Does FD really think this is "healthy" balance?

You know what I love about this thread?

2.1 drops tomorrow. If you want your FdL to jump further, then help is on its way. You'll need to use an FSD engineer, and it will take time, but with enough effort you can get 16ly+ out of a combat build FdL. And special effects don't feature in FSD upgrades, so it's less frustrating potentially than weapons.

And you know what this thread needs more of?

COWBELL!
 
I never said jump ranges should be made unlimited, nor did I say all ships should jump the same. Combat ships should honestly probably be able to jump farther than other ships from a balancing perspective cause they're so limited. All they can do is fight. Most of the multipurpose ships can do it all while almost performing as well as a fighter. A python *almost* matches a FDL in combat capability and exceeds it when facing larger prey. You're just not using logic. You've been brainwashed into thinking its balance when it's not. As has been said before, I should be buying a combat ship based on its internals, HP placement, and agility. Nobody ever said the FDL has to have cargo space. Trader ships should have lots of cargo space. Multi purposes should be good at everything but more expensive because of that. Fighters should be good at fighting. Powerful weapons and shields. Explorers should have high top end jump range and fuel. But something all these ships should share? A 20 LY +/- 2-5 LY in variation minimum jump range (with A rated modules and FSD). Nobody is asking for the FDL to be able to jump 40 LY.
 

Jex =TE=

Banned
Yes you keep on demanding an answer... don't you think you should ask a valid question first? I've twice addressed the invalidity of it but you keep stamping your feet and demanding I answer it.

The question is incredibly simple and yet you keep evading to answer it, just like your doing now. This is getting childish so perhaps as you can't answer, we should drop it all together?
 
The question is incredibly simple and yet you keep evading to answer it, just like your doing now. This is getting childish so perhaps as you can't answer, we should drop it all together?
If I am interdicted by a Viper while in an Asp, I know I can High-Wake away more than 20 LY and he will not be able to follow. That's one balance factor.
 
all ships need more jump range.

FD has said that players don't move around enough. Well maybe that's because re-fitting your FDL for travel and then making 30 jumps to go 200 ly (and then having to switch back to combat fit again) is the opposite of fun.
 
The question is incredibly simple and yet you keep evading to answer it, just like your doing now. This is getting childish so perhaps as you can't answer, we should drop it all together?

Since you seem incapable of asking a valid question there's no possibility of answering it. I explained twice why it was an invalid question, please reread. You might as well ask something like "How many pedalling fish can spoon a weathergate?" It's a meaningless question.
 
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Give thoose poor FDL-jumprange Sobbers a: "FDL-Launcher" - make them jump 100 ly and then explode because teh hull can't take it . And we all have pretty fireworks! weeeeeeeeeeee! :D
 
all ships need more jump range.

FD has said that players don't move around enough. Well maybe that's because re-fitting your FDL for travel and then making 30 jumps to go 200 ly (and then having to switch back to combat fit again) is the opposite of fun.

Think you'll find it's got more to do with FDev expecting players to have more interest in distance and less in combat when they first laid out the game.
 
all ships need more jump range. FD has said that players don't move around enough. Well maybe that's because re-fitting your FDL for travel and then making 30 jumps to go 200 ly (and then having to switch back to combat fit again) is the opposite of fun.
I think it's because there aren't many reasons to move around, the systems are all essentially the same thing. Why spend an hour moving around for no reason?
 

Jex =TE=

Banned
If I am interdicted by a Viper while in an Asp, I know I can High-Wake away more than 20 LY and he will not be able to follow. That's one balance factor.

This has already been answered by other people. It takes you 10 seconds to scan a HW. Good luck finding someone on the other side.

You also somehow didn't read anything here - if all ships get a LY buff, how does anything you asked make sense?

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Since you seem incapable of asking a valid question there's no possibility of answering it. I explained twice why it was an invalid question, please reread. You might as well ask something like "How many pedalling fish can spoon a weathergate?" It's a meaningless question.

Once again you fail to answer a perfectly simple question. You are not the arbiter of what's valid.

That's 5 times now.
 
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This has already been answered by other people. It takes you 10 seconds to scan a HW. Good luck finding someone on the other side. You also somehow didn't read anything here - if all ships get a LY buff, how does anything you asked make sense?
First off, scanning time and the balance thereof is an unrelated issue, don't conflate things. Secondly, it's because then you need to rebalance mission payouts based on distance, fuel consumption per jump (or increase fuel capacities for ships), cartographic data availability (current average jump distance for cartography is 20LY), trade data availability, trading routes and the BGS, all so you can artificially decrease the effective size of the bubble because you can't be bothered switching ships for long journeys or dealing with a reduced jump range. You're not thinking it through.
 
Well Python is a multi roll, and not as great at combat, though 2.1 does change that a good bit, but FDL still has a very big advantage in agility and speed, which is something combat needs, doesn't seem like it should be underestimated, I fly my FDL for combat stuff, python for 'general' missions but it is a significant difference when it comes to combat, heck the two extra utility points that the FDL do a lot.

