Discuss the AI here!

What do you think of the new AI?

  • Too hard

    Votes: 954 46.7%
  • Just right

    Votes: 838 41.0%
  • Too easy

    Votes: 117 5.7%
  • Other (give reason)

    Votes: 134 6.6%

  • Total voters
    2,043
  • Poll closed .
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https://youtu.be/oZN_yZ07-18

To all the combat jocks saying "git gid", please tell us how this is supposed to be how the game works

I think this is what a lot of the problem is. Not the AI, just we are all meeting alot of super enhanced NPC where skill has no factor. They need to tone down the special weapons and make the NPC's using them very rare.

Keep the AI, I love the challenge, but make it a fair fight please.

I don't want to have to do the whole engineer grind just to survive in this beautiful game.
 
So in other words, to stay on par we will have to use the engineered modifications, just to survive. With all the current nonsense (my opinion) mechanic to get them. Thanks, but no thanks.


If they made the grind for mods a bit less grindier...I think we would have less complaints about the AI being OP.
As it sits now, lots of people are feeling stuck behind a grind for mods that could make their game play way better.
I hope FD does look at this situation and adjuszt the "grind" and not the AI.
 
Thoughts and Suggestions regarding AI

So much has been written on this topic, I just have not been able to keep up with it all - so my apologies beforehand; I'm sure these suggestions have probably already been made, in various forms. However, just in case there is something new to offer, I had these thoughts:

  1. The problem is not the quality of the AI - we want good clever, capable AI that can offer a challenge to even the most skilled player.
  2. The problem seem to be more one of matching players to AI of an appropriate threat level for them.
  3. You still want variety in the threats a player meets; sometimes weaker, sometimes stronger, but mostly at a level that puts up a challenging fight.
  4. If faced with an overwhelming opponent, it would be good to have the option of some form of surrender - maybe even offering them credits if you have no cargo to give. This should be possible even if combat has started!
  5. AI should act like "well mannered" players - right now they sound like they too often emulate griefers. A good step toward this is the newly-added behavior where at least some pirates will accept a cargo offering as a pay-off. In the same vein, if players have no cargo to offer, and don't fight back, the AI should maybe just give them a thrashing and leave them to limp home, rather than destroying them. (Indeed, this is a line of research worth testing - do we know the full range of AI responses to different player behaviors?)

It struck me that if Elite is using the players combat rank to determine the level of threat they should meet, that is a problem - indeed, a design flaw. Maybe it doesn't do this, but if it does, this could be a problem.

The reason is this that combat rank always increases over time - even if your personal skill level does not! I consider myself a good example. Having played since the original beta, my combat ranking is still only "Expert" - so you can see I am not much into combat, and I personally would not consider myself even "expert" skill. However, over time my rank will only ever increase.

What is needed is a hidden "combat rating" statistic for each player, used to decide what sort of range of opponent to face them with, and possibly what behavior options are open to them from particular threat-levels of opponents. For example, if the RNG rolls up a threat that would likely overwhelm the player, it might also activate a greater likelihood of that threat demanding and accept some form of surrender.

The "combat rating" of a player would be adjusted up and down based on the outcome of each combat the player engages in. It would look at factors such as:

  • The duration of the combat. The longer it lasts, the more closely matched we can assume the player and AI are, so the outcome would have a diminishing affect on the player's combat rank regardless of the outcome.
  • The amount of internal damage given and received. If a player destroys or drives off an AI without taking any damage, their combat rating would increase more than if they get away with nearly as much damage received as inflicted. Likewise, if a p-layer is destroyed without putting a scratch on their AI opponent, their combat rating would decrease.

Combat rating would only be affected by player vs AI combat. PVP would not change your combat rating.
Not sure yet how mixed PvP & PvE combat and how multi-ship combat would be fitted in to this, but I'm sure it could be done.

Players could still "sandbag" their rating if they really want to, but it would take time and effort, and really who cares if they do - the aim is to ensure the majority of players are offered threats that give them a challenge. The exact level of risk-of-death that constitutes "challenge" is something the developers would have to decide and maybe adjust over time.

So, bottom line:
  • Keep the skilled AI, and continue to make it better and harder. but...
  • Implement a mechanism for measuring a players combat skill based on their historical success/failure in combat, which then drives the level of threats presented to them.
  • Add some alternatives for people who are not skilled combatants, so that being destroyed is not always the only way to lose a combat.

