Shot dead for a 400 credit bounty?

[excalibus]

I make motorsport simulators for a living. I have been in, through and beyond the games industry in the past 20 years...I even put BAFTA on my CV because of it............I wouldn't want the pay cut going back in to the games industry....it is hard hard work.....at crunch time you can end up sleeping on the floor, dreaming when you blink and surviving on pizza and curry delivered to the office......the art/sound team have done an outstanding job on Elite D.....I wish they had a bigger budget and more staff.......but the game "Design"......jeeze.......where is it? could I do better?......well I dunno, I would certainly plan something that is "logical" to the human condition............the thought has occurred to use Unity or other to produce a title.....but, I don't need the money and it is all consuming work....and I love my current job......maybe for fun when I retire......
.
I will come on here and have a moan about a game I was looking forward to playing though, just like everyone else...... Though, when I speak about game development, I can speak from experience..(I'm an art director now).....I bet you have played on quite a few games I worked on..... Maybe even the one that has BAFTA next to its name

indeed it is all consuming and it is obvious that a lot of blood, sweat, and tears have gone into ED in its current iteration... But to bash the game for it's mechanics and the way it presents a futuristic societies rules and interactions when those rules and interactions already have a historic presence for us players through the earlier titles in the franchise is completely wrong in my eyes... If I went to play ED after coming from the earlier titles and was to find that suddenly that in the elite universe authority ships will not try to kill me for the smallest misdimeanour, that pirates / bounty hunters where not trying to intercept me a lot especially in the more dangerous places or when I have been naughty myself etc then I would be having to ask the question of     happened to the universe...

Yes we all know that when compared to 'real life' and 'human conditioning' there are some 'discrepancies' between what is in our universe and the universe as portrayed in elite, but that is the way it always has been and for the sake of cognition the game needs to maintain that universe IMHO...

I am glad you make motorsport sims, good for you, and it is always nice to have a job you enjoy because it does not feel like hard work as much and fun to go to work As for your CV and credentials, umm so what?! I mean what has that to do with the fact that the elite universe has always been a harsh and very unforgiving environment in some aspects? Do you simply impart that information to us to give credence to your point of view? If that is the case, it doesn't IMHO...

I like a large variety of games and it is entirely possible I have played BAFTA awarded games indeed but what has that to do with the discussion at hand?

Yes we all are entitled to a moan and so forth, and that is your right to do so, just as it is my right to disagree with what you are moaning about / commenting on if I feel it is appropriate to do so...

Hmmm I am but a 'lowly' construction worker with hobby interests in C++ programming, 3D modelling and animation, electronics, and mechanical engineering (design and construction of 'things', and I am thoroughly enjoying ED...

I went into this for the long haul view, seeing it has a 10 year dev plan means I did not expect everything to be 'complete' until after that time...

 

[CMDR_Havok]

So i'm just wondering if this is a legit game mechanic or not? because, if it is, it's kinda .
Somehow i had gotten a small 400 credit bounty, must of accidentally shot a friendly or something.

Heading back to the space station, get scanned, docking privileges revoked then i just get gang stomped by the system police.
All over a 400 credit bounty?

There are two things wrong with this post, First Elite is primarily a roleplay game and as such when you claim that you may have 'accidentally shot a friendly' well IMO you should take shooting a friendly (accidentally or otherwise) far more seriously than you seem to do.

Second a measly 400 fine, for shooting another ship, SERIOUSLY... It should be 400k, and a wanted status posted at every starport for 100ly

OTOH if your crime was really a speeding offence or something more befitting a 400Cr fine, then the police should not initiate a capital punishment for it....

But as you don't even know whether you shot someone or not then I suggest that you get a bit less trigger happy.... Especially in civilised space.

 

[CMDR_Havok]

Few days ago I got trigger happy late at night - drink might have been taken - and murdered an innocent NPC...got 4600 cr bounty on me, no problem, but this bounty being active for FOUR DAYS in the system I call home was unacceptable.

Are you for real...?

A murder (NPC or Otherwise) should be more or less permmanently on your record, the game REALLY badly needs this to happen for various roleplay and anti-griefing reasons.

IMO the Bounty should last at least until you suffer a ship destruction in the ship in which the crime was committed. But the offence itself should remain on your record PERMANENTLY and have a lasting effect, like for example being refused certain permits, or refused missions for certain factions etc...

 

[Iskariot]

Are you for real...?