If we do a comparing between python and FDL since they are in same price class, though python is quite a bit more expensive to outfit, and that's another difference, one thing is hull price, but python is the more expensive to outfit, nearly double in price to do so, that seems to be forgotten also? but how would you have it balanced if it were between FDL and python?


Sorry, sorry, missed the response.

Python is more expensive to outfit yus (it tops out around the 220-230 million point for a full A-fit with extras, the FdL around 135) but once it's A-rated there is almost nothing it can't do and have spare room to take up a hobby while it's at it. With the new Engineers and their tasty but power-hungry upgrades, the Python is effectively already future-proofed - A rate the power plant and it's a struggle to even make it break a sweat under most configs. Not saying this is a bad thing - a ship like that is awesome. It's fun. Okay, I do struggle to picture how it squeezes all that shininess into a medium size hull, but still. For versatility the Python cannot be beat, it can do anything with a bit of time and effort. I love it. Too many ships in ED's lineup after the first wave seem to have been built with the question "What drawbacks does this ship have?" being the first and foremost one on the drawing board.

The FdL is better at combat and has better shields and speed, but is worse in virtually every other department, especially as a long-term Swiss army knife. Balancing it against the Python as a price-point entry and for its own lore, I'd personally add the following:-

* One extra Class 5 internal slot.
* Increase fuel tank to 16 units.
* Add around 2 to 3 LY to jump range.

That's it. It's already a superlative fighter - those additions are for quality-of-life purposes. Enough to add a half-decent cargo bay sized for its hull or other useful internal system and make getting around on those VIP executive trips a pleasure rather than an exercise in pain. Before anyone tears my head off (I know how people get about FdL buff posts dammit! :p ), this is only an exercise in personal opinion! Also compare the FdL's internals to the Vulture's:-

FdL: 5, 4, 4, 2, 1
Vulture: 5, 4, 2, 1, 1

Same number of slots, but not a tremendous leap in performance compared to the leap in price - 51 million vs. 4 million. There's only 20 tons difference between the hulls, but the size-to-tonnage numbers for most of ED's ships doesn't make any kind of sense anyways. If we're going off price and progression, I wouldn't think expanding the FdL's performance like that would break the ship lineup at that cost bracket. It'd make for improved quality of life (not something you should be lacking in a ship that costs that much!), and still wouldn't be able to compete versus the Python at anything outside of killing stuff.

The problem with adding those numbers is the ship design mechanics. At the moment ED's ships are locked into a mechanical framework that basically forces balance passes and tweaks to adhere to its maths - and I'm not absolutely convinced that's a good thing. There are too many exponential numbers involved (a lot of module stats seem to double in certain values at each quality step). Personally I'd prefer each ship to be "hand crafted" so that things like internals, performance and mass could be adjusted precisely for balance and performance reasons and the finer points hand-waved so long as it seemed logical and consistent, rather than forcing ship balance through a series of convoluted hoops - but the dev's are much smarter people than I am and numbers are their thing [wink]

So, there you have it. That's how I'd balance and tweak the FdL if I could, as things stand. Bit wordy, sorry [big grin] The price drop and the agility/power plant buff did wonderful things for the hull, I just wish that fighter ships in general weren't so under-sold on their loadouts. It's like someone at Frontier thinks being able to shoot other spaceships in Elite is a bad thing [hotas]

Incidentally, I am also all for buffing and tweaking a whole load of the other ships too. I weep every time I see a Diamondback Explorer. Sometimes I can barely harvest their juicy bounties for the tears. Sometimes. Okay not really <.< >.>
 
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By increasing the FdL's FSD to c5 you would put the ship on par with the Asp X for jump range. Leave everything alone, and make your choice.
 
By increasing the FdL's FSD to c5 you would put the ship on par with the Asp X for jump range. Leave everything alone, and make your choice.

Didn't you read the bit where I said I know about the problems with tweaking the ships due to the ship design system? Goddamnit >.> Maybe I should get a loudhailer. Or write it all up in HUGE EMPHASIZED RED TEXT next time [hehe]
 
Wait is he serious? If so I'm a bit concerned...

Hey, xondk asked for my opinion and I provided it. I know my approach to ship design and balance is different from Frontier's, and I tend to think of things in the total picture rather than poking a few domino's and expecting the rest to stay standing. Don't worry though, I have no influence over the design process whatsoever. No need to be concerned :p
 
Hey, xondk asked for my opinion and I provided it. I know my approach to ship design and balance is different from Frontier's, and I tend to think of things in the total picture rather than poking a few domino's and expecting the rest to stay standing. Don't worry though, I have no influence over the design process whatsoever. No need to be concerned :p

Sorry, was talking about the OP suppose I should of quoted.
 
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