The Star Citizen Thread v 4

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Mostly - other space games don't insist they have a flight model so real it's perceived as being a complete mess that a physics undergraduate would be embarrassed to admit to coding.

I'm sorry. Writing flight engines is hard. Taking physics and making it appear to work in a video game is hard. It's not an easy job and everyone who attempts it has my admiration.
 
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You're not going to accept any number of "details." It's a difference of opinion, and you're welcome to it! Just don't be surprised when almost no one agrees. Look at the number of people playing Star Citizen: it's abysmal. A million backers are claimed, why aren't they having fun with this amazing flight model?

Why are free fly weeks so poorly received? If the gameplay wasn't so horribly broken, why aren't the masses responding to this tantalizing glimpse of Mr. Roberts' Full Vision(TM) and flooding the servers?

There are $2 games on steam made by some Russian pre-teen in his mums living room that have the same level of quality as Star Citizens current iteration. That wasn't even hyperbole.
 
Not pulling off the band aid and going to virtual joystick was a mistake. That they can't even deliver a competent dogfighting component with good joystick and VR support as promised is pathetic. That's the benchmark, the bare minimum needed in my book to be worth the $. That they can't deliver on the core experience almost HALF... A... DECADE in should be more than alarming, it should be hilarious.

In CR's Big Book of Half-Baked Project Management, when is the core gameplay supposed to be nailed down? Year nine? Fourteen?
 
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You're not going to accept any number of "details." It's a difference of opinion, and you're welcome to it! Just don't be surprised when almost no one agrees. Look at the number of people playing Star Citizen: it's abysmal. A million backers are claimed, why aren't they having fun with this amazing flight model?

Why are free fly weeks so poorly received? If the gameplay wasn't so horribly stunted and seemingly doomed, why aren't the masses responding to this tantalizing glimpse of Mr. Roberts' Full Vision(TM) and flooding the servers?

It's really quite funny.

You responded to my asking for people's position on why they dislike the flight model with a general rant about Star Citizen.

I asked why you're so upset about Star Citizen and you told me to stay on topic.

So I ask for details on why you dislike the flight model, and you tell me I wouldn't understand because I have a difference of opinion, and then go into a general rant about Star Citizen.

So, do you have anything actually useful to say, or are you just here to trash-talk?

EDIT - Judging by your post history, it looks like it's just the latter. What a shame.

There are $2 games on steam made by some Russian pre-teen in his mums living room that have the same level of quality as Star Citizens current iteration. That wasn't even hyperbole.

Sounds relevant to my interests. I've got $2, what games are we talking about here?
 
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So, do you have anything actually useful to say, So, do you have anything actually useful to say, or are you just here to trash-talk?

I'm here to have fun watching the continuing development of Star Citizen with friends I play Elite with and various acquaintances whilst a revolving cast of guest stars make walk on appearances and try to act like moderators based on their own sadly misplaced priorities and diligent digestion of marketing materials. I'm here to post interesting links, react to news articles, and to laugh at the latest lunacy... and certainly don't seek, need, or would care to apply for a chance at getting your approval or permission, thanks.

It's easier to attack me and sneer than address anything I bring up about the game, of course. Hundreds of valid complaints about the flight model and controller situation on RSI's own forums, but lets ignore that and blame me.

Back to Star Citizen!

Physics! Immersion! CALIX'S HAT.

Hey, remember when we were all excited they had some guy that did Iron Man movie HUDs? Boy, that worked out great for the game, didn't it. Half a decade in, still no useable, clutter free interface. "It's alpha." Oh, probably should sort it out NOW, then.
 
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I'm here to have fun watching the continuing development of Star Citizen with friends I play Elite with and various acquaintances whilst a revolving cast of guest stars make walk on appearances and try to act like moderators based on their own sadly misplaced priorities and diligent digestion of marketing materials. I'm here to post interesting links, react to news articles, laugh at the latest lunacy, and certainly don't seek, need, or would care to apply for a chance at getting your approval or permission, thanks.

Ah! A Concern Troller! I appreciate the context.

With that, I'm sorry to end your entertainment for the evening, but I've got work in the morning. Ciao!
 
Ah! A Concern Troller! I appreciate the context.

Thanks for the personal attack and baiting, but no - just a concerned backer refused a refund who bought in back when CR was sitting with Palmer Luckey at SXSW and promising a VR game. His continued lies and nonsense on that front had me desperate for my money back but I guess I missed the window. I just hope more people think about it first and study Roberts' record (like I didn't do back then, blinded by 90s nostalgia!) before giving him money here on in.

Funding seems to be slowing down and all the grumbling amidst the backers might make it tougher to keep this gravy train rolling...
 
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Not pulling off the band aid and going to virtual joystick was a mistake. That they can't even deliver a competent dogfighting component with good joystick and VR support as promised is pathetic. That's the benchmark, the bare minimum needed in my book to be worth the $. That they can't deliver on the core experience almost HALF... A... DECADE in should be more than alarming, it should be hilarious.

In CR's Big Book of Half-Baked Project Management, when is the core gameplay supposed to be nailed down? Year nine? Fourteen?

