The Star Citizen Thread v 4

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Electrofreak

E
dsmart said:
Thing is, by making me the bogeyman, they have a common enemy - with a face, and a reputation attached. Which is precisely why stuff like this gets written.

The end result is that "croberts being wrong" is a lot better to them than "dsmart was right". And so it goes. Thing is, all the signs that this project is are there. In fact, in our entire history (and I've been around for almost 3 decades) of gaming, other spectacular failures didn't have as many warning signs.
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No Derek, most of us know the game is behind schedule, that there are problems and legitimate concerns.

But we can't have a meaningful discussion about it because <don't post insults> Learn how to have an objective conversation and you might actually find people willing to listen.
 
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Asp Explorer

Asp Explorer
But what makes a "fan"?

I like Elite - I put quite a chunk of money in - I enjoyed the Alpha - I am enjoying what they delivered at release, and will continue to deliver throughout the development process.

I like Star Citizen - I put quite a chunk of money in - I am still waiting for them to deliver the Alpha.
 

dsmart

Banned
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Electrofreak said:
Really, you're just trying to generate drama. God, it's like a bunch of girls in high school in here.

You walk into a den of fans anywhere and start telling them they're all wrong, and what do you think is going to happen?

It's this dumb crap that's going to lock this thread.
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No. How about we read these instead?

we have been lied to

from BDSSE to MVP

ptu testers excluded

are you satisfied...

about PU 2.4

can CIG break the stigma

the flight ready fallacy

people bad mouthing star citizen

update a month <----lol

Your move.
 
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Electrofreak

E
bitstorm said:
HI,

You seem to be following SC/Sq42 development pretty closely.

Can I ask about Sq42 specifically, Max (God rest his soul) painted a picture of it being some sort of Far Cry style game. ie a sort of open world wander around find missions, do missions sort of affair.

It's just I'd be more interested in a single player, cinematic, linear experience in the traditional space game style, and I was a bit surprised when Max started talking about this.

Is this right? What do you think?
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Eh, I'm not here to sell the game. The idea is you have a small capital ship as your home, you wander around, talk to people, build relationships etc, then when a fight happens you have multiple ways to participate. Perhaps you jump in your fighter, or maybe they'd rather have you on a boarding ship.

Really, it's just a next-generation Wing-Commander with FPS options. The Morrow Tour is about the only real sneak-peek we've gotten that's in-engine.

I'll leave it at that. People in this thread are looking for a "Cultist" to tie to a stake, and I'm not looking for any of that.

Asp Explorer said:
But what makes a "fan"?

I like Elite - I put quite a chunk of money in - I enjoyed the Alpha - I am enjoying what they delivered at release, and will continue to deliver throughout the development process.

I like Star Citizen - I put quite a chunk of money in - I am still waiting for them to deliver the Alpha.
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I'm confused, what is the Alpha PU then? Alpha = project in development that is not yet feature-complete. Isn't that exactly what CIG has playable today?

dsmart said:
No. How about we read these instead?

we have been lied to

from BDSSE to MVP

ptu testers excluded

are you satisfied...

about PU 2.4

can CIG break the stigma

the flight ready fallacy

update a month <----lol

Your move.
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Over a million fans on a project behind schedule. Yes, there will be many that are unhappy. That doesn't mean the project is doomed to failure.

Again, that's subjective. Didn't you at least get a dictionary along with those two diploma-mill PhDs?

http://www.diffen.com/difference/Objective_vs_Subjective
 
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1500

1500
Electrofreak said:
And honestly, I don't have a problem with this statement. Mistakes were made at the leadership level, there is no doubt of that. But for Derek Smart to come in here, tap the side of his nose, and claim that he knows that SC is going to fail is ridiculous. His track record speaks for itself.

I'm perfectly fine with letting the whole "Derek Smart is an angry man with an agenda" argument die if he'd actually stick to the facts himself. Watching him cite himself as a source over and over though is hilarious to witness.



We know Star Citizen is vastly behind schedule. This isn't news to anyone. Star Marine was completed (or nearly so) by Illfonic, and Chris Roberts decided it wasn't up to his standards, and decided he wouldn't release it. The work was mostly done, it just wasn't delivered. The studio reports show that they're continuing to work on this stuff, and yes, they're a little too optimistic, but you can also read through countless monthly reports where it was documented that they were working on something, and it got released to the PU or AC. Item System 2.0 and the whole shopping / character/hanger/ship customization mechanic is the most recent example of this.
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So if by Chris Roberts standards you mean broken, half thought out and junk, then ya Illfonic showcasing a working viable FPS would not live up to that standard. The reality is that CR and CIG are known for rushing out broken incomplete junk that is bug filled mess. That is CIG's history, this is the company that took a FPS engine and made it so that it sucked at being a FPS.

