Engineers No Station Storage + Engineers = BAD/"Un-Fun" Focus on Ship Cargo Space

Vasious

Vasious
ammonitida said:
Can you sell the items?
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You can, but then, you do a mission get a reward you need for crafting, but don't have all the parts you need now, so will have to do other missions or look for them, then either the cargo space is taken up and you can complete no further mission if you have no space for mission rewards, or you sell it only to have to re-obtain it later.

At the moment it is like needing three handfuls of stuff and you can only carry too and if you put something down it is gone

Cargo for crafting that is mission reward only comes in lots of 4 only, so having to sell it off just to make room for the next competent seems very zero sum.

As I posted in a different thread on this

Yes I find that issue to
Even if you fit a cargo hold, it needs to hold 4 tons as that is what the missions award, and you cannot opt to receive less, so it is either 4 tons or you cannot complete the mission. You have to be able to accept the full quantity before you can sell them off to make room.
Comes especially an Issue for the smaller ships as they cannot afford to have an SRV (to get materials and data packets) and 4 tons without going Sans shields , or other equipment that one would want on-board.

And yes which there is no cost to refitting ships, as soon as you mod something you cannot remove it to replace it with the space and tools needed for the next mod

It is odd that mission need to force you to accept the cargo rewards, as it prevent the SRV Sidewinder starting ship option from completing those missions, however you are allow to accept them and no warning or explanation is given as to why you cannot turn in the mission, when you lack the cargo to accept the payment/reward.

Storage of commodities, even if the mission only ones, or paying the Engineers in advance for something, I see the light now.

I know it is on the cards, but it is nothing something I have seen the need for now, and wonder is it just module storage they mean was coming or cargo storage as well.
It was a no go for market speculation before IIRC but now we have a more practical need to have a stockpile of Commodities for Engineers

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Titan1978 said:
i think its time FD came out with a "WE'RE RELEASING STORAGE SOON" annoucement before the storage threads outnumber all others! :D
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The question is, it is Module Storage, Materials Stroage, Commodities storage, or a combination of all htree.

They have been against Commodoites storage for market speculation reasons, but not some Blueprints require commodoites that can only be obtained by missions, so we need to be able to store those.
 
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Rankaze

Rankaze
Another thing - it's not just the "poor internals" thing that massively penalizes combat ships here.

Many of the better combat ships in the game (Eagle, Imperial Eagle, Viper, Imperial Courier, Fer-de-Lance to name a few) are extremely mass-sensitive (and even more so for the first four ships in that group since the Enhanced Performance Thrusters make them even MORE mass-sensitive!). Having to haul around cargo you got from missions in case you might happen to need it substantially hurts the performance of those ships, especially at the smaller end of that spectrum.

So congratulations, not only have you had to sacrifice a module to gain a cargo rack you don't want, but the cargo in that rack is hurting your speed and manueverability!

And you can't put that cargo anywhere, you either keep carrying it and accept the handicap of carrying extra mass on a combat ship... or you lose the cargo, which you have no real way of knowing when you might be able to get it again!
 
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Starender

Starender
Rankaze said:
Another thing - it's not just the "poor internals" thing that massively penalizes combat ships here.

Many of the better combat ships in the game (Eagle, Imperial Eagle, Viper, Imperial Courier, Fer-de-Lance to name a few) are extremely mass-sensitive (and even more so for the first four ships in that group since the Enhanced Performance Thrusters make them even MORE mass-sensitive!). Having to haul around cargo you got from missions in case you might happen to need it substantially hurts the performance of those ships, especially at the smaller end of that spectrum.

So congratulations, not only have you had to sacrifice a module to gain a cargo rack you don't want, but the cargo in that rack is hurting your speed and manueverability!

And you can't put that cargo anywhere, you either keep carrying it and accept the handicap of carrying extra mass on a combat ship... or you lose the cargo, which you have no real way of knowing when you might be able to get it again!
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That's the kind of dilemna i'm in right now, i have a 16t cargo on my FdL, and 2 collectors in 2 different internals, so basically more than half of my internals are aimed to get precious materials/cargo for engineers, but now i can't use a fuel scoop so bye bye moving around i can only go 25 Ly away, bye bye hull reinforcement, i can't even add an extra fuel tank !

it's crazy that as a 100% pure fighter i'm forced to cripple myself so much if i want to ever pimp my ride one day (without even being sure of getting a good roll)
 

Mithrawndo

M
Faded Glory said:
Just to say, you can.

