Discuss the AI here!

[Ashal_ee]

When glancing over this thread I see a lot of people arguing about the game's AI. and me included. I'm torn on the Ai because i like it to be more difficult. During the Beta i had a ball and i love all three major trades of the game. I don't like to do just combat. i don't like to do just trading. or just exploration. to focus on one single one of those is boring to me. i've 1 rank below elite on combat, in trade, and in exploration, to be tripple elite has been my goal sense the beginning. Before any of you elitists start saying 'oh you earned those ranks in easy AI now you can't handle it.' sure i can. haven't died yet. That doesn't make the combat changes any less annoying. Size 7 class A shields with 4 class A boosters shouldn't vanish on a corvette in less than a few seconds even while hitting my shield cell banks and heat synks while flight assist off piloting the tiny ship back into my view, but even so i can handle that. killed each and every elite anaconda, python, or fer de lance who interdicts me. the problem is that they interdict me every time i use my FSD. fsd from super cruise into real space? NPC drops in to attack me. FSD from real space into super cruise? NPC says "There's the one with the big bounty!" oh my 6,000 credit bounty i got 2 days before the patch released, It's ruining my playing experience. If i FSD to another system NPC's are there waiting on me. Seems they got as much use out of a kill warrant scanner as i do, none. the only difference, i don't proclaim every clean ship i see appear to have a bounty, even though they likely do somewhere, interdict, and try killing them. that's a level of retardation you shouldn't expect from an elite ship that's buddies with all the engineers apparently.

Also to all the elitists playing out there who says things like "your ship's not upgraded right" or "you shouldn't fight them sometimes you gotta run." you're right and you're wrong. your right as in, some people just don't pay attention to those things. thinking the best class A load out on everything is the best option, or that they could take that wing of 3 sidewinders in their big bad ship now. Here is where you're wrong though. If the game forces you to upgrade your ship majorally for combat just to survive, than cargo or exploration ships get the shaft. you can't push your ship with smart load outs, you're forced to spend weeks gathering things for engineers to go roll dice a thousand times to turn an exploration ship turned combat ship back into an exploration ship, sure this is a new feature the developer worked hard on, and many of us appreciate, but not all of us want to do that, and shouldn't be forced into it just because it's new, just like how we weren't forced into powerplay. As for the running. i'm afraid if you have a bounty of any kind you simply can't. unless your favorite part of this game is being interdicted and attacked 6 times on your way to any station, and that's all you want to do for a week, because that's all you'll get. Running isn't an option from NPC's who chase you down again within the same system, and jumping to another system isn't much an option, other NPC's are there waiting, not to mention your destination is in the system you jumped from. I'm assuming that the system's status is a big part of it. maybe there's somewhere i could go to be safe, but the inability to travel very far means i'm not likely gonna waste my time looking right now.

This npc thing has turned into a controversy it really shouldn't have. seems to me the developers best bet would be to compromise. seeing as we all have different gaming styles, all have different skill levels, all paid the same price to play this game, and all of us want to continue playing and enjoying it. instead of shouting pointless insults at people complaining because they don't have your ship and loadout to deal with the combat aspect, and they just want to relax and trade or explore, try getting to the bottom of what they think would make the game better 'BESIDES' nerfing the NPC's a 3'rd time. Personally? Dialing back the bounty hunters and pirates a bit would solve most everyone's problems. they don't need to be super vigilant and just know where you are, what you got, what you're worth to them, before even interdicting you to use their appropriate scanners. if you're playing a smuggler, trader, or oh dear god i feel sorry for you pirate, you're not gonna have much fun in this game anymore. The majority of the world plays games to escape the bombardment of in their lives, not to add to their problems.

My bounty will be gone somewhere around.. 7pm today. Sucks my 3 day weekend was spent not playing the game i wanted to play.

 

[Lord Rog]

I've been thinking about the AI difficulty increases in 2.1 and how they compare to real world examples. In real life, a fighter pilot is usually accorded ace status after 5 kills. The Red Baron, the most famous fighter pilot of WW1, only had 80 overall kills during a 3 year career which ended when he was shot down over enemy lines (which actually resulted in his death, whereas we get to use the rebuy option).


My wingman is primarily a background sim player and so we are often in a haz-res or combat zone trying to support one of the local factions. There are plenty of occassions when we have been sat there, in an FDL and a FAS, taking on everything the AI can throw at us with impunity. This is not because either of us are particuarly awesome combat pilots, but because the AI did not really offer enough of a challenge. In real life a soldier (and his accomplice) could not even survive confronting an enemy battalion on their own, much less defeat an entire army or overthrow a government. In this game it has been too easy to take on all comers (in PVE) until now. Going forward, a player will need to pick their fights a lot more carefully and always have an escape plan in mind.