As I have posted before, Illfonic showed a working FPS, with working FPS mechanics and working animations, deploy able items, cover system. CIG took that working components and broken them so hard that 1.5 years latter they are still not in the game. And what is in the game is junk.

While some of the stuff in the reports show up in one form or the other, they are never working as well as they claimed in reports, and there are tons of stuff that never see the light of day.
 

Marc Alexander

Marc Alexander
I for one welcome the sudden influx of new forum members. Please take the time to frequent yourself with other parts of the forum too (which I'm sure you are anyway). You may want to introduce yourselves here, thereby ingratiating yourselves with the rest of the community.

Right on commandos o7
 

Prince Thrakkath

P
Asp Explorer said:
But what makes a "fan"?

I like Elite - I put quite a chunk of money in - I enjoyed the Alpha - I am enjoying what they delivered at release, and will continue to deliver throughout the development process.

I like Star Citizen - I put quite a chunk of money in - I am still waiting for them to deliver the Alpha.
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Exactly this, I put far more money into SC and received far less than I did with ED to date. I also feel Frontier have made every possible effort to deliver the game as pitched in their original kickstarter(they failed on single player offline and acknowledged their failure). CIG have outright lied about so many things its impossible to count, can any of the 'new' posters defending CIG's business practices when they said Star Marine was ready in 'weeks' ? Was that not a lie? Were they so completely and utterly incompetent that they thought a complete FPS model would be ready in weeks when it ended up completely cancelled?

If Frontier pulled something like this would they have herds of sheep like fans defending their actions? They would literally be torn asunder by angry backers and the press. Seriously some of you guys need to take a long hard look at yourselves, you enable this type of behaviour to continue by shutting down criticism and rational discussion and are far more of problem for Star Citizen the project than mister Smart could ever be.
 
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bitstorm

bitstorm
Electrofreak said:
God, it's like a bunch of girls in high school in here.
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High school girls? Hmmm.

Not being funny but it was (reasonably) ok in here till a bunch of mostly harmless with some sort of pre-existing vendetta suddenly turned up, got the thread locked, and now seem to be calling people names.
 
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dsmart

Banned
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Neo-ST said:
Is it still possible for an early backer (generation 2012) to get a refund for his pledge to SC ?
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It depends. Read this.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Stigbob said:
Star citizens theoretical failure isn't something that would happen on multiple occasions, it's a thing may or may not happen. He's right or he's wrong, we don't know yet. Personally I think he's probably right only time will tell.

The "two weeks" thing is a joke that relates to CIG's habit of repeatedly giving and breaking two week deadlines for star marine. It's not a serious prediction or timescale.
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Yeah, that "two weeks" thing always crack me up when they quote it, despite not even knowing i) the origin ii) that it's a jab at CIG's imaginary delivery predictions
 

proKar_garlic

Banned
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Derek spitting lying blogs don't make them facts, facts is that since Wing Commander (remember that email that you sent to Chris Roberts threatening to sue him for ""copying battlecruiser features"" ?) you've had a grudge against Chris Roberts, everyone knows it in the industry it's public, Pathetic then, pathetic now.

Just face the inevitable , just because you like space games, invested some time reading tutorials and changed your last name to Smart doesn't make you a successful game dev. Much less "the first indie dev dinosaur" lol . Remember the mIRC battles , when you would go out of your way to fight critics of battlecruiser, well it's exactly what the people you call "shiIizens" "shills" whatever, those are passionate about a game so they go the mile for it.

You really wanna quote me? Remember Luis from Chile? Kyril from Chech republic? You still own them money, like thousands yet you are worried about other games and other dev's instead of paying people that worked their asses off for you in good will, people that trusted you, how could you do this to us and them act like nothing happened.
 
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Tuub t Tute

T
The only point of interest on the BBC piece is at 12:19 when Chris states that "We are aiming to have that (SQ42) out by the end of the year; so we are working really hard on that."

Closest thing anyone has to a time or deadline on the project, straight from the CEO and to a reputable broadcaster. I appreciate aims are wonderful things, depending on the flight model.
 
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Electrofreak

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1500 said:
So if by Chris Roberts standards you mean broken, half thought out and junk, then ya Illfonic showcasing a working viable FPS would not live up to that standard. The reality is that CR and CIG are known for rushing out broken incomplete junk that is bug filled mess. That is CIG's history, this is the company that took a FPS engine and made it so that it sucked at being a FPS.

As I have posted before, Illfonic showed a working FPS, with working FPS mechanics and working animations, deploy able items, cover system. CIG took that working components and broken them so hard that 1.5 years latter they are still not in the game. And what is in the game is junk.