As long as the ship you want to change to has enough cargo storage for what you have in your current ship, that cargo will transfer. It's new in 2.1.
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As long as the cargo isn't limpet drones. Heaven forbid you might forget to sell all your limpet drones before you park your ship; the game makes you come back out and clear your cargo hold before you can store your existing ship. Clearly either something mechanical is at play, or noone saw the consequences there.

A station-side cargo storage solution - limited numbers of rented hangars per station would be ideal, forcing competition between players and the occasional fire-sale when someone hasn't paid their rent - are the first thing that comes to mind.
 

Aewarin Jameson

Aewarin Jameson
It seem a little odd to release Engineers without the ability to store commodities.

If you go out on a session gathering materials for an upgrade (mining for example) then you're in effect locked to that activity until the upgrade has been completed. Otherwise if you want to switch things up (to alleviate boredom) and go into a combat zone you need to carry that cargo with you.

Bonkers.
 

Pirate Hell

Pirate Hell
Starender said:
it's crazy that as a 100% pure fighter i'm forced to cripple myself so much if i want to ever pimp my ride one day (without even being sure of getting a good roll)
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BUT WAIT! THERE'S MORE! NOW, in case the gravity hasn't sunk it yet, the point has been made by a previous comment, YOU CAN'T EVEN FINISH A MISSION THAT OFFERS COMMODITY REWARDS UNLESS, THAT MEANS YOU ABSOLUTELY MANDATORILY HAVE, SOME FORM OF CARGO SPACE! So it's not even an option any more to not have cargo space, or you need to avoid missions that reward with commodities / crafting material. WHAT A JOKE! So no longer can you run multiple missions with a full cargo hold you have to leave SOME of your hold open to be able to complete mission!??!?!?!?!?! SO NOW YOU CANNOT FILL YOUR HOLD FOR ANY REASON! BUT YOU HAVE TO HAVE CARGO SPACE EVEN IF YOU DON'T NEED ANY FOR CARGO RUNNING. e.g. DATA DELIVERY MISSIONS don't require storage space. But if it awards commodities or eng crafting material, and your cargo hold is full, you can't complete it!

Whom so ever overlooked this MINOR issue, better be sitting back in his parents basement sending out his resume to Best Buys stores.

And forget about FD ever even noticing this thread UNLESS you swear in which case the only thing they will do is give you a reprimand. Which you're not even allowed to TALK ABOUT!
 
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Korben Dallas

Korben Dallas
KISS

Keep It Simple Sir !


Instead of needing real cargo for the engineers upgrades, why not simply add this as a different material item. This way you would only need data and materials for engineers upgrades, which would be the same mechanic as for SRV and Ship upgrades/refuels/rearms. Engineers create mods for your items, they don't need the material to rebuild the whole thing neither.
Also the materials and the (scanning) data are saved on the player and not on the ship. You need zero cargo space to pick up materials from ships you have destroyed, such as 'refined cristals', 'shield emitters' etc...

Just removing the need for real cargo and using synthesis materials instead would make a lot more sense.

If you would then like to upgrade your Viper or your Sidewinder, then you have a 'bag of goodies' you swing over your shoulder to visit the engineer without having to transfer cargo around from the bigger ship you are doing the collecting with.

my two cents.
 
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bladebss

bladebss
Yes i say get ridd of cargo as crafting material. Make it a new type of material or something like scan data is. Cant be dealing with the cargo. Then i dont need to store cargo witch may be exploitable... and i dont have to lug the kitchen sink around every where in ever bigger ships
 

Starender

Starender
the easiest solution to this is

- Remove cargo from blueprints
- Transform any previous needed cargo for blueprints into materials.
- Remove any cargo rewards from missions.

Problem solved.
 
