General / Off-Topic Hats off to the moderation team

[Chris Simon]

I decided to focus on things like playing a game and helping newbies, which I always enjoyed the most and will retreat from the DD hell for a couple of weeks, probably.

I just wanted to say - massive kudos, peoples. I wouldn't want to be in your skin.

I tried to fight the negativity with reason, explain things to people who didn't understand, but as I've become gradually irritated, I am nearing the point where I would start collecting infractions.

The quote from SWTOR comes to mind:
"As far as war zones go, this one isn't that bad"
"That just means you haven't been here long enough"

So good luck, over there. You're real heroes of this community, that, at times, fail to commune.

 

[Patrick_68000]

And they are volunteers ...

 

[Chris Simon]

And they are volunteers ...

That's the worst part of it. They have to put up with so much bullcrap and what's their reward...

 

[Minonian]

Agreed.

But enough of this. (no brown nosing PLS!)
Here is a tough can we have a separate session to culture? i meant music, movies, series, books, ECTS?

 

[Brett C]

That's the worst part of it. They have to put up with so much bullcrap and what's their reward...

According to some peoples, their reward is being paid in "FrontierMoney" to lobby against "all the things".

 

[BACKER #-4112]

According to some peoples, their reward is being paid in "FrontierMoney" to lobby against "all the things".

According to the internet, the exchange rate is quite good at the moment.
Although you shouldn't believe everything you read on the internet. So I'm told.

Spoiler

 

[Kerrash]

When did we start getting paid?! #Ragequit

 

[Surfinjo]

OK, we get it, Mods are insecure, inadequate individuals who bask in toadying adulation.

Show some self respect. Please.

 

[Loskene]

OK, we get it, Mods are insecure, inadequate individuals who bask in toadying adulation.

Show some self respect. Please.

This. And mindless sycophancy towards them is sickening to look at. As someone who was responsible for the mod team in a much larger, much less kid friendly community, you guys have absolutely no idea how easy you have it here, and you still manage to do an absolute kack job of it. Whether that's down to lack of training or poor procedural standards I cannot say, but while being as uninsulting as possible (we know how well you take any form of perceived offense) I just have to say most of you guys suck and should probably quit.
Toodle pip.

 

[Yaffle]

This. And mindless sycophancy towards them is sickening to look at. As someone who was responsible for the mod team in a much larger, much less kid friendly community, you guys have absolutely no idea how easy you have it here, and you still manage to do an absolute kack job of it. Whether that's down to lack of training or poor procedural standards I cannot say, but while being as uninsulting as possible (we know how well you take any form of perceived offense) I just have to say most of you guys suck and should probably quit.
Toodle pip.

We do speak very highly of you though.

 

[Chris Simon]

This. And mindless sycophancy towards them is sickening to look at. As someone who was responsible for the mod team in a much larger, much less kid friendly community, you guys have absolutely no idea how easy you have it here, and you still manage to do an absolute kack job of it. Whether that's down to lack of training or poor procedural standards I cannot say, but while being as uninsulting as possible (we know how well you take any form of perceived offense) I just have to say most of you guys suck and should probably quit.
Toodle pip.

Wowzers.

 

[Loskene]

We do speak very highly of you though.

Snark aside, there are some things I'm curious to know, to help get a better idea of the situation you got going on here. No I don't expect you to answer or to have answers for all of these. Brett would probably be the best man to address it but his ego gives me pause. Anyway;

What training, if any, did you receive upon being made a moderator?
Is there any requirement beyond volunteering to become one?
Do you have any oversight? Is anyone specifically responsible for your actions?
Is there any accessible log of moderator actions, either for your superiors or the general public?
How do you receive post reports? What is the average delay between a report being made and a staff member seeing it?
Is there any realtime communication between staff or is it all forum messages?
Do you handle appeals yourself? If not, what is involved in appealing a questionable mod decision, from the point of view of a user?

There's a lot more I could go into but basically what I'm trying to gauge here is if there's any sense of the watchers being watched. Because that has historically proven to be the only way to get someone to respect the power they've been handed, especially if it required no effort to obtain in the first place. Simply put, people don't use power responsibly unless they're threatened with it being taken away. So my last question is has anyone ever been given the boot from your team? I know I've seen more than one action that would be a grounds for immediate dismissal where I came from, so it would be rather telling of how disputes are handled internally here if nobody ever has.

It's easy to not take something like the moderators seriously in a community, from the point of view of the people running it. They're just janitors after all, right? They don't need much attention paid to them, they're just here to clean the floors whenever someone pukes on it. Wrong.
The actions of the mod team and the attitude they foster because of them, they absolutely define the community. They set the tone for how your community is regarded by the rest of the internet, and if they do a poor job containing problematic elements or simply go around abusing their power and trying to cover their own arses, the community will suffer for it.
Now already this place has a reputation for "     mods" that "shill for frontier" without a second thought. What would you say to that, and how would you go about addressing those concerns?