Of course, maybe these mechanisms are already implemented. Maybe we already have a hidden combat-skill statistic, but the previous reign of easy-kill AI has skewed some people's rankings? If so Frontier really just need to make us aware of them; there are some things it is probably not best to just leave us to discover on our own!
 
What I don't understand is why FD felt the need to change the difficulty of AI in the rez sites. They have continually over the life of this game been responding to some of the player base complaints of the game being too easy. They added hard signal sources, harder AI, wings of ships, harder rez sites. They added cqc, combat zones, etc. The more the hardcore gamers play, the easier the game will get, and then they will ask for the "goal posts" to be moved again! The whole purpose of the " resource sites " is to have a place to make credits to finance playing the game the way you wish, whether that be mining, or pirating, or bounty hunting. Harder AI should have been increased in the main combat areas of the game ( combat zones, SSS's, etc. ). Rez sites should have been left alone so people can continue with their business of moving forward in the game at the pace they set. And for those who want harder combat, you already had options for tougher combat. How much more did you need?
 
Hopefully, this is something they will rethink for the future: beta builds should be freely accessible to everyone who purchased the game. They can get much better feedback when more players are involved. Size of the current beta test playerbase is relatively small, and those people are most likely above the average player regarding their skills; which might lead to somewhat warped picture during the beta testing.

I disagree.
 
A question: when mining in the usual "Not at the Res area" are you now annoyed by pirates? I really like mining and without hindrance Its ED:Dayspa. Reason I asked was I was in my SRV and when returning to my ship and taking off I was attacked by a DBS while still planet side. I SC out and they didn't follow, but would really ruin mining for me if its turned the whole ring into 1 giant Res site.
 
I watched the video, and there are several things people are misunderstanding.
1. It wasn't the Vulture that killed him.
2. He had 1 pip in his shield.
3. By the amount of things hitting his shield he was attacked by 2-3 enemies at once.
4. He probably was running light weight paper armor.
Now should you die that fast, probably not, but there is a bunch of stuff going on off screen we can't see.

1. Only the vulture was shooting him as shown by radar
2. yes indeed, poor combat choice
3. strange they were not showing in radar,
4. this one is correct

5. maybe he hit an asteroid ? Vulture doesn't shoot that fast,maybe he hit an asteroid and took damage fast cause he kept turning against it, however not shown on radar

It's either a bug or now weapons go through shields faster if you don't keep 4 pips on sys
 
I voted other. I wouldn't say there too hard or too easy or just right. If anything they seem more stupid then before. They are more harder, yes, but not in an intelligent way. Not really impressed, I would not call them intelligent AI from what I have seen so far.

To be honest I really don't care for combat. It just doesn't work when it comes to AI. Not to mention the credit rewards are still pretty lame compared to the risk of dying. All I got was 90,000c for taking down an anaconda! I am not sure if that is different in other systems, have not tried in other systems. It's also instant wanted if you so much as tickle another ship, and be warned, I just found out you can't pay off bounties at stations any more, once your wanted, your wanted. Now combat really is not worth the trouble now.
 
your OP npc is out there. biding his time. waiting. you just havent met it yet.

You mean the ones I've been killing in a nav beacon earlier today? ;)
The security forces are really handy I f you get into a spot of trouble, then again I'm only expert combat rank so going after the big fish in 2.1 right now is suicide.
I'll need to get a bit more practice in. :D
 
Only players who had access to Beta had the opportunity to play against the various Beta iterations of AI. Beta 6 didn't last very long. Now Frontier have unleashed MoM™'s modified minions onto the whole player-base - players who may have no access to Engineers (XB1 at the moment, Mac, PC who have not bought Horizons) and even for those who have bought Horizons, no access to "modifications for fish" acceleration to the higher levels of modifications.

To fully assess the impact of the New AI (with Engineered modifications) on the player-base, it had to be implemented in the live game. I don't see how it could be tested any other way....


I never had the beta, and I'm loving the new AI. When I hear people complain about the new AI, it comes up with a range of excuses in the form of complaints, the only one I will accept is the critique towards rewards and the amount of modifications on the AI. However its not the end of the world because we have not been exposed to this AI long enough for everyone to really adapt. This takes the old AI that we're used to farming and turns it into actual combat, which is how it very much should be.

I really wish people would stop being such doom and gloomers and just let Fdev work, I'm sure their intentions were pure at heart despite all of you're greediness towards that narrow vision of " I NEEDZ THE CREDITS" rather than actually enjoying the complexity of an actual dog fight.
 
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