Discuss the AI here!

[MrSaddo]

Its all well and good for people who have been playing for long enough to become bored advocating harder AI, but remember this will make the game extremely unrewarding and frustrating for new players who may have otherwise become part of the community and bought their pals along with them. Without new players, a game eventually dies. I'd also like to point out that all the guys with their A-rated skills and A-rated ships honed those skills and paid for those ships by fighting in a much easier and financially rewarding environment than new players are now forced to. When you buy a new game (one that is a totally new genre to you) do you go straight onto legendary/insane/ultra hard difficulty setting? I don't think so.

Also I don't think the new AI classes as smart, so much as stupidly fast and omnipotent. Caught out by my python by a viper I knew that I was not going to out-turn it and that it was going to be behind me no matter what. I slam on the brakes. It reacts and stays right up my rear end. I drop vertically and pitch to get my top turret to bear on him. He reacts and stays right up my rear end. I put everything into engines and start boosting, gain some ground and turn to face him. He shoots right past me and get right back up my rear end. Even smart people make mistakes and have reaction times. This AI reacts as soon as you do and that just isn't fun. It does not feel like fightng a person so much as fighting a chess computer.

So it seems I am left with three choices: Quit the game, run away from every single combat in my ARMED trade ship and hope that I actaully get away (3 out of 4 times since the update I haven't) or sell up A-rate a cheap fighter and spend my entire elite gaming time 'getting gud' rather than what I would like to do (trade/mine/explore). What would you do?

 

[MoarDan]

Moderators, please stop closing threads without a more valid reason than "Closed in an effort to control the proliferation of "New AI" threads".

Surely that is counter-productive and goes against the whole idea of freedom of dicussion. The only way Frontier will actually stop and take notice is if they see just how many players have been negatively affected by the recent updates. The mere fact that there is a "proliferation of New AI threads" should be a massive red flag to FD. People aren't happy, people aren't staying, and every thread you close is one less chance of FD seeing the problem.

Let us speak. Let us vent. Let us try to get through to Frontier. I like the AI, I like a challenge. What I don't like is insurmountable odds from NPCs so OP that you die before your FSD has even cooled down after submitting to an interdiction. There's difficult...and then there is ridiculous. Quite obviously i'm not the only one, if you are closing threads with the reason being "Closed in an effort to control the proliferation of "New AI" threads".

 

[Montrala]

Based of my limited testing (Adder and Eagle almost killed my A-grade FAS and single FAS sent me home with low hull and cracked canopy) I voted that it is just right, however:

1. While I did not encounter plasma machine gun I have this feeling that Railguns on Eagle were firing far to often, almost like on automatic. I'm not sure if Eagle can have enough juice in power distributor and thermal capacity for this fire density (no proof of that on file). I did not count how many times it fired, was all to busy surviving.
2. I think that with higher NPC piloting skills bounties on NPC or CZ payouts should be adjusted higher.

Generally I felt like.... NPC hunted by CMDR. Strange feeling.

 

[kpmop]

Hello Commanders

There is a reason why some People like to play in Single-Player Mode. Frontier didn't recognize that, it seem's so !
...

The only difference there is / has ever been between Open and Single player mode is that in open you might meet other human CMDRs (or close approximations). The NPCs and their AI behave exactly the same.

....

To my main reason for posting - just got melted a few times in my (now retired) Type-7. The NPC AI is fine for combat, but needs toning down for piracy - or the should at least give some indication of how much cargo will satisfy them: "Give me cargo!" ZAP ZAP <shields mostly gone, so drops 10t of cargo> ZAP ZAP, "More!!" ZAP ZAP <80% hull, drops another 20t> ZAP ZAP "More!!" ZAP ZAP BOOOM! This even before the FSD cooldown has finished (yeah, maybe I should have submitted...). So I've retired the Type 7. Back to the Type-6 which has much better re-buy/potential profit ratio.

 

[resonic]

In my opinion the AI is cheating a lot when it comes to ammo. They seem to have unlimited missiles onboard.

 

[Kyokushin]

In my opinion the AI is cheating a lot when it comes to ammo. They seem to have unlimited missiles onboard.

Have You heard about synthesis? Maybe this is the answer.

There is no cheat on AI. The Mommy answered that and i belive her. NPC are playing in the same mechanics as we. Sarah have done the job perfectly.

 

[PavelKCZ]

Have You heard about synthesis? Maybe this is the answer.

There is no cheat on AI. The Mommy answered that and i belive her. NPC are playing in the same mechanics as we. Sarah have done the job perfectly.