A murder (NPC or Otherwise) should be more or less permmanently on your record, the game REALLY badly needs this to happen for various roleplay and anti-griefing reasons.

IMO the Bounty should last at least until you suffer a ship destruction in the ship in which the crime was committed. But the offence itself should remain on your record PERMANENTLY and have a lasting effect, like for example being refused certain permits, or refused missions for certain factions etc...

I agree with most of what you said.
Killing an innocent should be a big deal and having a bounty on you for a week is not at all excessive. I think a month would be ok.
And the killing should become part of a CMDRs permanent criminal record.
It would be great if all players would have the option to view this criminal record of other CMDRs on the fly.
It should at least list the following:
- Innocent NPC kills
- Innocent CMDr kills
- Criminal NPC kills
- Criminal CMDR kills

This would enable us to a certain extent to judge the CMDRs we meet in the game.

I also would like the bounties for murder to be at least double of what they are currently, but tripled or quadrupled bounties would be even better.

But the offence itself should remain on your record PERMANENTLY and have a lasting effect, like for example being refused certain permits, or refused missions for certain factions etc...

I would like a more dynamic mechanism. Killing an innocent in a frantic battle is an accident that can happen before you know it.
FD should be very careful to block things off permanently because of such a thing.
Perhaps if the player shows a real, undeniable tendency to kill innocent npc/cmdrs your idea would be cool. For example if he kills 10 innocents in one month.
Otherwise I would like it if certain factions paid you less for doing certain missions, because of your murderous track record and they should be vocal about that to.
And perhaps there could also be a bribing mechanism so the player can bribe an official to look the other way, but the bribe might go wrong and you could lose the contract completely and also lose more rep.

To balance things... for certain factions the killing of innocents would have to be a recommendation of course .

 

[kofeyh]

Remember when people asked for stronger punishment for crime?

Well, you can't ask for that and then special dispensation because you happen to decide it's annoying once you are caught.

If you ping a ship. Leave the system. Go run errands, hand in any spare vouchers in another system or just shoot to a nearby system and chillax on the surface for a bit collecting materials or something. Return (once bounty states "on H-jump"). Pay your fine. Move on.

 

[Whitmann]

Are you for real...?

A murder (NPC or Otherwise) should be more or less permmanently on your record, the game REALLY badly needs this to happen for various roleplay and anti-griefing reasons.

IMO the Bounty should last at least until you suffer a ship destruction in the ship in which the crime was committed. But the offence itself should remain on your record PERMANENTLY and have a lasting effect, like for example being refused certain permits, or refused missions for certain factions etc...

Lol, seriously? Permanent sanction for a single, simple mistake? On an NPC whose feelings I'm guessing were not terribly hurt by the incident?
Jeez, I dislike the idea of people hanging out at 3447 or wherever specifically to whack-a-noob but taking out the wrong (NPC) ship in the middle of a multi-ship fight is vastly different.

 

[CMDR_Havok]

I agree with most of what you said.
Killing an innocent should be a big deal and having a bounty on you for a week is not at all excessive. I think a month would be ok.
And the killing should become part of a CMDRs permanent criminal record.
It would be great if all players would have the option to view this criminal record of other CMDRs on the fly.
It should at least list the following:
- Innocent NPC kills
- Innocent CMDr kills
- Criminal NPC kills
- Criminal CMDR kills

This would enable us to a certain extent to judge the CMDRs we meet in the game.

I also would like the bounties for murder to be at least double of what they are currently, but tripled or quadrupled bounties would be even better.



I would like a more dynamic mechanism. Killing an innocent in a frantic battle is an accident that can happen before you know it.
FD should be very careful to block things off permanently because of such a thing.
Perhaps if the player shows a real, undeniable tendency to kill innocent npc/cmdrs your idea would be cool. For example if he kills 10 innocents in one month.
Otherwise I would like it if certain factions paid you less for doing certain missions, because of your murderous track record and they should be vocal about that to.
And perhaps there could also be a bribing mechanism so the player can bribe an official to look the other way, but the bribe might go wrong and you could lose the contract completely and also lose more rep.

To balance things... for certain factions the killing of innocents would have to be a recommendation of course .

I think this may have been discussed before, but perhaps there should be some kind of outlaw ranking, the more you rob, and murder the more notorious you become... It seems a bit obvious when you think about it.

 

[thorn-]

The 400 Bounty doesn't know why you did what you did, just that you assaulted someone. Obviously some assaults are more damaging than others.