 

[Yaffle]

Snark aside, there are some things I'm curious to know, to help get a better idea of the situation you got going on here. No I don't expect you to answer or to have answers for all of these. Brett would probably be the best man to address it but his ego gives me pause. Anyway;

What training, if any, did you receive upon being made a moderator?

Lots. Technical in vBulletin and expectations. New mods are also mentored.

Is there any requirement beyond volunteering to become one?

Nobody volunteered, we were all asked. Some say no, some say yes.

Do you have any oversight? Is anyone specifically responsible for your actions?

yes

Is there any accessible log of moderator actions, either for your superiors or the general public?

yes

How do you receive post reports? What is the average delay between a report being made and a staff member seeing it?

No idea on average time to see a report. Staff members are only involved if there's a complaint or something contentious.

Is there any realtime communication between staff or is it all forum messages?

Realtime

Do you handle appeals yourself? If not, what is involved in appealing a questionable mod decision, from the point of view of a user?

Why not check out the forum guidelines where it tells you that? We make mistakes, when a complaint comes in it is looked at by a person independent of the entire thread where the post was made. This would usually be Brett, but may be another FD person

There's a lot more I could go into but basically what I'm trying to gauge here is if there's any sense of the watchers being watched. Because that has historically proven to be the only way to get someone to respect the power they've been handed, especially if it required no effort to obtain in the first place. Simply put, people don't use power responsibly unless they're threatened with it being taken away. So my last question is has anyone ever been given the boot from your team? I know I've seen more than one action that would be a grounds for immediate dismissal where I came from, so it would be rather telling of how disputes are handled internally here if nobody ever has.

and now you have it.

It's easy to not take something like the moderators seriously in a community, from the point of view of the people running it. They're just janitors after all, right? They don't need much attention paid to them, they're just here to clean the floors whenever someone pukes on it. Wrong.
The actions of the mod team and the attitude they foster because of them, they absolutely define the community. They set the tone for how your community is regarded by the rest of the internet, and if they do a poor job containing problematic elements or simply go around abusing their power and trying to cover their own arses, the community will suffer for it.
Now already this place has a reputation for " mods" that "shill for frontier" without a second thought. What would you say to that, and how would you go about addressing those concerns?

Yep, we shill all the time. I've just checked and there is not one negative thread anywhere on the forums. Not a single one, oh no. We delete them all you see. All gone.

We'll skip the insults this time, because we're bigger than that.

 

[Loskene]

Lots. Technical in vBulletin and expectations. New mods are also mentored.

Good, good.

Nobody volunteered, we were all asked. Some say no, some say yes.

Definitely a good start. I'd be curious as to the criteria for what made someone worth asking though, without going into too much detail (which would take ages) there are good traits and bad traits and they're not always as straightforward as you might think.

No idea on average time to see a report. Staff members are only involved if there's a complaint or something contentious.

Sorry, didn't mean frontier employees, just moderators.

Realtime

Good, good. Combining this and the last query somewhat, is the report system somewhere everyone can see it updating in realtime?

Why not check out the forum guidelines where it tells you that? We make mistakes, when a complaint comes in it is looked at by a person independent of the entire thread where the post was made. This would usually be Brett, but may be another FD person

Now we're getting tinges of snark again. I asked you because I want your answer.

and now you have it.

OK it seems like you're just getting fed up with reading all of this now because you missed the question in there.

Yep, we shill all the time. I've just checked and there is not one negative thread anywhere on the forums. Not a single one, oh no. We delete them all you see. All gone.

We'll skip the insults this time, because we're bigger than that.

We were going so well there but it looks like you've given up and are back to treating genuine inquiries as some sort of jab at you personally. Disappointing, but that's your choice.

Very well, I'll bother you no more.

 

[Surfinjo]

We do speak very highly of you though.

No, you volunteer.

By definition, you do it without asking for or seeking reward.

If you do the job badly, the forum will simply collapse, as so many others have done.

How difficult the job is isn't the issue. You do it because you want to. End of.

Yet this is the second thread about moderators, that last, 4 pages long, finished only 4 days ago.

Have a bit of class and close both these threads. We get the message.

 

[Andy Kappa]

Very well, I'll bother you no more.

What a shame. No, really.

Whether you actually live up to that promise remains to be seen of course.

 

[Chris Simon]

No, you volunteer.

By definition, you do it without asking for or seeking reward.

If you do the job badly, the forum will simply collapse, as so many others have done.

How difficult the job is isn't the issue. You do it because you want to. End of.

Yet this is the second thread about moderators, that last, 4 pages long, finished only 4 days ago.

Have a bit of class and close both these threads. We get the message.

Oh kay.
Really didn't expect these to come to off-topic section.

Nevermind. I conveyed my message - there are people who appreciate and value highly the mods' work. People who will probably rather stay silent, next time, to avoid drawing attention of vultures.