Synthesis ? Do you want to say that NPCs are riding around planets in buggys and shooting rocks ? Without this part, there should be no synthesis for NPC, because they don't have materials.

 

[Noddie]

Hmm. But I believe the videos on YouTube of one-shot instakill.

Nothing to do with AI, though. It's a bug.

 

[Kyokushin]

Synthesis ? Do you want to say that NPCs are riding around planets in buggys and shooting rocks ? Without this part, there should be no synthesis for NPC, because they don't have materials.

I met NPC flying over surfaces, so they could also have a buggy and they can collect materials. You do not know what they are doing in their free time

 

[jadefriendly]

Have You heard about synthesis? Maybe this is the answer.

There is no cheat on AI. The Mommy answered that and i belive her. NPC are playing in the same mechanics as we. Sarah have done the job perfectly.

well, in my opinion - the game is either bugged, or it now sucks.

and if this is how it's going to be, I'm out. Being killed in 5 seconds by an NPC simply isn't fun.
and this is from a long time fan of Elite, Frontier, First Encounters, then the X series, Privateer, Tachyon, Freelancer, Wing Commander, Darkspace, etc.

the worst thing about the game though, is this forum. wow there are some          s. Anyone who uses the phrases "Git Gud" or "Carebears" etc. can do one.

 

[Mortmal]

The AI is not the problem, its a good thing to have improved Ai and a challenge, the problem is the risk vs reward. Killing npcs , doing combat zones etc, was dull and easy and paying very little, far less than doing trading let alone smuggling runs. Now its extremely hard, i had even trouble killing a deadly eagle in my vulture, doing a combat zone alone is impossible and even if i bring a team the money wont cover the damage costs.

Yesterday i was interdicted using my t7 , in a few sec my ship was blown into bits,millions lost and cargo too ... Fair enough trading is dull and boring anyway, i resell it all and go back to vulture . I get intercepted by a fer de lance even if i was not carrying any cargo, i survived with 75% hull and luckily high sec security force helping.I am trying a combat zone (low intensity) meager rewards , exactly the same pay as before but my vulture is blown into bits.
So the only way to make money doing combat i can find is USS low threats in high sec sectors, with police force helping to collect the bounties. I look around bulletin boards , thers very few i can take, pay is insulting , i doubt i can take the same missions as before. Same problem still pays nothing but now extremely hard combat .

An evening of losses, millions of losses with very little pay 100 k or so , i am pretty sure with that system it would take me 10 years to buy a fer de lance after my vulture.

 

[Radamanthe]

I assume everyone who votes "just right" hasn't been insta-killed by an overpowered NPC yet

You're assuming wrong. I've been insta-killed by bugged NPCs at least 2 times already and I voted "just right". Because you see, I'm wise enough to know what is a bug and what is a skilled AI. There is a thread for that bug as there is a thread for the AI (this one).

 

[Kyokushin]

well, in my opinion - the game is either bugged, or it now sucks.

and if this is how it's going to be, I'm out. Being killed in 5 seconds by an NPC simply isn't fun.
and this is from a long time fan of Elite, Frontier, First Encounters, then the X series, Privateer, Tachyon, Freelancer, Wing Commander, Darkspace, etc.

the worst thing about the game though, is this forum. wow there are some          s. Anyone who uses the phrases "Git Gud" or "Carebears" etc. can do one.

I think you all just playing in 0 pips in shields, or in some really not skilly way. I am played three days after release and never died. I played in Courier, Clipper and Conda. NPC few times dropped my shields, but there was not any insta-kill... however, i balanced shields, and this is a point. Without that your shields will melt quickly.

... or maybe there is some insta-kill bug what i just do not experienced yet. For me everything was fine, but some people experienced something what could be called 'insta kill'. FD should just look into it and resolve what this is: an noobish style of play or just bug in game. If the first, then these people should just die (in-game of course), in second - fd will fix the bug.

 

[verminstar]

Sarah have done the job perfectly.

If her job was to destroy the game utterly for new players, then she deserves a hefty raise for job well done.

At least some players are having fun so to hell with the rest of us eh?

 

[Kyokushin]

If her job was to destroy the game utterly for new players, then she deserves a hefty raise for job well done.

At least some players are having fun so to hell with the rest of us eh?

If you are new player you will adapt to new AI and new galaxy. You will be avoiding higher ranks NPC, dangerous places or dangerous situations. You will just watch your back.
You have the problem because your pre 2.1 habits are bad. It does not mean AI is wrong, it does meen you need to adapt and revise your style of play.
Newbies have no bad habits as We, they will adapt directly into the new 'reality'. For them it will just be a gameplay.

