To be fair your actually doing exactly what most of the complaints about the AI are about just your in the right ship and they are in the wrong one
Doing what exactly?
Not being crap?
Discuss the AI here!
- Thread starter Agony_Aunt
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Doing what exactly?
Not being crap?
Yeah its not even that hard...No. Definitely NOT!
Like from time to time I'll encounter an enemy that won't shoot at me. It'll do all the maneuvers but won't fire a shot. I killed the first Python that did that but a second showed up laterin relation to the same mission and it didn't shot at all either. I just left that one and jumped.
So far it's only been NPC Pythons for me.
And for the first time EVER, I've had to retreat from a Deadly NPC Asp Scout today. I was so proud of Frontier Developments that I got misty.
I just killed a python that was ''elite'' ranked.
I mean its great , its fun and sometimes can even be hard , but its not impossible its just normal
Deleted member 38366
D
Whatever interdicts me now (higher Rank) I observe as about 250-400% more effective and dangerous than what I've seen in V2.0.
So far, no exceptions.
An ELITE Viper Mk.III NPC would have been a joke to take on in my Mining Clipper in V2.0.
Yesterday, it managed to strip my Shields and nab off 10% of the Military Hull in a lasting turn & burn fight (crap that thing was agile and spewed modded PAs like there was no tomorrow) .
A Wing of 3 of these? Bad news.
Deadly Anaconda?
Stripped Class 6 Shields off my Mil-Grade Python within 5 seconds. One set of modded PAs, hull down to 70% within 15sec.
Can't complain about that, didn't even get to complete my KWS before having to run.
Reports from other Players in my group basically all gave the same responses.
Low-tier NPCs seem not changed too much. High-Tier NPCs are now regarded as very lethal and pack a massive amount of firepower.
No fooling around with these. Those that did ended up with blown Canopy and 10-20% Hull at the nearest Repair facility in no time.
From tanking down and toying with them to max. FA off Afterburner-jousting and Chaff-spamming to deny at least some of the incoming firepower.
I see that as a rather drastic change; if high-tier NPCs were supposed to get a buff - holy hell, that sure worked.
At least that's what I observed so far.
The spread of NPCs is quite extreme now.
From the low-tier "toys" that still can be easily farmed - to heavily modded Battleships that dish out an insane amount of firepower and are ultra-aggro.
So far, no exceptions.
An ELITE Viper Mk.III NPC would have been a joke to take on in my Mining Clipper in V2.0.
Yesterday, it managed to strip my Shields and nab off 10% of the Military Hull in a lasting turn & burn fight (crap that thing was agile and spewed modded PAs like there was no tomorrow) .
A Wing of 3 of these? Bad news.
Deadly Anaconda?
Stripped Class 6 Shields off my Mil-Grade Python within 5 seconds. One set of modded PAs, hull down to 70% within 15sec.
Can't complain about that, didn't even get to complete my KWS before having to run.
Reports from other Players in my group basically all gave the same responses.
Low-tier NPCs seem not changed too much. High-Tier NPCs are now regarded as very lethal and pack a massive amount of firepower.
No fooling around with these. Those that did ended up with blown Canopy and 10-20% Hull at the nearest Repair facility in no time.
From tanking down and toying with them to max. FA off Afterburner-jousting and Chaff-spamming to deny at least some of the incoming firepower.
I see that as a rather drastic change; if high-tier NPCs were supposed to get a buff - holy hell, that sure worked.
At least that's what I observed so far.
The spread of NPCs is quite extreme now.
From the low-tier "toys" that still can be easily farmed - to heavily modded Battleships that dish out an insane amount of firepower and are ultra-aggro.
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No your sitting in the blind spot in a vastly more maneuverable ship exactly like you could do prior to 2.1, if you want to see the AI at its best go try it the other way round grab your conda/corvette (if you've got one obviously) and go fight vultures and other smalls.
The AI is extremely hard to buff in context to large ships without making them turret boats, i've always felt they were designed to reward players who aggressively combat them in small ships and thats exactly what your vids are doing, your abusing the strengths of your ship vs the weaknesses of theirs to the max.
For example the only way to combat a well piloted close range vulture is FA-off rotations with top or bottom turrets its maneuverability stats will always prevent it from fighting a close range vulture with fixed or gimbals. In essence large ships are setup to fight other large ships as a result they are extremely easy to kill in small ships - though it takes longer than doing the same in a large.
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Please report any bugs you find to QA, especially OP outfitting for NPC AI. It goes in circles in personal attacks that isn't even funny. Chill. Balance will be reached. Thargoids will be put in check. Farming days are gona but dying in 2 secs isn't funny too.