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tarragon

T
h347h said:
They have responded on it enough on the past. They plan on adding some type of storage soon.
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Soon without stating it will be in 2.2 means it will likely come in early 2017. Another game design fail, wholly to blame on Sandro and Braben. Elementary schoolbook stuff that makes you fail game design class in uni. In fdev however, this is the way they roll longterm.
 
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Kaybe

Kaybe
Honestly, we just need a space station storage system for cargo, materials, and ship modules. That would solve absolutely everything. I'm fairly certain that FD are aware of this as Sandro brought it up during a beta livestream, but who knows when it'll happen.
 

Korben Dallas

Korben Dallas
Kaybe said:
Honestly, we just need a space station storage system for cargo, materials, and ship modules. That would solve absolutely everything. I'm fairly certain that FD are aware of this as Sandro brought it up during a beta livestream, but who knows when it'll happen.
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If they add that, they could add the option to swap cargo/money between players docked at the same station. Something akin to the window we now use to transfer cargo between the SRV and the ship.

It would make sense to be able to do what you say but for gameplay reasons (trading, stowing unused modded weapons), not for crafting engineers mods, as I still don't see the relevance of making things complicated by using real physical cargo for them. Gameplay wise it is both confusing for new players and illogical compared to the crafting mechanics already implemented before 2.1, never mind the burden to carry them around and always needing a large cargo rack to get a significant amount of 'tries' or 'chances' to create a mod that is actually useful. The more modified stuff you have on board, the less cargo space you have on that ship.

Ok if you can store your weapons or modules you can swap them out for cargo racks again and put them in a safe place, but why create an unnecessary shuffle, when you can simplify things without losing gameplay mechanics ?



- As an added bonus, if they would add the same engineers to spacestations, (or create customized Engineer space stations) in the win32/win64 version of ED instead of only accommodating surface bases for them in Horizons, and spawn materials that could be picked up from space instead of needing the SRV, they could sell the Engineers season pass to players who do not own Horizons, and incorporate it into the base game. Another win there IMHO.
 
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bladebss

bladebss
It did cross my mind earlier.. what do they need a whole ton for? It would make sense if it was like, a ton of titanium for the main chassis of the mod and some bits and bobins welded on. But how much heat plates can one guy need
 

Korben Dallas

Korben Dallas
bladebss said:
It did cross my mind earlier.. what do they need a whole ton for? It would make sense if it was like, a ton of titanium for the main chassis of the mod and some bits and bobins welded on. But how much heat plates can one guy need
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Two words: Gameplay limitations.

They probably don't but since 1t is the minimum buyable unit, they are stuck with that, or they would need to complicate it further by using the reverse mechanic of the refinery bin. Splitting up 1t in different chunks to create more tries per ton. Ridiculous and overcomplicated.

Why dedicate time and resources to write more lines of code to create a mechanic that doesn't enhance gameplay, but turns a viable crafting mechanic which is already present into a confusing and burdened mess. As a game programmer, it must not be easy to know everything up front, certainly not with a game that has an enormous scope as ED. Thus I do understand that not all programming decisions can be correct from the first try, and that they are kinda building things as they go.

However, I do hope that FD listens and implements ideas (if they are viable) brought up by the community actually playing the game and not just hang on tight to their image of ED.

Although I like what they have done with Engineers and 2.1, things could still be streamlined.
 
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bladebss

bladebss
Well i was kinda getting at the use of materials being under a ton and that making more sense than needing such a large volume of something because.. cargo..?

From a lor point of view i see it that some focus crystals are small and it would take.. say 600 to make up one ton and thats all your personal effects compartment in your ejector seat can hold.. :)
 

Korben Dallas

Korben Dallas
bladebss said:
Well i was kinda getting at the use of materials being under a ton and that making more sense than needing such a large volume of something because.. cargo..?

From a lor point of view i see it that some focus crystals are small and it would take.. say 600 to make up one ton and thats all your personal effects compartment in your ejector seat can hold.. :)
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Another excellent reason for converting the cargo into materials, I say ! All that would be needed is for David Braben to read it and give it some serious thought.
 
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