 

[TT_GreyWolf]

Why the AI fighters must be Strong?

There is a Modul for Multiplayer you can fight each other, maybe with crafted Guns, Shield and other equipment.

In the first time i see alot of this "Elite Bounty Hunters" in Multiplayer module, simply huntig small ships from poor Players. What a heroism Work.
Get the money from PVP Pirats ... oh i forgott you wan't be hurt or Destroyed your ship in an Riski fight.


Keep im Mind ....
A Cargoship or a Python has at the moment no real chance to get out of all this. So the only part that works, and realy not perfect ( look at the cheating AI video on Youtube ) and the endless burst firing Plasma canon, is the fight.

I spend more then 7 weeks intime, exploring, collecting, and sometimes bounty hunting, but now the only focus is set on fighting, and this is only possible when you got no Cargoship.

 

[Jaredd]

Seems only the elite/deadly rank pilots are enjoying the new AI, all lower rank players plus all the traders and explorers not so much...

 

[R3DB3RD]

Cleared my save and started fresh.
Played for about 15 hours, been interdicted twice.
Boosted and high waked to avoid the first one. My Sidewinder v Cobra... Nope.
Was a bit tougher to escape... But still did.
Was some time before I got interdicted again... In the meantime I worked some missions, some bountie's, a little cg work... Combat is tougher, after reading most of this thread I've certainly picked my fights very carefully.

Im now in an A rate Eagle. I've travelled across 50 odd systems during my endeavours.
My second interdiction I saw it was another eagle, I stayed and engaged.
Was tough, took about 15 minutes but I got him eventually.
It was more challenging and fun than I expected.

About me, well, I'm a self confessed solo player that can't handle combat. I'm currently ranked novice. That was the highest I got with my previous pilot, who was my first pilot. My CQC rank is helpless.
I am am an explorer first, then trader. I typically boost and run when interdicted.
The highest I made with previous save was 30 mill and a mostly D rated asp explorer.

I voted other because my experience is not the same as others and I am allowing the benefit of the doubt.

I was beginning to think I was being lucky, and I probably have been. As far as I'm concerned the Ai is an improvement, challenging for me, too tough mostly (my combat skills won't get better because my reactions will never improve, I play within my limits) but certainly not insanely difficult.

I do employ some basics when flying...

- When in Sc I never go straight to station. I stay well out of the shipping lane and anything that looks even remotely menacing, I'm moving away and circling.
- If do get interdicted, I'm using next hostile bind to identify threat and determine wether to boost and Sc or boost and high wake.
- Never stay still gawping and stars or switching Netflix.
-The bulletin board is excellent now and I take only missions, under what I'm eligible for. Mostly courier, data etc.
- I'm choosey about CGs, I don't Do Powerplay, and I pay my fines and bountie's immediately.

So far my experience of the update is positive, and I love lots of little touches here and there that add to immersion.

I feel sorry for those having a hard time, and there are obviously some serious bugs around, I expect FD will be working on them. They're not a bunch of so and so's, they're just a bunch of guys trying to get the game right to the best of their abilities.
Give them some time.

 

[Kyokushin]

If you have cargo fitted Python, and you are interdicted by two Pythons or ELITE combat NPC python what should you want to do, fight? Maybe you also want to win?

No - in a cargo fitted ship you silmply should RUN, even from combat fitted high ranked Vulture, even maybe a Viper.
Why? Because your ship is NOT prepared to fight.

Universal PvE/cargo builds are over. If you wan cargo, then you need to have enough shields to survive, thrusters to RUN and you should be focused on RUNning instead on fighting.
If you want to win,then you should build your ships with more shields, weapons, armours and SCB's instead of cargo racks.

This sounds you want to take a race with agrimotor in F1 challenges. If you want to win in F1, you need a race car, not agrimotor.

 

[Mortmal]

If you are new player you will adapt to new AI and new galaxy. You will be avoiding higher ranks NPC, dangerous places or dangerous situations. You will just watch your back.
You have the problem because your pre 2.1 habits are bad. It does not mean AI is wrong, it does meen you need to adapt and revise your style of play.
Newbies have no bad habits as We, they will adapt directly into the new 'reality'. For them it will just be a gameplay.

They will adapt to reality indeed, by asking steam for a refund. As soon the new player will leave the station and realize he can do nothing at all, that will be quick.