Also, in the real world, cargo ships would be likely to employ defensive measures of some kind (such as the Atlantic convoys used by UK & USA in WW2). In game this would probably translate as outfitting your shi[ appropriately (i.e. no more running without shields) and considering flying with a wingman to run interferance while you jump away.


So it seems that, when using real life comparisons, the game has arguably been far too easy up until now (even ignoring rebuy and certain other game mechanics). The ships that CMDRs fly are not supposed to be ubertanks which can take on all comers, leave that to the Imperial Interdictors and Federal Battlecruisers, to suceed in this game knowing when to disengage is now essential. Players can no longer assume that you they be able to fight through a combat encounter until the enemy are all destroyed, even if they are currently winning an enemy Corvette may drop in to turn the tide. So most encounters will end with CMDRs disengaging and going to get repairs.


It also means that, even when playing in open, the primary threat is no longer from CMDRs (who may or may not be skilled pilots) but from the AI itself. In fact, CMDRs who are disinclined to enter combat may now be better advised to actually play in open as they will probably be able to find other players to protect them from the NPCs.


The galaxy certainly feels like a lot more interesting place since this update landed and, for the first time, this game actually feels dangerous.

 

[Smaste]

The galaxy certainly feels like a lot more interesting place since this update landed and, for the first time, this game actually feels dangerous.

[video=youtube;WnXsQjePYGs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=WnXsQjePYGs[/video]

 

[Boomer Kay]

Vid

Are you collecting bug videos or "worst loadouts ever" Videos?
Well, this one wins in both categories.

 

[Smaste]

Are you collecting bug videos or "worst loadouts ever" Videos?
Well, this one wins in both categories.

[video=youtube;RKMNPQ35OUc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKMNPQ35OUc[/video]

 

[Arexac]

Sure, The AI is "Greeeaaatt" ,

No they arent supposed to be but they are because they are cheated. Here some examples.

- Normally , you normal Commander need to do the propered things to upgrade your equipments at the Engineers , they dont. (Programmed to Cheat)

- They have given engineer equipments that have no flaws. When you upgrade equipments you have Possitive Effects and Negative Effects. (Programmed to Cheat)

- The Negative Effects like Plasma Cannons (not the one that OP Blaster Plasma Repeater), to increase plasma cannon fire rate, you have to sacrifice heat , so if you check these NPCs at HAZ Res / CZ etc etc... they keep firing plasma cannons over and over without heating, they are not using Heat Sinks because you cant see and Heat Sink vent. (Programmed to Cheat)

- They are super agile, super fast right? They are because all have level 5 upgrades without flaws. To increase agility you need to sacrifice max speed and increased mass, to increase the speed , you need to sacrifice agility and increased mass. So they have none of these (Programmed to Cheat)

- They have infinite chaff, you dont. Some ED Development lover Commanders can scream "No they havent" , realy, then how come and Eagle made 50+ Chaff in one combat, 50 fraking times, how many Utility Slots does the Eagle have? wait for it................... ".....................1......................." so it cant spawn 50+ chaff if it isnt infinite.

Lets not make it longer, short version " The ED Developers sit and thought , Commanders are beating the NPC to easly, lets boost the NPC abilities, unlimited ammo, super shields and equipment, now we'll see how they beat them" , dont worry we can beat every NPC in this game in even grounds. So if you are going to boost them up then do it properly,or i will want that Flawless Engineer Upgrades and %100 Success Wheel of Fortune Upgrade Dice.

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

I have readed your posts carefully, dont worry, but i cant help you here, it could be offtop. Maybe you should just develop game skill a bit more, use power management, change your build. Its not a game fault - you are just doing something wrong.
Show me on PM your build, write how you are flying, how you managing power, i can try develop a solution and give You some advices. I have no problem at all with escaping from NPC and striking back them, so i think i can help you with that

sorry i have to disagree again. you should not be mobbed by interdictions when you have no cargo or missions - pirates want a profit. nor if not wanted or in powerplay - what bounty hunter wants to GET wanted from killing a clean player? what pledged npc would want to target a non pledged player for no reason? anacondas or pythons should not be being multiple interdicted and attacked on leaving stations or travelling to and through systems simply for being the ship type they are. especially not in high security areas and its happening in those too. if it happens in med security and the police jump in part way through thats logical but it should be rare as hens teeth to happen in high security and the cops should be there in 10 seconds and all over them like a cloud of acid. some players are constantly interdicted making gameplay next to impossible. something is wrong there and will be adjusted i hope. its not been a week since the update. thats my hope.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKMNPQ35OUc

epic

 

[Madriax]

I'm on my way back from a long exploration trip and, quite frankly, I'm dreading the last 500 ly in a lightly shielded, un-weaponised, built-for-jump-range Asp Explorer.

