Discuss the AI here!

[Stigbob]

I just got jumped by a master imperial eagle (NPC) whilst taking a max range stripped down viper 3 to an engineer so I could fit enhanced thrusters, I hadn't set my fire groups and the build was all d-rating bar FSD and shields fixed burst and gimballed cannons. He got me down to one shield ring whilst I failed to outrun him and got my weapons setup (I did it backwards lasers on the thumb switch DOH), the only way I got him out of my blindspot was FA off and even then he was straight back in it whenever range closed up. I countered that with downthrust whilst turning into him opening the gap and negating his close range maneuver advantage. He used afterburners FA off and continually forced me to adapt, he had a turret on his dorsal hard-point that kept hitting me even when I had him dogged tight. It was a really close thing, I destroyed him just as my shields went down.

That NPC was only a master flying one of the weakest ships in the game, great fun.

I won because my idea of a stripped down max range taxi has a rated shields and decent guns, preparation is key (and always set your fire-groups).

 

[Kyokushin]

you are talking multi configs. im talking multirole. in aircraft, ,multirole means it can fight air to air and do air to ground/ship. maybe not both at the exact same moment in time but its loadout means it can fire missiles when targetting ships, and also defend itself in air to air, in the same mission. THATS multirole. other fighters in real life can as you say be configured for air to ground or for air to air, but they tend not to be called multirole because often they are good at one and ok at the other, and configed for one to the exclusion of the other for the specific mission.

this is my asp what would you call this config?

http://coriolis.io/outfit/asp/25A5A5A4E4A5D5C0s0s2424--0j---054b2i0m2t242f.Iw18WQ==.MwBj48EZLYCYRA==

So you are taking a 'multirole' here in a wrong way.
Multirole here means you can use this ship for few activities, and this ship will be good (but not perfect) in each activity if you prepare this ship for this activity.

An in the real life. F18 is a multirole fighter. It can be used both for air-air and air-ground... it will just depend of build. It can have only Sparrows or Sidewinders or only some bombs or Maverics.
It also can have as a Python here, maverics and sparrows, but will not be good both in air-air and air-ground. The same python with some shields and cargo racks will not be such good in combat as python only with cellbanks.

Your ASP is for nothing. Bad for combat, bad for trade or smuggle, bad in exploration. Your build is your choice, but this is not a fault of game if you build is poor. It is your build.

 

[space3k]

If her job was to destroy the game utterly for new players, then she deserves a hefty raise for job well done.

At least some players are having fun so to hell with the rest of us eh?

I agree with verminstar, since the new patch, although I have NOT been killed, my income from bounty hunting has dropped a bit, and I am using the tactics I was using in my Viper III i.e let the cops help me (though now I fly a FAS mostly, sometimes Vulture), sometimes if the cops are circling a few miles away, I attack even edeadly/dangerous and act as bait to drag them to the Cop Condas, boost away after cops engage them, let shields come back to 2 rings, rejoin the action and gain bounty rewards, so I CAN PLAY, but the AI now, is just too OP, elite sidey/eagles/addar with engineer mods are a bit too much. I was in the midst of considering buying Horizons, but, after patch 2.1, which effectively says, get Horizons or perish (no other way to get engineer mods for me) this I consider blackmail. I will not be forced into helping Frontier pump up their sales in this manner (I realize one customer will not impact the pro AI zealots here or Frontier) but this is how I feel.

AGAIN, the "pro destruction of non ACE pilots" group, read what I have written before bombarding me with "git gud/git bttr" I can hold my own, I have 10 ships, Vulture/FAS/DBS/Cobra mk III/couple of Viper III/AspE/sidey/addar/eagle all fully fitted with A mods (where it counts i.e thrusters fsd shields/boosters/otherwise D for jump rage). So I am not a newb, and as yet lucky enough not to have met the inta killer bug. Making decent (if not optimal) income. BUT whats wrong is wrong, pushing this patch and forcing people to buy Horizon (thats my perception of why this patch was created i.e boosting sales of Horizon).

 

[lysan]

Its still as boring pve wise as before ,exact same stuff, but now you cant even kill the npcs ! Its not a challenge its the most sadistic, grindy, unfair, unfun gaming experience i can remember of, and i game since the 80's.

I am original backer, and tbh if i am offered a full refund for elite and my life time pass, i would just agree, stop posting here, and leave in good term.

Sorry mate, you find the 2.0 NPCS FUN? they were brainless         , utterly garbage, I never could stand more than 5 min in RES or CZ because it was so boring. Every time I wanted a good dogfight I always returned to IL-2 or DCS just to check if the blood pump was still working. Now the NPC is fun challenging. Sure there are bug, they need to be reported, and smashed. This is how it should be.

TAKE CONTROL OF YOUR OWN STARSHIP IN A CUTTHROAT GALAXY.