This thread can be locked, if someone feels like it.

o7

 

[rootsrat]

I decided to focus on things like playing a game and helping newbies, which I always enjoyed the most and will retreat from the DD hell for a couple of weeks, probably.

I just wanted to say - massive kudos, peoples. I wouldn't want to be in your skin.

I tried to fight the negativity with reason, explain things to people who didn't understand, but as I've become gradually irritated, I am nearing the point where I would start collecting infractions.

The quote from SWTOR comes to mind:
"As far as war zones go, this one isn't that bad"
"That just means you haven't been here long enough"

So good luck, over there. You're real heroes of this community, that, at times, fail to commune.

Thanks for a good word, appreciate it.

We're all livin' the dream here!

On a more serious note, I think we all enjoy what we do. Anyone can quit at any time, and yet we're all here doing our best to keep the forums a friendly place... It can be overwhelming at times, but most of the times it's fun, in a way.

Guess it's a hobby of sorts

Plus, we all get to blame TJ and not getting banned for it, ha!

 

[Brett C]

Snark aside, there are some things I'm curious to know, to help get a better idea of the situation you got going on here. No I don't expect you to answer or to have answers for all of these. Brett would probably be the best man to address it but his ego gives me pause. Anyway;

Am I that menacing? [knocked out]

What training, if any, did you receive upon being made a moderator?

Training generally goes up to two weeks once said person has accepted volunteer moderation duties. We've many documents made, guidance methods, and what is expected of a moderator.

Is there any requirement beyond volunteering to become one?

Having knowledge in Elite Dangerous on the Elite Dangerous forums is a major player outside of the person selected being supportive, helpful, and generally well received on the forums.

Do you have any oversight? Is anyone specifically responsible for your actions?

Myself and Zac oversee moderation actions performed by the moderation team. I generally do daily and weekly reviews of moderation actions performed.

Is there any accessible log of moderator actions, either for your superiors or the general public?

Next to every moderation action performed is logged in some form or fashion. There's no plans to make said moderation actions public. Moderators are expected to post to a thread if they lock or delete a thread on the forums.

How do you receive post reports? What is the average delay between a report being made and a staff member seeing it?

All reports are located in a central location on the forums. None are sent via email (they use to be a few years ago!). Every report has its own unique thread. Each post post is its own unique report. Consecutive reports of the same post are added to the thread originally reported. All moderator are required to post in the reported thread in the mod section of their desired actions, carried out actions or seeking additional input.

The average delay varies per each day of the week, sometimes it's within the minute(!) and other times it can be up to six hours. Moderators are not required to have a minimum amount of 'resolved reports' or 'applied moderation actions'.We do ask that all moderators do not spend an exuberant amount of time on the forums - they're volunteer, not paid by us to moderate.

Is there any realtime communication between staff or is it all forum messages?

There is real time communications to myself and others at Frontier via Discord and Skype.

Do you handle appeals yourself? If not, what is involved in appealing a questionable mod decision, from the point of view of a user?

Any and ALL moderation actions in terms of infractions and advisories go to and through me for removal or reversal. Moderators cannot reverse or remove advisories or infractions.

As for general thread moderation, that generally is from moderator to moderator discussions.

There's a lot more I could go into but basically what I'm trying to gauge here is if there's any sense of the watchers being watched. Because that has historically proven to be the only way to get someone to respect the power they've been handed, especially if it required no effort to obtain in the first place. Simply put, people don't use power responsibly unless they're threatened with it being taken away. So my last question is has anyone ever been given the boot from your team? I know I've seen more than one action that would be a grounds for immediate dismissal where I came from, so it would be rather telling of how disputes are handled internally here if nobody ever has.

Moderators who go "MIA from moderation" are removed after 60 days of inactivity without a reason given. Moderators who gave a reason and have not checked in within four months also will be removed. This is mainly due to security of the forums. Moderators have been given warnings over the time in private to "knock it off".

It's easy to not take something like the moderators seriously in a community, from the point of view of the people running it. They're just janitors after all, right? They don't need much attention paid to them, they're just here to clean the floors whenever someone pukes on it. Wrong.
The actions of the mod team and the attitude they foster because of them, they absolutely define the community. They set the tone for how your community is regarded by the rest of the internet, and if they do a poor job containing problematic elements or simply go around abusing their power and trying to cover their own arses, the community will suffer for it.
Now already this place has a reputation for "     mods" that "shill for frontier" without a second thought. What would you say to that, and how would you go about addressing those concerns?

Volunteer moderators on our forums are permitted to debate and discuss in threads freely with others. We just ask the moderators that if they've participated in a thread, do not moderate it as it poses an elevated risk of biased moderation. If that's what people wish to think about our moderation team being schills and all, then fine - that's their opinion on the matter, there's nothing more to say to that.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

They're just janitors after all, right?

Could be!