It's not just the possibility that AI now scales with your combat rank (I am Master 95%) , but that players who are simply travelling from A to B with no cargo in their holds are being interdicted and obliterated, whereas in 2.0 they were pretty much left alone.

And traders, even when they drop cargo to pirates as it is cheaper than insurance costs, are still being killed by them regardless.

IMO, the biggest overall impact is actually the player's bank balance. The constant insurance payouts are depleting CR reserves of players so quickly that any strategy to get the CR back in - bounty hunting, missions, trading, exploring etc - are so negatively impacted by psycho NPCs (whether by design or bugs) that player's are finding it difficult to continue playing - not because they don't want a good fight, but that they simply can't afford it.

How are players supposed to rebuild their CR balance when the NPCs are so over-zealous and destructive that players have little or no chance to bring in the CR to upgrade their ships or buy new ones for a better chance of survival? It may be ok if you have a few billion CR in the bank, you may be able to absorb the cost. But for those with only a few million CR (new players and casuals etc), the impact is severe and disproportionate.

I hope whatever "fix" is in the pipeline comes quickly otherwise FD will see players leaving in disgust.

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

...


It also means that, even when playing in open, the primary threat is no longer from CMDRs (who may or may not be skilled pilots) but from the AI itself. In fact, CMDRs who are disinclined to enter combat may now be better advised to actually play in open as they will probably be able to find other players to protect them from the NPCs.


The galaxy certainly feels like a lot more interesting place since this update landed and, for the first time, this game actually feels dangerous.

advice is go to gank land open where the pker players will grief you and wing up with someone you may or may not be able to trust. im solo. i played solo to AVOID being ganked as they call it for no reason. i see no reason now the npcs can do it to go to open where i have twice the choice of who to have my enjoyment ruined by for no reason and with no recourse. solo - npc griefers. open - npc griefers + player griefers.

some people claim the autopcs and machinerails are mods not bugs. result. im not playing until thats clarified, and fixed if a bug, and npc mods and level generation and interdiction frequency are looked at. note how i did not mention AI in that list.

 

[Boomer Kay]

some players are constantly interdicted making gameplay next to impossible.

Well, at least they claim they are and every post is getting less credible so far.

I've seen some videos of obvious bugs, questionable bugs and useless loadouts.
I've postet screenshots of 6mio/30min with 0 repair and 0 rebuy increase as well as top 25% in bounty CG.
I've yet to see any hint at the omnipresence of those bugs.
Please post your loadouts and rebuy screens, lest be considered trolling.

 

[Kyokushin]

sorry i have to disagree again. you should not be mobbed by interdictions when you have no cargo or missions - pirates want a profit. nor if not wanted or in powerplay - what bounty hunter wants to GET wanted from killing a clean player? what pledged npc would want to target a non pledged player for no reason? anacondas or pythons should not be being multiple interdicted and attacked on leaving stations or travelling to and through systems simply for being the ship type they are. especially not in high security areas and its happening in those too. if it happens in med security and the police jump in part way through thats logical but it should be rare as hens teeth to happen in high security and the cops should be there in 10 seconds and all over them like a cloud of acid. some players are constantly interdicted making gameplay next to impossible. something is wrong there and will be adjusted i hope. its not been a week since the update. thats my hope.

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epic

In high security police should defend You, and high-sec should be safe.

There are psychos in the world, so they can interdict you in a space as on the street someone could be a psycho and can shoot you. Of course in real world police should shoot him, and it also should work that way in-game, but in game this police should defend you before your destruction.
However, as in the real life, the bullet is faster than a police, so it is good to have a gun (in US people can), or fast legs In-game you can simply run. High wake or fast ship.

The ships are dropping a loot now. This could not be cargo. They are dropping engineers stuff... so NPC hunters may hunt for a loot what you can drop after destruction, so it seems legit.
I am also hunting for cargo-less ships to get a loot for enginers.

 

[candido123]

greetings boys and girls:
My English language in very low
I think it has become clear that commanders know configure their ships. With more or less success. I think that all these tips configurations are no longer important.
It is more important to talk and to see Frontier something happens to IA that incterceptan you and kill you in less than 9 seconds, in my case sometimes three Imperial Cliper in wing, and less than 5 seconds to be off.
Personally writing giving advice that your ship must be configured in one way or another; They have not understood something about those ships, with AI and very high weapons.
This makes people who have a little time for fun do not, thinking of being intercepted and destroyed very quickly.
It is for me very important problems in AI HORIZON 2.1.