 

[Smaste]

The current state of 2.1 and the forums.

I'm surprised they decided to keep this forum active. Perhaps that's something to do with four people disagreeing with someone and bombing the report system ^^ The discussions seem to be going in circles as others had mentioned yesterday.

People are saying the same things as they were yesterday, the only difference is that it's new faces arguing the opposing position, and the same people arguing in favour over and over... and over... and over.

For any new players to the forums here's some actual advice:

1) Avoid combat until the bugs implemented with 2.1 are fixed.
2) Avoid high value trade routes until the above condition is met
3) Please please please only fly ships which you are okay with losing in less than 1 second, that is if you insist on playing under these conditions.

These are if you insist on playing. If you can live without Elite Dangerous, please just don't play until it's fixed, because I can assure you it will cost you credits you don't want to lose.

The truth is there's a huge problem right now which some people are trying to play off as not a big deal; it is a big deal. People are losing millions of credits to the most ridiculous circumstances. Like this:
[video=youtube;oZN_yZ07-18]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZN_yZ07-18[/video]

If you have seen that video, and are outraged that this is in the live game, I implore you to not post about it here. You will not be taken seriously by the regulars. Yesterday, their consensus was that this video, right there, was possible for an A grade combat Python to be destroyed by a vulture in under 2 seconds:

'the guy had 1 pip in SYS.'


There is a shocking level of denial here. It took 6 videos demonstrating the same thing, posted multiple times, for any concessions to be made over the NPCs being completely bugged.

I was under the impression that this discussion encapsulated NPCs and AI. Unfortunately, as a result of a rash decision to quickly throw all criticism into one bubble and because of the ridiculous amount of threads stating the same things were started, we now have an environment which is toxic for anyone with a dissenting opinion and it's the same five people circling the drain defending these demonstrable bugs to their graves.

Folks who are reading this, please don't waste your time getting frustrated over this, and the shocking denial taking place on the Frontier Forums.

The fact is, the game is currently unplayable. So do yourselves a favour, and don't play it.

Since yesterday I got bombarded with reports for having the audacity to say something like this, I will not be responding to this forum following this message.

Have a good day,

fly safe-ly into a different game until this gets fixed

Those of you thinking about getting refunds. Please wait until we get an official response from a Developer which isn't along the lines of: "not very smart to have 1 pip in SYS". If you find that their handling of the issue is not satisfactory, then feel free to chase your money, but please don't do so as a rash response to the bugs and the uncanny response to those bugs on the forums.

Thanks.

 

[TT_GreyWolf]

It is realy easy....

thats what i hear ebout every thing in Elite Dangerous....
it is easy to fight the enemys or wanted
it is easy to mining
it is easy to trade
it is easy to explore

All this is what Frontier promised with there Game. And in the day's befor Engineers it is so.
But now ?

How can you Trade when meat after each jump an Assault ship thats balst you away before you can turn?
Run away?
No way...they're are more then 400m/s fast and you with all your boost ability how fast can you go? ( Cargoship - you can be happy by getting 300m/s )
And with this new Superpowers they even get overheating, while burstfiring plasma canons and supershields with powerplants bigger then a city


Then i look some video's about fighting ( they called spacialist or Elite )
They do nothing special what i do, but they always sit in the areas with security and don't firing anything on a ship before they Killscanners has made a distress call to the securtiy

On a trade run you're alone, no one is with you, and after each jump is waiting the death for you afdter this Update...

so where are the parts that Frontier is promised?

And for all you that is calling the AI was to Easy to fight, go to the Multiplayer and hunt for other players and take a real risk, not only hunting poor players with small ships tak big one before you answer

 

[Radicus]

As a casual, non-hardcore player I find the Ai abit overkill to be honest. I spent the last few months scrounging and scraping credits to finally afford a Python, upgrading from an ASP and Vulture which I used to farm in the HREZ zones, hoping that I would now be able to withstand a decent attack from those pesky smaller ships, and be able to do abit more deep-space exploration and trading with a larger ship and all it had to promise. I now find myself being picked on and getting dominated by smaller ships that should be just an annoyance. Even with class 7 powerplant and shield generator, they seem to cut through it like butter. Totally disappointed by having parted with my hard-earned credits on a ship that has no teeth or substance anymore. Thinking I should just sell it and go back to my ASP.

 

[Kyokushin]

That's fine. but the problem I have with that is that it isn't "Play your way!". It's became "Play our way!", do I expect to get jumped out in my trade python... yes. But I don't expect to get it done 13 times by a ship or 2 that can drop you in 2 or 3 shots.

This whole thing about "Learn to fight" (the polite version of "Git gud"), is telling me I should backtrack and drop down into a Cobra or Vulture just to be able to play and hold my own. I can fight, I do use FA off, I do know how to play and do builds. BUT I enjoy being a trader/explorer.

