Discuss the AI here!

[Flippimonkey]

I haven't had a problem with AI. Nothing to tricky or out of the ordinary. If there are bugs I will keep an eye out, but I would assume with the new mods the npc's might be getting some funky combos that are "broken". Though I think it's weird these shut-in engineers seem to be just throwing their goods around all willy nilly.

Either that or the npc's are finally self aware and taking revenge on us.... I'm a mass murder if that is the case.

 

[Roybe]

please dont assume everyone will be happy to go dying multiple times mining just to get mats for another ship they need modded merely to survive. im not going to do mining because i cant afford the constant rebuys it will entail just for mats. and i have no space in any of my ships for an srv unless i make them even less likely to survive an interdiction. so no mats there either. i play in solo to avoid the idiot pkers and now i have npc griefers, so now i have the best of both worlds - but a marginally higher chance of surviving in solo now instead of much better chance to actually play and enjoy it. but zero chance in either now to get any mods. unless the mats miraculously appear in uss and no ships do while im trying to collect them.

There's always reaching out and helping each other in open or private group, right? Solo players always knew they were going to have a tough row to hoe...

..and you lose forum opinion points for declaring NPC's griefers...

 

[Ximrats]

stop using it as an insult you mean i expect.

Both, actually. It's not an excuse and it's not an insult. Move on.

 

[kushan]

my point is i apologise. i have seen too much of these posts from snobby elitist git gudders and it annoys me. they have billions and rebuys to them are nothing so the ships are practically throwaway if they lose so they dont mind. the rest of us arent rich. im slowly making money and i have a half built FAS i spent 40 mil on and needs another 40 mil and probably will die with one npc due to the shields being useless so i may never finish the build now. im just sick of the few saying its all ok and everyone will adapt after a few losses and getting stuck in a sidewinder when they will never have to experience that. and they stick their heads in the sand and assume FD will do nothing if they scream louder than others do and somehow the game will survive when only they are left. thats the tone they seem to have. they want space invaders 3d. on acid. yet they none of them want to play CQC arena. i was having fun with the game and now its less fun if i have to run and never get to fight ever. and occasionally die with nothing i can do making a difference then the insult of rebuy after that. if they make unwinnable unescapable fights they need to rethink rebuy.

nothing you could teach would have helped with the master viper i faced. im not exactly useless in my asp, but what can you do with shields gone and massive damage to hull and powerplant in under 30 seconds, and an FSD drive that flips on and off when you are hit, and when he keeps up when you are boosting to try get out of range - or keeps hitting you at long range or both as i suspect now. if the cops hadnt jumped in at 30 seconds that ship was gone and with it 25% of my funds. and i couldnt fight back i realised that as soon as he fired and i returned and saw how much damage to my shield vs damge i did to his. i was fleeing with boost and pips to eng and rest to sys after 3 or 4 seconds. maybe less. and evasion didnt seem to help. boosting didnt. i just dont see what else. there were no missiles launched. just what weapons he had firing. one encounter like that in a game is enough.

I agree - the usual elitist snobs cries of "git gud" is all well and good when you already have so much money that you can fly in whatever you want with whatever equipment you want. But screw the little people, right?

My problem is with the AI ships speed and maneuverability. I should not be being outturned by a cobra in my FDL with A class thrusters - and nope, I'm not turning FA off, makes me feel sick as a dog within a few minutes.

 

[SystematicChaos]

The AI needed an upgrade, no doubt about that, but it was too much, especially when giving them superweapons on top of it.

This is what breaks it completely for me. These supposedly secretive modders are pushing stuff out on an industrial scale.

 

[Duedy]

I have played about 10 hrs of 2.1 so far. I have an expert ranking in combat, I have been interdicted about 20 times all elite, submit and run every time, with a few of the faster NPCs taking a bit of my hull before I could jump out.

It is obviously set too high I shouldn't be seeing any elite ships, also had a clean pirate scanned me and demanded my cargo. I ended up with the bounty on my head for being shot at first. Looks like FDev have fixed some things and added some new things in, so still broken.

 

[pippo]

This is what breaks it completely for me. These supposedly secretive modders are pushing stuff out on an industrial scale.