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I think that the AI is now probably how it should always have been. Which means that casual non-combat pilots like me who have gained combat rank by default are now out of our depth. If a clear save would put me at a level where NPCs would be levelled with my rank and wouldn't outclass me so much then I might do it.
On the other hand NPC weapons do seem too powerful. In my unarmed trader I always submit-boost-jump but now I'm lucky to get away with that as NPCs shoot me in the backside and strip me down to a few percent in the seconds before I can jump. I have to get repairs immediately and there's no way I can survive two aggressive interdictions on the trot.
On the third hand I'm never going to get much better at combat because I use an Xbox controller which makes it impractical to fly FA-off, which I realise is essential for top combat. I'd like more axes on my controller so I could join in with the FA-off crowd but I want to slouch in front of my big TV with a controller in my hand. I don't want to sit up straight at a desk so I can use a HOTAS, and turning the living room into a cockpit isn't on. So I reckon that I've been relegated to a division of casual players who can only subsist by doing BB deliveries and fleeing from all NPCs.
On the other hand NPC weapons do seem too powerful. In my unarmed trader I always submit-boost-jump but now I'm lucky to get away with that as NPCs shoot me in the backside and strip me down to a few percent in the seconds before I can jump. I have to get repairs immediately and there's no way I can survive two aggressive interdictions on the trot.
On the third hand I'm never going to get much better at combat because I use an Xbox controller which makes it impractical to fly FA-off, which I realise is essential for top combat. I'd like more axes on my controller so I could join in with the FA-off crowd but I want to slouch in front of my big TV with a controller in my hand. I don't want to sit up straight at a desk so I can use a HOTAS, and turning the living room into a cockpit isn't on. So I reckon that I've been relegated to a division of casual players who can only subsist by doing BB deliveries and fleeing from all NPCs.
again you dont understand. how much fun is it to NEVER BE ABLE TO FIGHT? to go back to the casino, thats also a no win situation but why do people play it? because they have the illusion they can win big. part of that is self deception. but there are not all that many who win at casino games like the slots and roulette. the skill games are different. elite is no longer a skill game its pure throw the ball in and hope it lands on the slot that doesnt kill you. and when it does kill you then you lose credits and the ship. and it does it too often for you to use anything other than a pure combat ship or a starter sidewinder.
the money is ebbing away. there is no role in elite for commanders to be traders or miners or explorers (unless they stay out and only occasionally risk coming back to sell. and seeing as most have no armor and weapons one interdiction like i had and they are DEAD along with months of data lost. you seriously think they will keep playing if that happens over and over?). you are going to have a brief glorious time with ai npcs and very few commanders then the servers will be shut down or it will become subscription to keep them open. and this will be another almost good game that died because people wanted pew pew too much and didnt take into account other people enjoying the other ways of playing. now pew pew or die is the ONLY way.
I posted a video earlier today, me in a Corvette chasing Vipers and got told that was cheating and that I should use a smaller ship. Because apparently that was where the real broken AI was... What the hell, I can't win this goal moving Olympics!
[video=youtube;QwdWLhfsrks]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwdWLhfsrks[/video]
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I, for one, LOVE the new AI. Maneuverable ships should be leveraging their advantage to stay in the blind spot of larger ships that think they are combat ships (yes Python pilots, I'm referring to you).
The only downside IMO is it kinda neuters the Federal Corvette, which is a purpose-built combat vessel. I guess the 'vette would be good at taking on larger vessels, but it would need protection from smaller vessels. It just needs some larger ships to sink its teeth into.
The new AI makes playing in a wing a lot more rewarding. No more discocondas going AFK and farming bounties. It's a beautiful thing.
The only downside IMO is it kinda neuters the Federal Corvette, which is a purpose-built combat vessel. I guess the 'vette would be good at taking on larger vessels, but it would need protection from smaller vessels. It just needs some larger ships to sink its teeth into.
The new AI makes playing in a wing a lot more rewarding. No more discocondas going AFK and farming bounties. It's a beautiful thing.
TLDR
From reading this thread i can see ED's NPCs are like Marmite some like the new ones some dont. I havent played yet as my laptop that could run 2.0 fine crashes to desktop with 2.1.
The way i see it now is traders now will require wingmen as defence much like some NPCs do when they jump into nav points and they have wingmen.
Now Elite seems dangerous once again and we wont always win, im glad i got 2.2mil for rebuys
From reading this thread i can see ED's NPCs are like Marmite some like the new ones some dont. I havent played yet as my laptop that could run 2.0 fine crashes to desktop with 2.1.
The way i see it now is traders now will require wingmen as defence much like some NPCs do when they jump into nav points and they have wingmen.