 

[Noddie]

I'm on my way back from a long exploration trip and, quite frankly, I'm dreading the last 500 ly in a lightly shielded, un-weaponised, built-for-jump-range Asp Explorer.

It's not just the possibility that AI now scales with your combat rank (I am Master 95%) , but that players who are simply travelling from A to B with no cargo in their holds are being interdicted and obliterated, whereas in 2.0 they were pretty much left alone.

And traders, even when they drop cargo to pirates as it is cheaper than insurance costs, are still being killed by them regardless.

IMO, the biggest overall impact is actually the player's bank balance. The constant insurance payouts are depleting CR reserves of players so quickly that any strategy to get the CR back in - bounty hunting, missions, trading, exploring etc - are so negatively impacted by psycho NPCs (whether by design or bugs) that player's are finding it difficult to continue playing - not because they don't want a good fight, but that they simply can't afford it.

How are players supposed to rebuild their CR balance when the NPCs are so over-zealous and destructive that players have little or no chance to bring in the CR to upgrade their ships or buy new ones for a better chance of survival? It may be ok if you have a few billion CR in the bank, you may be able to absorb the cost. But for those with only a few million CR (new players and casuals etc), the impact is severe and disproportionate.

I hope whatever "fix" is in the pipeline comes quickly otherwise FD will see players leaving in disgust.

Always keep your fsd locked onto the next system. High wake at the first sign of trouble. Don't let your fuel run so low before refuelling that you can't jump out. Simple.

Btw. Your chances of being interdicted are linked to your criminal status, not your combat rank.

What interdicted you, though, is related to your combat rank.

 

[TT_GreyWolf]

Again :

There is at them moment no way to play the game when you're not intrested in simply killing in Secured area. You can run away? How with an Cargoship from a squad of 3 or 4 small fighters with a max of 400m/s? Did you have Trasvarp engines or what else?

 

[Retu81]

Again :

There is at them moment no way to play the game when you're not intrested in simply killing in Secured area. You can run away? How with an Cargoship from a squad of 3 or 4 small fighters with a max of 400m/s? Did you have Trasvarp engines or what else?

No, but I do have an FSD.

 

[Bzek]

I am actually quite impressed and happy with the combat ability of the AI now. My problem with the current state of the game is having too many NPCs with Engineered upgrades and the bug that makes them shoot PAs and Rails super fast.

Even without the bug, I think the AI is scary enough to really negate any need for it to be often tricked out with engineered upgrades. Let that be the edge the player has on the NPCs, or make it present on NPCs only on high ranks and very, very rarely.

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

Yes it is. Have a 70% success rate since 2.1 dropped. In a Python. Didn't bother much b4 bc even in my trade config ( no scbs ) I could kill almost anything b4 2.1 - now its different so I do evade. Flakey internet connection can make it difficult though (hence the insta evasions and interdictions and discrepancy between where you point and where the game thinks you are pointing - or between where you think the vector is and where it is).
Happens to me ( maybe 1 in 20 times ). But avoiding interdictions works most of the time.

missing the point. how do you evade an interdiction that ends with a random you escaped/you tumbling around having failed to escape in less than a second? i have had the first. it was over and i was in supercruise wondering what the hell happened because there was no npc behind me in the first place. i dont want to know about the second case option. for whatever reason its not always an option is what i was saying is all.

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No, but I do have an FSD.

not if every time your hit it goes flashing OFFLINE you dont.

 

[Boomer Kay]

how do you evade an interdiction

If you want to play it safe, you park your ship's rear against the sun then go drink a coffee.
If there's any NPCs left after you're back, you high-wake out to reset the instance.
Rinse and repeat until every possible hostile ship has been cleared.

 

[Madriax]

Always keep your fsd locked onto the next system. High wake at the first sign of trouble. Don't let your fuel run so low before refuelling that you can't jump out. Simple.

Btw. Your chances of being interdicted are linked to your criminal status, not your combat rank.

What interdicted you, though, is related to your combat rank.

Thanks for the advice and feedback.

 

[Retu81]

missing the point. how do you evade an interdiction that ends with a random you escaped/you tumbling around having failed to escape in less than a second? i have had the first. it was over and i was in supercruise wondering what the hell happened because there was no npc behind me in the first place. i dont want to know about the second case option. for whatever reason its not always an option is what i was saying is all.

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not if every time your hit it goes flashing OFFLINE you dont.

But it doesn't do that every time. And in any case, no tactic is infallible. Sometimes you're screwed no matter what you do. That's how it goes.