Although I'm with the 'keep the AI as it is' crowd (yet I voted "too hard" / voted too quick)
The roleplayer in me tends to agree with you.

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

There are always people who take what they lose very serious even tough theres no reason to. Souls come and go, credits come and go, it isn't a big deal in the End (as long as you always fly with insurance)

yes and what when your credits runs out because you keep dying before you can make the rebuy back because some npc with op weapons keeps targetting you? even billions will run out eventually. but the problem is the billionaires have ships they can get away with making one run they can recoup 3 or 4 rebuys. try that in an asp when you dont have billions to buy a massive cargo capacity ship.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

I have played about 10 hrs of 2.1 so far. I have an expert ranking in combat, I have been interdicted about 20 times all elite, submit and run every time, with a few of the faster NPCs taking a bit of my hull before I could jump out.

It is obviously set too high I shouldn't be seeing any elite ships, also had a clean pirate scanned me and demanded my cargo. I ended up with the bounty on my head for being shot at first. Looks like FDev have fixed some things and added some new things in, so still broken.

Having clean ship threatening you isn't a bug. When in future we will have declaration of piracy then we will be able to shoot first, because that will be actual crime.

 

[Cybermykl]

I second that motion. Why do we have an AI presence in an online PVP game in the first place? There would be no need for Solo vs. Open.

 

[Varrag]

That'll only last until the game gets bad press for pushing too many players out.

I would assume that FDEV is closely watching the live stats in game. If they see that too many ships have been lost to NPCs, they will probably tone down something - preferably the NPC ship weapons, not the AI which screamed for major improvement.

It would be very unfortunate if the bad press hits them again. They can't afford that really.

 

[Bomba Luigi]

yes and what when your credits runs out because you keep dying before you can make the rebuy back because some npc with op weapons keeps targetting you? even billions will run out eventually. but the problem is the billionaires have ships they can get away with making one run they can recoup 3 or 4 rebuys. try that in an asp when you dont have billions to buy a massive cargo capacity ship.

Well if you keep on dying all the time then it probably becomes and issue, alltough I see no reason why you should keep on dying all the time. Its not about getting good or whatnot, you don't need to be good in combat to survive being attacked. Add some more defense or speed, try new escape tactics if the current ones don't work and you will sort it out.

 

[Luniticisi]

I have to say that the AI is now challenging and this alone has made the game better for me, I was playing on and off each session being no longer than 30 - 40 .. If I wanted to bounty hunt at a RES I would just head on in to one and shoot ships without even having to look at who or what I was attacking .. shields never dropping..

Now I have to pick my fights, know when to run (Always having a destination set for high waking) and now I can't wait to load up the game and when I do I can't get off it (although I have to take breaks as my computer runs a tad too hot while playing ED)

if there isn't a challenge in a game, I don't see the point in playing.

 

[Roybe]

yes and what when your credits runs out because you keep dying before you can make the rebuy back because some npc with op weapons keeps targetting you? even billions will run out eventually. but the problem is the billionaires have ships they can get away with making one run they can recoup 3 or 4 rebuys. try that in an asp when you dont have billions to buy a massive cargo capacity ship.

This will only occur if one of two things are true:

1. The player does not adapt to the game...and stubbornly keeps playing against the changes (insanity-doing the same thing, for the same reasons, and expecting a different outcome)

2. The player is incapable of playing the game with the new changes...and fails constantly because of it.

To avoid the problem #1 above, go back to basics before the player gets into that trouble to start with. Sell the larger ships, get a smaller ship, learn to assess threats in that, lose it a few times...and begin to grow into the larger ships previously owned.

The only way to avoid 2 is to leave the game.

 

[Lemonhoko]

yes and what when your credits runs out because you keep dying before you can make the rebuy back because some npc with op weapons keeps targetting you? even billions will run out eventually. but the problem is the billionaires have ships they can get away with making one run they can recoup 3 or 4 rebuys. try that in an asp when you dont have billions to buy a massive cargo capacity ship.

Turn on report crimes...go to a high sec system, by the nav beacon, scan and watch the wanted...if they are high in rank, wait for the cops to scan and fire on them...and when you think you can jump in without taking too much damage before they expire, you can make over a mil an hour doing this.
I did.

