just made to suit your individual playstyle.

Nice dodge, actually it wasn't - answer the question

 

[micky1984]

You may as well give up now. There have been a LOT of threads detailing the absurdity of using FSD range as a balancing tool - seriously, trading a players time for the privelidge of using the ship they feel is best suited for a task? But there appears to be as many masochists on the forums as there are honk-jump haters so we will never agree

"Space is big" seems to be the recurring theme. Except space is considerably bigger in some ships than others, for reasons unclear to me.

because not all ships are the same if you had it your way we would be all flying the same boring ship with all the same weapons and all the same stats but even then you would still say something need balancing trot on to another game this is clearly not for you

 

[Jex =TE=]

because not all ships are the same if you had it your way we would be all flying the same boring ship with all the same weapons and all the same stats but even then you would still say something need balancing trot on to another game this is clearly not for you

Considering your arguments in other threads have been ridiculous and wrong, I'm not surprised to see you massively misrepresent Viking here in an attempt I can only describe as ridiculous given what he's written in this thread so far. If the objective here was to point out you don't have anything constructive to say, you succeeded brilliantly!

 

[Sandmann]

Nice dodge, actually it wasn't - answer the question

What question? There's no balance question there... do you think you should have unlimited jump range just because it has no impact on your playstyle?

 

[Jex =TE=]

What question? There's no balance question there... do you think you should have unlimited jump range just because it has no impact on your playstyle?

Answer the question - what is it balancing!

edit: I'll remind you what you wrote 10 minutes ago...

The correct paraphrasing of this thread is "I don't like the way FDev have balanced my favourite ship and I'm going to whine about it."

 

[VicTheButcher]

... Yes, because when we want to move cars around what we do is ship them in pieces to a local factory, assemble them there, and drive them to the lot for sale. Oh, wait, no, sorry, we don't do that, we put them in a bigger vehicle and ship them that way. Also, it's not like these multipurpose ships would suffer from allowing people to have something to allow combat vessels to travel. Like, the FDL and the Python are roughly equivalent in cost. And yet despite being a combat oriented ship the FDL doesn't really out preform the python significantly, and it has the added bonus of being more or less crippled for jump range. The same goes for the Corvette and the Conda. The corvette is even a little more expensive doesn't outperform the Conda in combat that much despite being nominally a combat ship, and limps alnt at roughly half the anaconda's.

to understand why this is very intentionally not the case for balancing AND by scientific basis, I would need to explain why a theoretical FSD has a range limited by the mass of anything around it
I am not going to do this
note that the mass of the corvette is more than double that of a conda and that frame shift drives are locked by mass

there is scientific basis for this so it makes sense no matter how you look at it

 

[Colonial Air Force]

Answer the question - what is it balancing!

edit: I'll remind you what you wrote 10 minutes ago...

The balance is trading one thing for something else. A C-17 can go a lot farther than an F/A-18 without refueling, but the former is nowhere near as fast or combat-capable as the latter.

In the game, if you're a trader or explorer, the C-17 is a better option, otherwise grab the Hornet and understand your range is limited without a carrier (I suspect the fighter deployment thing coming later will add that).

 

[Sandmann]

Answer the question - what is it balancing!

edit: I'll remind you what you wrote 10 minutes ago...

In the extreme instance you've artificially manufactured there's no balancing required as the limited jump range has no positive impact, and you've decided to limit yourself to that particular ship. You appear to be missing the point however that the same ship must also apply to the other 1.6 million players to whom balancing quite often IS important, and for whom having that ship with unlimited range would prove an unfair and distinct advantage and would result in EVERYONE playing that ship.

You however already knew that, you're just presenting this to try (unsuccessfully) to be clever.

 

[Derath]

What question? There's no balance question there... do you think you should have unlimited jump range just because it has no impact on your playstyle?

That doesn't work because exploration is one of the core gameplay choices behind the game and jump distance is pretty integral to how good an explorer ship is, the top end for jump distance has a very good reason to exist, its the bottom end thats irrationally gimped for no good reason.

(I realise that wasn't you that was making that point but i'm sure you get what i meant )

 

[Jex =TE=]

In the extreme instance you've artificially manufactured there's no balancing required as the limited jump range has no positive impact, and you've decided to limit yourself to that particular ship. You appear to be missing the point however that the same ship must also apply to the other 1.6 million players to whom balancing quite often IS important, and for whom having that ship with unlimited range would prove an unfair and distinct advantage and would result in EVERYONE playing that ship.

You however already knew that, you're just presenting this to try (unsuccessfully) to be clever.

Nope, you said it and your word salad is just trying to hide that. Your answer is = reasons. I don't find that particularly useful so we can call it there. We don't have anything further to discuss.

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The balance is trading one thing for something else. A C-17 can go a lot farther than an F/A-18 without refueling, but the former is nowhere near as fast or combat-capable as the latter.