It's now at the stage for me where I no longer can play in peace til it's fixed (if it even does), it's became like my early time in Eve, sitting staring at a hanger because you know there is 3 or 4 hanging around outside because you had to sneak passed them on the way home.

Play your way, blaze Your own trial, in a game rules. FD are setting the rules. You can do anyting you want but by the game rules.

You can still do whatever you want. However if you want to insta kill ELITE Python, then sorry, you may of course try, and you CAN kill him, be you need a better skill or better ship. Thas are rules.

If you enjoy trade and explore, then trade explore. Do not fight, fly in trade/exploration builds. Just no fight if you dont want, simply fly away.

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

So you are taking a 'multirole' here in a wrong way.
Multirole here means you can use this ship for few activities, and this ship will be good (but not perfect) in each activity if you prepare this ship for this activity.

An in the real life. F18 is a multirole fighter. It can be used both for air-air and air-ground... it will just depend of build. It can have only Sparrows or Sidewinders or only some bombs or Maverics.
It also can have as a Python here, maverics and sparrows, but will not be good both in air-air and air-ground. The same python with some shields and cargo racks will not be such good in combat as python only with cellbanks.

Your ASP is for nothing. Bad for combat, bad for trade or smuggle, bad in exploration. Your build is your choice, but this is not a fault of game if you build is poor. It is your build.

we will have to agree to disagree. if you are speaking from past experience as a fighter pilot on the F18 hornet i dont know but i never met one who would have gone out on a mission without some air to air missiles. even if it was air to ground mission. i was under the impression that if jumped they dont evade to continue the mission they deal with the threat to themselves first then go back to the mission. dont see how they do it without any air to air missiles.

 

[Muetdhiver]

You do not get an interdiction by a FAS at every jump. Don't be ridiculous here.

I did several hours of rare trading a got interdicted a grand total of 5 times.
Seriously, if people could tone down the hyperboles, that would help.

The main problem is bugged OP modded weapons on NPC's. That is all. It will get fixed ASAP.

But being hysteric about AI when the problem is related to NPC loadouts only murks the waters.

 

[hunvagy]

you are talking multi configs. im talking multirole. in aircraft, ,multirole means it can fight air to air and do air to ground/ship. maybe not both at the exact same moment in time but its loadout means it can fire missiles when targetting ships, and also defend itself in air to air, in the same mission. THATS multirole. other fighters in real life can as you say be configured for air to ground or for air to air, but they tend not to be called multirole because often they are good at one and ok at the other, and configed for one to the exclusion of the other for the specific mission.

expanding further, this is why some aircraft are called air superiority. if they even have a loadout for air to ground, its not as effective as when loaded to gain control of the air from the enemy fighters.

this is my asp what would you call this config?

http://coriolis.io/outfit/asp/25A5A5A4E4A5D5C0s0s2424--0j---054b2i0m2t242f.Iw18WQ==.MwBj48EZLYCYRA==

That.. is quite a messy Asp build. No chaff, no point defence, no shield booster. Your life support is still E and weighs down the ship, and you're missing two weapons. I would say your biggest problem is the lack of passive defenses against the changed missiles and enemy weapons. With a chaff launcher you could possibly evade some fire, and with a point defence you could neutralize most dumbfire missiles, which it seems NPCs gotten fond of using. They buffed the missiles, so your shields aren't impervious to them anymore. And with power management (fuel scoop and afmu on priority 3) you could easily carry two more guns for more firepower.

 

[Weps]

Fighting the interdiction is a thing you know?

In a Type-7 or a Type-9 against a smaller interdictor? :|

Depends on the target. You can fit weapons to a trade ship without issue, cargo racks don't use a great deal of power.

I was merely answering to a previous suggestion: "If you wan cargo, then you need to have enough shields to survive, thrusters to RUN and you should be focused on RUNning instead on fighting."

 

[Kyokushin]

we will have to agree to disagree.

Sure mate, we do not need to agree, fine for me +rep for that way of end a difference in point of view.

And about F/A-18 Hornet - it was of course example. Two extreme builds. air only and ground only. I used it to show a similarity with Combat fitted python and strict cargo fitted python. You can do a crossbuild, but this will not be very good in combat, and you will loose some cargo space. You will not defeat a wing of eagles, but you will defeat a single or two eagles or viper, low or mid ranked.

 

[Boomer Kay]

It took 6 videos demonstrating the same thing, posted multiple times, for any concessions to be made over the NPCs being completely bugged.

There is 9000 players in the Bountyhunt CG alone. Where is the other 8994 cases that would support your "completely bugged" claim?

Tune down the outrage a bit, please. It does not help your case.

 

[Seonid]

So just now, with my scavenger iCourier in an Anarchy system, I (combat rank Master) was interdicted by a Mostly Harmless Viper, the low ranks are still out there.