While some of the stuff in the reports show up in one form or the other, they are never working as well as they claimed in reports, and there are tons of stuff that never see the light of day.
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I think a big part of it all is the promised "seamless" gameplay. Yes, SM could have been released and people could have played it. It'd be like Zero-G Space Quake. But could they have made it work with the rest of Star Citizen? When you have two fundamentally different pieces of software and you want to make them work together flawlessly, it all has to be built that way from the ground up.

I personally thing CIG screwed up big-time thinking they could just hire Illfonic, have them build a typical CryEngine FPS game, and then shoe-horn it into the rest of Star Citizen. Perhaps they ran into unexpected engine limitations (probably the double-precision required by the spaceflight element) but it definitely cost them.

I wouldn't call what's in the game junk. Most of it is finally coming to something usable, but it's still hamstrung by netcode issues; from what I can tell it's related to the way object updates are handled. Something the new Item system may address, as it addresses in-game objects hierarchically so that object updates can encompass a number of objects (like a player and all the objects attached to him, or a ship and all the objects attached to it) rather than handling all object data individually.

But, this is speculation by someone who is a programmer, but doesn't work on CryEngine and video games.
 

dsmart

Banned
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Barking_Mad said:
Derek's broad assertion that the game as pitched by CR in its broad detail cannot be made for $114m is correct. SC backers say "It will take time because it's the most ambitious game ever made" whilst failing to accept they can't make that game for that amount of money,even if they had been extreme well project managed, which they clearly haven't. I don't agree it's likely to collapse, but the game will slowly be transitioned to reflect the available budget and there'd be the likely fallout.
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Thing they're ignoring is that, since I made that statement in my first July 2015 blog, they have already proven it to be true given all the promises they've walked back, features cut etc. And the MVP thing pretty much solidifies my statement, which I will repeat here for brevity.

Without disrespect to anyone, I’m just going to say it: it is my opinion that, this game, as has been pitched, will never get made. Ever.
There isn’t a single publisher or developer on this planet who could build this game as pitched, let alone for anything less than $150 million.

The original vision which I backed in 2012? Yes, that was totally doable. This new vision? Not a chance.

The technical scope of this game surpasses GTAV, not to mention the likes of Halo.

Do you have any idea what those games cost to make and how long they took?

Do you know how many games which cost $50 million to make took almost five years to release? And they were nowhere in scope as Star Citizen?
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bitstorm

bitstorm
proKar_garlic said:
Derek spitting lying blogs don't make them facts, facts is that since Wing Commander (remember that email that you sent to Chris Roberts threatening to sue him for ""copying battlecruiser features"" ?) you've had a grudge against Chris Roberts, everyone knows it in the industry it's public, Pathetic then, pathetic now.

Just face the inevitable , just because you like space games, invested some time reading tutorials and changed your last name to Smart doesn't make you a successful game dev. Much less "the first indie dev dinosaur" lol . Remember the mIRC battles , when you would go out of your way to fight critics of battlecruiser, well it's exactly what the people you call " izens" "shills" are doing, they are passionate about something so they go the mile for it.

You really wanna quote me? Remember Luis from Chile? Kyril from Chech republic? You still own them money, like thousands yet you are worried about other games and other dev's instead of paying people that worked their asses off for you in good will, people that trusted you, how could you do this to us and them act like nothing happened.
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I think you're looking at a warning and/or ban if you keep on. You only joined the other day, 4 posts.
 
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dsmart

Banned
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Lysander lysan said:
FD never took +$100 mil. from the backers and the only thing you could argue FD didn't deliver was the offline mode. Everyone who wanted a refund because of that could get it by contacting FD. Case close.
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That's another thing. They keep trying to compare a feature that ED removed - and for which they offered REFUNDS - to this ongoing train wreck for which they are actively refusing refunds. I actually covered that over here in this official statement because they also keep saying how I was attacking ED and SC; which is patently false.
 
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Electrofreak

E
bitstorm said:
High school girls? Hmmm.

Not being funny but it was (reasonably) ok in here till a bunch of mostly harmless with some sort of pre-existing vendetta suddenly turned up, got the thread locked, and now seem to be calling people names.
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No names, just referencing the juvenile tone of some in this thread.

I'd rather discuss the pros and cons of the game rather than engage in a war with Derek and his friends.
 

dsmart

Banned
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Voivod said:
Wow some of Max's opinions on that reddit thread about posters here really show his true feelings :)
We're just a bunch of "extremist haters", "trolls" and "aggressive people" that try to misguide people who "have no idea what's going on in here".

I love the irony though when he mentions witch hunts while posting on a thread in /r/dererksmart
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yeah, we're having a grand old time manipulating them over on /r/ds - it's a fantastic PR win for me because everything is collated in a single place - which will still be there long after the inevitable collapse.
 

proKar_garlic

Banned
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