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

When NPCs scan you, they should take into account the value of your cargo. Surely a normal higher level commander with multiple millions in the bank wouldn't kill an NPC that wasn't wanted and only had a couple of thousand Cr worth of cargo? So why would an NPC. A low ranked NPC might, and that would be fine. Either could interdict, but on scanning they would decide if you were worth the bother.

It seems weird that a dangerous NPC would kill you just get get hold of that precious couple of tons of coffee, not unless he desperately needed his fix of caffeine!

lol the master was after the 3 tons of relics i was carrying (i think. i may have bought them later not sure now) i needed them for an engineer. i went off to buy meta alloys while i could since theres no way i can switch something for an srv to get them when barnacles are fixed. but the expert viper later had much tougher hull than before yet he didnt want anything. just interdict and hahahahaha weapons on me. didnt demand cargo at all but at least wasnt fitted with overpowered weapons and thrusters. so they did implement the killer for the lulz npcs in solo for us. i guess because we dont get the wonderful experience of wings of players doing it over and over when we dont play open.

 

[aramil]

There is obviously a bug with the loadout/power of/ammo/damage done, with some of the AI NPC's, we can all see it in some of those videos. Even us verts who have played since Beta can see it. but if we where a newer player engaged by our bugged insta kill friends, you would blame the new AI, because there is a massive blame the AI thread........

We could be helping FD with this bug (yeah i know, some joined up thinking)

• why do some people always seem to meet them while others do not? Is it localized to the player? Is it an instancing issue?
• What weopons are actually effected if not all?
• does it look like , no cool down, unlimited ammo, massive boost in damage or just an "in win button"?
• Maybe it an over-effective engineer effect that is somehow bugged for certain NPC comblinations (craft/class/weopons...)?
• etc

But no, it's obvisouly more fun to drive a wedge right down the middle of the E community and risk it turning toxic, than to work the problem.

You never know, If we can help solve these issues, (or at least help FD find the underlying problem/point in the right direction), then everyone may find that the AI is not the issue and " Mr instakill" was.......

Do I feel the AI is harder than before: YES
Is it to hard : NO, still WIP, (but it's hard to tell when "Mr Instakill" can show up and ruin your day)
Is it to hard when "Mr Instakill" is around : YES

So what do you guys & dolls want to do? stay here, continue to beat chests, and not help FD and our gaming experience and the community, or, be a FD team player and at least try to see if there are any answers to the points above? Around a thousand people have voted in this poll, just imagie if a thousand people where working on actually trying to narrow down what the issue really is (instead of trying to tear chunks out of each other) and when FD came back after their bank holiday the community went " we found this bug, it looks like this and it happens when x y & z occur"

It gives us the players the best chance of having a good AI thats is not nerfed back to "Mr Idiot" while addressing the concerns of those players who seem to be hounded by what happens in those videos.

 

[Robert Maynard]

I would assume that FDEV is closely watching the live stats in game. If they see that too many ships have been lost to NPCs, they will probably tone down something - preferably the NPC ship weapons, not the AI which screamed for major improvement.

.... or possibly leave the AI exactly as they are - but change the likelihood of meeting the higher ranks - if Frontier decide that anything requires to be changed. that is....

They will, of course, be looking at the stats with respect to the kill-count of MoM™'s minions - and comparing it to previously collated stats to assess the magnitude of the change.

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

Turn on report crimes...go to a high sec system, by the nav beacon, scan and watch the wanted...if they are high in rank, wait for the cops to scan and fire on them...and when you think you can jump in without taking too much damage before they expire, you can make over a mil an hour doing this.
I did.

so basically dont play trader or explorer or miner play combat only now?

 

[Para Handy]

Not my video, but I don't think it's been posted in this thread yet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZN_yZ07-18

How do you justify this?

Now that's what I'm talking about - hits from Dangerous Vulture (two effect weapons?), shields drop, ship blows up - not at all a decent situation from ANY NPC AI

Have a look 0:47 hull 100% shields nearly full - 0:47 shields gone hull dropping below 50% - 0:48 boom

Yeah of course the AI is just fine, well done SJA ---- [rolleyes]


roll on 2.1.1 (Can't come soon enough)