 

[varonica]

To be honest here, the interdiction rate is not higher than before. (except if signed in powerplay, then it's crazy) and the interdictions are easier to fight off.

Yeah right, I must be a mug, I get interdicted every mission, every...single..mission. According to all the advice here I have adjusted my tactics as trader, I now run from everything! Doesn't matter what it is. Guess what happened my last mission after giving it another try? Now firstly I don't do PP, I have no bounties, no enemies.

So I take a mission, go out, get 12 tons of gold, come back. I check the mission level, lower than mine, I am novice combat. So 11 ly, easy 1 jump in python, buy the gold, only thing I am carrying, I have learned not to spend a lot of money on cargo, it's just wasted money. I exit into the target system, a few seconds later interdicted. I submit, I boost away, put 4 pips to shield, hit LW and a few seconds later I am out of there. About 2 seconds after I get into SC, interdicted, I submit, boost away, put 4 pips into shield, hit to LW, hindered by a mass 23 what? Two anacondas no less, 20 seconds later I am dead, another python insurance payment.

Before patch I earned enough to buy a python and was building up to upgrade to A class thrusters, shield and FSD, was leaving hull as light alloy to keep weight down. Since patch I have earned nothing, I get interdicted multiple times every mission, usually destroyed every second interdiction. I can't run the python anymore because I can't afford the insurance, I only use it for it's cargo capacity and the fact it can land at medium pads for better mission choice.

So I abandon mission, fly back, no interdiction, funny that.

So far every mission I take my python gets destroyed at least once, good rate that!

Even when I try to run I get destroyed by AI. Ok if it only happened every dozen or so times I go out I could probably still make money, but every mission. People say "you need a fighter and then the stupid "git gud" at combat." What's the point? I only want to be a trader, explorer, maybe a bit of mining, as it is now I am going to have to sell python so I can buy maybe an adder. Pointless being a trader then, 26 ton of cargo? Utter waste of time.

I didn't pay money to be a combat fighter, a reasonable level of danger, enemies my ship can handle at a pinch, fine, but every time I go out on a mission?

Not a game I want to play anymore.

I will hang around, see if it gets any better, if anyone replies with git gud to this post you can fantasise my reply because I don't want to get forum banned.

 

[lysan]

snip snip snip

I was actually agreeing with you until

The fact is, the game is currently unplayable. So do yourselves a favour, and don't play it.

What a load of hogwash, sorry mate you lost it right there, its not unplayable in any way at all.

I played the game all the time since 2.1 release and there were no issues other than one, and I reported that one.

I will file you under TROLL poster, as this is not serious at all and I for one are done taking you serious.

LMAO!

 

[Kyokushin]

I didn't pay money to be a combat fighter, a reasonable level of danger, enemies my ship can handle at a pinch, fine, but every time I go out on a mission?

Not a game I want to play anymore.

I will hang around, see if it gets any better, if anyone replies with git gud to this post you can fantasise my reply because I don't want to get forum banned.

Then don't fight. Just simply fly away.
If you are taking transport mission, then transport a cargo, not fight with the attacers, just fly away from them and deliver cargo.
If you are taking a combat mission, but you dont want to be a combat pilot, so i cannot help you here...

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

Smaste there are people saying those videos are not showing bugs they are showing weapon mods and are as intended. not devs just players. but even so this has caused me to stop playing. i will wait until i see what frontier say about the weapons in those videos. if they are bugged thats one thing i can wait until they are fixed before playing - saves me time making support tickets for reimbursement and frees up support to deal with others issues.

if they are not bugged the game is being uninstalled unless they also explicitly state you can get mods for shields to withstand them, where to get them from, how to get the engineer to invite and make sure the materials dont require me to drop modules to fit a mining laser and an srv to get. because my judgement of the games risk versus reward with those things in the game cant be a percentage. its a coin toss. if you get one you die. its either not much more risk than 2.0 in combat or 100% loss with nothing you can do if you get a bugged one.

toss in the interdiction issue which i again got lucky and it said instant evade, not instantly yanked out of sc (no evading if you dont have time to throttle down or move the stick even). its just not worth losing everything because sadly grinding anything isnt fun and for me mod mat grinding is something i dont want to have to do. and you HAVE to do it now. neither is grinding back up from sidey and no credits. and thats where i will be unmodded if the weapons are really a mod not a bug as was claimed.

 

[varonica]

You do not get an interdiction by a FAS at every jump. Don't be ridiculous here.

I did several hours of rare trading a got interdicted a grand total of 5 times.
Seriously, if people could tone down the hyperboles, that would help.

See my earlier post, that's exactly what seems to happen to me on every single mission! i can't take a mission without being interdicted multiple times and destroyed by far superior ships. Haven't come across anything I can handle at all since the patch.