I attacked a CMDR in a Python last night near a RES. He wasn't wanted; I was just hoping for an engaging fight. He gave a valiant effort to flight back for a few passes, but then decided to run. Unfortunately, his shields were gone and I was able to destroy his engines to 0% and take his hull to 1%.

Then I jumped out. I don't know if he was able to reboot/repair, or if he self-destructed, or if he's still sitting there wondering what to do next.

My fine for this round of combat was 400 CR - the same as accidentally popping an NPC at a Nav. It expired about 8 minutes later.

I do think it's a bit of a lenient penalty for me, given the amount of actual damage I did to the Python (leaving them 1% hull isn't murder, but it certainly was more than grazing his shields.)

 

[CMDR_Havok]

The 400 Bounty doesn't know why you did what you did, just that you assaulted someone. Obviously some assaults are more damaging than others.

I attacked a CMDR in a Python last night near a RES. He wasn't wanted; I was just hoping for an engaging fight. He gave a valiant effort to flight back for a few passes, but then decided to run. Unfortunately, his shields were gone and I was able to destroy his engines to 0% and take his hull to 1%.

Then I jumped out. I don't know if he was able to reboot/repair, or if he self-destructed, or if he's still sitting there wondering what to do next.

My fine for this round of combat was 400 CR - the same as accidentally popping an NPC at a Nav. It expired about 8 minutes later.

I do think it's a bit of a lenient penalty for me, given the amount of actual damage I did to the Python (leaving them 1% hull isn't murder, but it certainly was more than grazing his shields.)

I'd actually like to hear from some pirate players on this subject, I'd like know how have the more notorious ones managed to build up their notoriety and bounty ?

 

[GunnerBill]

Remember when people asked for stronger punishment for crime?

Well, you can't ask for that and then special dispensation because you happen to decide it's annoying once you are caught.

If you ping a ship. Leave the system. Go run errands, hand in any spare vouchers in another system or just shoot to a nearby system and chillax on the surface for a bit collecting materials or something. Return (once bounty states "on H-jump"). Pay your fine. Move on.

I think what people wanted was a crime and punishment system that made sense.

 

[thorn-]

I'd actually like to hear from some pirate players on this subject, I'd like know how have the more notorious ones managed to build up their notoriety and bounty ?

They take the kill shot.

 

[LOTGS]

The newly more difficult combat conditions can make this issue devastating. Last night I was doing a trade run when I noticed a wanted ship leaving the station I was arriving at, so opened fire for the bounty. Apparently I hit something I shouldn't have (don't think it could've been the station because I was approx. 4km away to keep out the no fire zone) and got a 400cr bounty declared on me. I didn't even have time to run- the station defences shredded me within five seconds. And the big kicker? I was flying a Cutter with over 500 tonnes of Imperial Slaves in the hold. Over 15m credits gone faster than I could ever imagine...

 

[excalibus]

The newly more difficult combat conditions can make this issue devastating. Last night I was doing a trade run when I noticed a wanted ship leaving the station I was arriving at, so opened fire for the bounty. Apparently I hit something I shouldn't have (don't think it could've been the station because I was approx. 4km away to keep out the no fire zone) and got a 400cr bounty declared on me. I didn't even have time to run- the station defences shredded me within five seconds. And the big kicker? I was flying a Cutter with over 500 tonnes of Imperial Slaves in the hold. Over 15m credits gone faster than I could ever imagine...

then perhaps the problem was with the captains chair?

 

[Ian Skippy]

So i'm just wondering if this is a legit game mechanic or not? because, if it is, it's kinda .
Somehow i had gotten a small 400 credit bounty, must of accidentally shot a friendly or something.

Heading back to the space station, get scanned, docking privileges revoked then i just get gang stomped by the system police.
All over a 400 credit bounty?

Fine=small crime
Bounty=big crime

Dont matter the value, if its a bounty they'll try and kill you. I'll try to kill you, too.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

The newly more difficult combat conditions can make this issue devastating. Last night I was doing a trade run when I noticed a wanted ship leaving the station I was arriving at, so opened fire for the bounty. Apparently I hit something I shouldn't have (don't think it could've been the station because I was approx. 4km away to keep out the no fire zone) and got a 400cr bounty declared on me. I didn't even have time to run- the station defences shredded me within five seconds. And the big kicker? I was flying a Cutter with over 500 tonnes of Imperial Slaves in the hold. Over 15m credits gone faster than I could ever imagine...