Now Elite seems dangerous once again and we wont always win, im glad i got 2.2mil for rebuys
What did you expect. If you fail your way, that's because you're not playing their way. And if you're not playing their way, then you are not playing it properly. Git gud etc etc and all that crap.
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Goose4291
Banned
I don't think it's the AI that's the issue. It's the fact all the NPC's have access to and utilise all the engineer upgrades whilst we haven't at this stage due to (i) timescales or (ii) not owning copies of horizons. The only thing I can see that really needs to be done is scale back the number of upgrades they have, assuming the Dev's "AI doesn't cheat" statement re: ammo and heat damage is true.
Sounds Elite Dangerous then
Remember that you can evade interdiction with easy loop maneuver. If the npc won't let you go and stays on your tail jump to another system and come back. Better AI forces you to make choices. Either fly just straight and get interdicted. Or make some effort and not going straight from A to B.Javert
Volunteer Moderator
All,
Please avoid the personal attacks and comments. You are welcome to express your opinion about the new AI but attacking other users or replying with nonconstructive comments is not helpful and will not be likely to get anything changed.
If the personal attacks and comments on this thread continue, the thread will be closed for a cool-down period and further moderation actions may be taken.
Please avoid the personal attacks and comments. You are welcome to express your opinion about the new AI but attacking other users or replying with nonconstructive comments is not helpful and will not be likely to get anything changed.
If the personal attacks and comments on this thread continue, the thread will be closed for a cool-down period and further moderation actions may be taken.
That's it, keep it up. The "Git gud"s and insults only fan the flames. I personally have wrote a letter to Her Maj Queen Lizzy to have a word in Dave's ear (as their pals I heard), failing that, if she'd send Mr. Bond out to FDev HQ!
You guys get to keep the salt, we get the Bar-b-que!
Edit: A wee question then... To all you "claiming" everything is ok, what are you flying and how much cash as your character got? I think we'll find a nice pattern...
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Hey I can only give my own findings with respect to yours, I've not had a single NPC small face tank me regardless of rank since the patch yet they all seem to be doing it in your video, almost feel like i'm playing a different game
, maybe their dodging algorithms suffer when they have multiple ships targeting them? So far small vs small is a reasonable AI buff but still pretty easy if your competant, mediums are fine until you get to the python and small vs large in all the settings i've tried so far (PP NPC's, vs wings at HREZ etc) has involved perfect blind spot camping from the NPCs, even the low rank ones.
Certainly small ships for combat seems the easiest path to me at the moment, I don't kill the large ships as fast but you kill smalls about 500% faster if you were trying to use a large with gimbals/fixed.
Edit: I will go grab a bit of footage of what I mean i'm sure I can find another Imp courier to test on.
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It's the my way or the highway attitude most people have. A cooldown won't change anything. You'd be better off banning everyone.
That's it, keep it up. The "Git gud"s and insults only fan the flames. I personally have wrote a letter to Her Maj Queen Lizzy to have a word in Dave's ear (as their pals I heard), failing that, if she'd send Mr. Bond out to FDev HQ!
You guys get to keep the salt, we get the Bar-b-que!
Er, what?
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Hey I can only give my own findings with respect to yours, I've not had a single NPC small face tank me regardless of rank since the patch yet they all seem to be doing it in your video, almost feel like i'm playing a different game
So far small vs small is a reasonable AI buff but still pretty easy if your competant, mediums are fine until you get to the python and small vs large in all the settings i've tried so far (PP NPC's, vs wings at HREZ etc) has involved perfect blind spot camping from the NPCs, even the low rank ones.
Certainly small ships for combat seems the easiest path to me at the moment, I don't kill the large ships as fast but you kill smalls about 500% faster if you were trying to use a large with gimbals/fixed.
Edit: I will go grab a bit of footage of what I mean i'm sure I can find another Imp courier to test on.
It's certainly easier to chase small ships in a small ship. Logically it should be, but its far from impossible in a big ship. Turrets are actually useful now.
Just got in for 3 hours and had the best time ever!!
I was hunting USS's all night looking for the right parts for my upgrades...ran into everything from an elite eagle to wings of deadly and elite condas, asps, vipers, cobras.
Some times I stayed and fought...and other times I had to high wake out with barely any hull left.
This was absolutely the best gaming session ive had in elite so far....and made a few mil in bounties to boot.
Great job FD...very impressed with this update!
I was hunting USS's all night looking for the right parts for my upgrades...ran into everything from an elite eagle to wings of deadly and elite condas, asps, vipers, cobras.
Some times I stayed and fought...and other times I had to high wake out with barely any hull left.
This was absolutely the best gaming session ive had in elite so far....and made a few mil in bounties to boot.
Great job FD...very impressed with this update!
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