In the game, if you're a trader or explorer, the C-17 is a better option, otherwise grab the Hornet and understand your range is limited without a carrier (I suspect the fighter deployment thing coming later will add that).

Jump distance balances nothing unless you care to give it a try and explain how it does within the game. Why does a trader need to jump further and your argument is ruined by the fact that Asp is the better explorer if all your doing is wanting to jump long distances but it's not as good for trading. That's why a T9 has huge cargo holds, you know, for trading. That's why if I was trading, I'd buy a cargo ship and not a viper - there's your balance. What do jump ranges have to do with it?

 

[Colonial Air Force]

Alright, why bother having different planets at all then? Traders can just sit in port and trade stocks and combat dudes can launch and have a grand melee outside the station. No one needs to jump anywhere, then, since jump distance suddenly amounts to nothing.

For that matter, every ship should be identical in every way, because there's no reason to have differences. The ultimate balance is complete similarity.

 

[Sandmann]

That doesn't work because exploration is one of the core gameplay choices behind the game and jump distance is pretty integral to how good an explorer ship is, the top end for jump distance has a very good reason to exist, its the bottom end thats irrationally gimped for no good reason.

(I realise that wasn't you that was making that point but i'm sure you get what i meant )

Yeah I got that bit too, but he already mentioned that he was just doing it to "look around" or some such thing, and I suspect if I'd gone down that road he would have jumped on me coz he'd already claimed he wasn't competitively exploring. He's trying to argue that because balance has no direct positive impact on him that it shouldn't be applied. Thing he's deliberately ignoring to try to make his case is that others ARE, so for everyone else balance IS important.

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Nope, you said it and your word salad is just trying to hide that. Your answer is = reasons. I don't find that particularly useful so we can call it there. We don't have anything further to discuss.?

hahaha you're kidding? "I don't like your reasoning so I'm going to throw an empty insult at you and then stick my fingers in my ears so I don't have to hear what you're saying"? Is that REALLY the direction you want to go? So you're doing the conversational equivalent of combat logging now? [haha] [haha] [haha]

 

[Jex =TE=]

Alright, why bother having different planets at all then? Traders can just sit in port and trade stocks and combat dudes can launch and have a grand melee outside the station. No one needs to jump anywhere, then, since jump distance suddenly amounts to nothing.

For that matter, every ship should be identical in every way, because there's no reason to have differences. The ultimate balance is complete similarity.

What has this got to do with anything? Because somebody wants longer jump ranges we should make everything the same? How on earth did you get to that????

Somebody wants longer jump ranges = MAKE EVERYTHING THE SAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No, it doesn't and how you got there I have no clue.

You also failed to answer the question on how it balances things but hey ho, it's a theme in this thread.

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hahaha you're kidding? "I don't like your reasoning so I'm going to throw an empty insult at you and then stick my fingers in my ears so I don't have to hear what you're saying"? Is that REALLY the direction you want to go? So you're doing the conversational equivalent of combat logging now? [haha] [haha] [haha]

You have no line of reasoning and once again, failed to answer the question. Either concede the point or provide an answer to further the conversation on because right now, you have nothing. - btw - this is the 3rd time I've asked now.

 

[Colonial Air Force]

Oh we're moving the goalpost now. Wasn't your original assertion that jump ranges should be equal? Now you just want them to be a bit longer?

 

[Jex =TE=]

Oh we're moving the goalpost now. Wasn't your original assertion that jump ranges should be equal? Now you just want them to be a bit longer?

Go back and find where I said that because I sure don't remember saying that's the direction the game should take - it's not either. It's also not an assertion, that would be my opinion that jump ranges should change. I was backing up others here who said an increase in ranges would be a good thing only to be met with vapid responses that really boiled down to nothing more than "I don't want it to be changed because I said so" even though plenty of points, far outweighing anything the other side had to offer, were made to support a change in jump distance

 

[Viking84]

because not all ships are the same if you had it your way we would be all flying the same boring ship with all the same weapons and all the same stats but even then you would still say something need balancing trot on to another game this is clearly not for you

Congratulations on not reading the whole thread before responding Your track record on understanding what others are saying is pretty poor, but I will try... As stated I enjoy the variety in Elites ships. The FSD range variation however leads to less variation in practise because I cannot stomach wasting time with honk-jumping so I am forced to fly an Asp.

And, as stated many, many times in this thread FSD range differs from every other balancing ship stat by only being related to time spent jumping, nothing else. That's why it is a poor balancing mechanic in many peoples eyes.

 

[Sandmann]

You have no line of reasoning and once again, failed to answer the question. Either concede the point or provide an answer to further the conversation on because right now, you have nothing. - btw - this is the 3rd time I've asked now.

Yes you keep on demanding an answer... don't you think you should ask a valid question first? I've twice addressed the invalidity of it but you keep stamping your feet and demanding I answer it.