So you're in a Cutter filled with slaves, and you think its a good idea to go after some puny bounty near station defences? Sounds like a recipe for disaster...

 

[Cosmos]

I think its great we have a zero tolerance against crime. Makes the galaxy a much safer place

 

[Privata]

Yeah they will kill you for less... like for loitering
Life has no value in the elite universe

 

[Seonid]

Life has no value in the elite universe

By the unit it does.

 

[LOTGS]

then perhaps the problem was with the captains chair?

Nah, Gutamaya chairs are a master class in engineering.

So you're in a Cutter filled with slaves, and you think its a good idea to go after some puny bounty near station defences? Sounds like a recipe for disaster...

Since the update, yes, clearly. I'd done the same thing countless times before that without incident. By the way I generally prefer the increased AI difficulty, I'm just curious as to why pirates being dealt with by station defences (and I've been followed to stations by a few already) seem to last a good minute or more in their fight, but I lasted no more than five seconds. I also wonder if the friendly fire mechanics have been unduly tightened. Combining these changes with the 400cr bounty thing, that's a recipe for disaster. But I guess it's a lesson you only need once in order to learn- don't join local defence forces in dishing out justice in the vicinity of a station. Which is kind of a shame because that was always fun.

 

[insanephoton]

The 400 Bounty doesn't know why you did what you did, just that you assaulted someone. Obviously some assaults are more damaging than others.

I attacked a CMDR in a Python last night near a RES. He wasn't wanted; I was just hoping for an engaging fight. He gave a valiant effort to flight back for a few passes, but then decided to run. Unfortunately, his shields were gone and I was able to destroy his engines to 0% and take his hull to 1%.

Then I jumped out. I don't know if he was able to reboot/repair, or if he self-destructed, or if he's still sitting there wondering what to do next.

My fine for this round of combat was 400 CR - the same as accidentally popping an NPC at a Nav. It expired about 8 minutes later.

I do think it's a bit of a lenient penalty for me, given the amount of actual damage I did to the Python (leaving them 1% hull isn't murder, but it certainly was more than grazing his shields.)

The incident you describe clearly suggests that there should be some sort of graduated approach to crime and punishment. It seems ludicrous that the punishment for dinging someone's shields is identical to taking them within a whisker of the rebuy screen.

In English law you have three degrees of assault. Common assault could be as little as pushing or slapping someone. That's equivalent in game to dinging a ship's shields so 400 cr fine seems about right.

The next level is Actual Bodily Harm, this involves causing some minor injury like a black eye. I would suggest that the in game equivalent would be perhaps reducing someone's hull by 5-10% or causing significant damage to a module. I think a fair fine would be around 5000 cr but of course we would have to significantly increase the fine for murder.

After that we have Grievous Bodily Harm in which a more serious injury has occurred such as broken bones. I would suggest that the equivalent in game might be reducing someone's hull by more than 25% or completely destroying a module. Perhaps a fine of 50000 cr would be the right level. And maybe the fine for murder should be 500000 cr

 

[DTWD]

The incident you describe clearly suggests that there should be some sort of graduated approach to crime and punishment. It seems ludicrous that the punishment for dinging someone's shields is identical to taking them within a whisker of the rebuy screen.

In English law you have three degrees of assault. Common assault could be as little as pushing or slapping someone. That's equivalent in game to dinging a ship's shields so 400 cr fine seems about right.

The next level is Actual Bodily Harm, this involves causing some minor injury like a black eye. I would suggest that the in game equivalent would be perhaps reducing someone's hull by 5-10% or causing significant damage to a module. I think a fair fine would be around 5000 cr but of course we would have to significantly increase the fine for murder.

After that we have Grievous Bodily Harm in which a more serious injury has occurred such as broken bones. I would suggest that the equivalent in game might be reducing someone's hull by more than 25% or completely destroying a module. Perhaps a fine of 50000 cr would be the right level. And maybe the fine for murder should be 500000 cr

You would certainly check your fire with those kind of costs...i like it :-D

Although, what about mitigating circumstances? For instance 'my turrets did it officer'.

The game somehow already does something with this, with gimbled or turreted weapons if a non-com gets between you and a wanted target a ping on their shields doesn't seem to count. I have always backed off before actual damage has occurred though so I don't know what happens if you keep firing. For the record, this was with energy weapons.