Whats this virtual joystick bizzo?

Probably why my X52 feels like someone has run it through the washing machine...
 
Eh, I'm not here to sell the game. The idea is you have a small capital ship as your home, you wander around, talk to people, build relationships etc, then when a fight happens you have multiple ways to participate. Perhaps you jump in your fighter, or maybe they'd rather have you on a boarding ship.

Really, it's just a next-generation Wing-Commander with FPS options. The Morrow Tour is about the only real sneak-peek we've gotten that's in-engine.

I'll leave it at that. People in this thread are looking for a "Cultist" to tie to a stake, and I'm not looking for any of that.

Sorry this is from what 40 pages or so ago, but that is less than a day ago.... so...

Anyway I don't think it was a find the Cultist question

I remember being part of the discussion some time earlier, on how open SQN42 was
Max posited it would be a quite open world game, where you would travel about to find your missions.
I was expecting a more linear approach, within a semi open world, as you are a newly minted Military pilot, who presumably cannot just go off book that much, you would have your orders but how you went about achieve your mission would have some flexibility and the choices made would have consequences down the line.

So it was a question of how curated you would be in the open world, and I was hoping we could avoid the Witcher, Skyrim or Mass Effect situation where you have an Urgent mission that is happy to wait which you go off to do other things, taking as much time as you like as the bad guys only move to step two when you trigger them by completing a story mission.
 
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Ask your fellow Smarties. Lots of sockpuppets. Maybe they took all of them.

the thread on sa is full of gem posts such as this wonderful post about the current state of star citizen. here was a recent one.


CLOUD IMPERIUM CAN'T COMPETE


CIG can't compete with the AAA Space Games they know about -- and the certainly can't compete with the ones they don't know about. They are a floundering, disorganized studio -- the Ad Hoc-iest game studio in recent memory -- and they've betrayed this very fact repeatedly without intending to in the very shows meant to boost backer confidence in the project.


Over the last month or so, I have been astonished to see how many new faces have appeared on "Around the Verse". This most recent episode features an employee in LA who was on his very first day of work. His very first day.


I don't mean by mentioning him to impugn his talent or question his worth. He might be a great hire-- as might be all the new hires. But CIG is a Gaming Studio whose revolving door spins like a top -- so many leaving, so many coming in. It might take 3-6 months before a new hire reaches something approximating productivity. Yet CIG is not a well-tuned engine made faster or more efficient once new employees learn the ropes, it is a bucket brigade. Some fight fires, others try to keep the thing afloat.


Rockstar, Bethesda, Infinity Ward, Bioware-- these are machines. Work doesn't grind to a halt because some guy broke his arm, or because they lose a key employee, or because they can't fill a position. They may occasionally push a release date back three months, they may occasionally even lose a badass. But deadlines matter to them because they make their money AFTER release, not before.


And the most successful of them hardly lose employees at all. Bethesda Softworks has 100 employees. Some have worked together 5,10 even 20 years. Todd Howard touched on the mysterious shorthand that emerges between people who've worked together closely for that long in a recent speech at DICE. There are synergies CIG can't even dream of once a studio achieves that level of cohesion. It took 100 people 4 years to put out Fallout 4-- and they made nearly $1B in 24 hours upon release. CIG can't compete against such studios because they can't compete like them.


"YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT GAME DEVELOPMENT!"


"Why, it's just the way the Games Industry works!", the backers always retort, as some did when Mark Skelton's surprise departure was announced only days ago. "You know nothing about Game Development if you don't know that!"


Alas, would that that were true. Would that it all were true! Than the steady flow of CIG arrivals and departures was a sign of the relative health of the company; a sign of good things to come for Star Citizen and Squadron 42.


Yet the perpetual turnover and ad hoc development habits of Cloud Imperium Games are not typical of every studio.


Nor are logjams where two years of motion capture animations pile up undeployed because there's no Technical Animator on-hand to port them into the game.


Nor is starting a new year without a development roadmap for the year ahead, necessitating ad hoc spitballing sessions between management power players spread across the globe.


Nor is prioritizing the addition of in-game Spacedoll clothes shopping when your tutorial is broken, your flight model ludicrous, and your FPS so bad you can put a clip full of bullets in an opponents head, only to watch him strike a T Pose and hover away.


THIS IS WHAT FLOUNDERING LOOKS LIKE


It explains quite neatly why Star Citizen remains in an unstable Alpha state, 4.5 years in, with less than 10% of its promised content and features available for players. A company like CIG does not have time to anticipate and then respond to their competitive threats because...


...Their Developers are too busy lining up all of Chris Roberts promised game features and deciding which ones to shoot in the head...


...Their QA teams are documenting bugs squashed months ago somehow resurrected with new patches...


...Their Customer Support folks are busy sending canned "too bad, so sad" replies to people asking for refunds...


... Their Community Team is too busy putting out weekly tv shows about Wing Commander arcana while denying viewers answers about delivery dates for content...


... Their Visionary Leader is too busy shooting even more footage for a long overdue single player game unlikely to ever recoup its development budget...


...and their Marketing Team, such as it is, continues to pursue her Hollywood dream while not even bothering to stay abreast of basic game developments like Evocati testing...


How can they respond to threats from without when fighting threats from within is a fulltime job?



I know this was true for the last few years, when Chris Roberts thought the Space Game race market would be fought over between him and his Frenemy of old, David Braben.


But 2016 has been a wake up call. and from what I can tell, yesteryear's sense of Manifest Destiny is beginning to crumble in the senior leadership. It is one thing to make offhand claims about developing a shooter on par with Call of Duty when you're primary competition is a space game that hasn't yet added space legs. It is quite another when the latest "Call of Duty" game is set in space and includes space dogfighting missions and Zero G combat.


[timg]http://i.giphy.com/13oODBXndvZMYg.gif[/timg]


"I sense a disturbance in The Farce..."



Except they may not have anything super impressive to show. They unfortunately now live in a world where the Admiral Bishop speech will be compared with Infinite Warfare cutscenes. It's going to be really hard to compete against that kind of polish, especially when Infinity Ward specifically prioritized improving the CoD storytelling elements and brought in some of the creatives behind "The Last of Us" and "Uncharted 4" to do just that.


Chris Roberts told us that AAA studios make creatively compromised games and subordinate creative visionaries to beancounter concerns. And in 3 years time, one of the biggest AAA franchises in gaming history has cooked up a Dogfighting and FPS movie game that Squadron 42 must now prove superior to, lest Chris' narrative be repudiated. I'm going out on a limb here, but I kinda think he's parped on that front...


Hey, I agree with this.


When I originally predicted a possible Hamill appearance, it was as much about reinforcing backer confidence during an event that's likely to erode it.


A Hamill appearance gets Chris a warmer crowd than he might otherwise enjoy, and that's going to come across better on the livestream, but Hamill can't use the Force and make new people buy this game when a lot of other E3 signals might be saying, "This aren't the games you're looking for. Move along. Move along." I think we might see a bump in sales, but only that.


The bigger problem coming out of E3 is one I've harped for awhile.



These narratives are too ironic not to tempt a journalist or two, and Mark Hamill's presence makes the connection so obvious even a Gaming Journalist might figure it out.


If I were Chris, I'd be very, very worried about this. If he employed real Marketing and Brand expertise, they'd have warned of this very risk a long time ago, and they'd have made course corrections to reduce the risk. But he doesn't, and they didn't, and now we're here.

END POST

this was posted by GORF. A great poster who provides great analytical commentary about star citizen. Is the thread hostile to sc, then yes, but that's because cig just keep messing up and failing. Sure there is irrelevant things that don't apply but the general feeling is that this game is on a rocky path and will probably not be released as they promised.
 
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Well...uhm...ok

Put a fork in this thread...

Someone poke me when we can see progress on SQ42...even an in-game trailer would be enough

This is just...wow
 
Wow, that COD infinite war looks a lot like what CR wants SQ42 to be... And it's coming out in November this year. Looks good actually. I may have to check it out. So many games so little time.
 
But deadlines matter to them because they make their money AFTER release, not before.

I fear this may really be the root cause for all the delays and the sorry state of 2.4
At the end of the day, neither the choice of technology nor the people are the cause for all this, but this simple fact. CIG is making money right now. One could even argue that the longer development takes, the longer they can ride that particular pony. Just for a few more meters, then another few.

Competently-made FPS with spaceships would've been unique in 2014, but now so many others have stepped into the ring. Teams and Companies that dwarf anything CR has ever achieved by orders of magnitude. He had the advantage of being early in an untapped market. Now he's already too late.

I fear ED might be late to the FPS party as well. The salvation could be an unsuspected level of polish and quality with their first person endeavours. Failing that, they still have a rock solid space flight foundation, so even just a passable FPS implementation could be sufficient to sustain the game for several more years.


I don't get the evangelists for SC. I really don't. You have no game to root for yet. Have you tried "Pulsar: Lost Colony"? Two brothers made that in unity engine and even though their space combat is extremely simplistic, overall it has way more depth and already surpasses SC in terms of ship systems interactions and all the stuff you can do in the game.

CIG needs to release a polished mini-PU as soon as possible, and start delivering a proper full PU before winter 2016. (Oh and I don't give a damn about SQ42. Chris Roberts, you are not a teller of great stories, thank you very much)
 
So many games so little time.

Even after decades of gaming it's really baffling to me how many amazing games we currently have the chance to play.
All this, at a time when we apparently needed saving from all those bad publisher games and evil console ports ;)
I think, as gamers, we should be very grateful.

Just for the record in the last few days I've been dabbling in:

Duskers
Overwatch (with some ex TF2 buddies)
ED engineers patch (yes I still play it)
Caves of Qud
Hyper Light Drifter
 
I don't get why some can't stand others to mock, criticize the game, a fortiori in a remote forum of another spacesim game.

SC fans could (and surely are) mock ED in RSI forums, or they could even burn dozens of DBOBE bobbleheads, I won't give a pretty flock. And in the same time I'll never go to RSI forums to "defend" ED there.
 
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