Horizons Player Difficulty Levels now needed in Elite Dangerous

[Susanna]

Having myself lost a fair bit of cash to the now stupidity difficult NPC's that can blow you away in the time it takes to sneeze, along with having read many similar accounts posted here and elsewhere, of players being bombed back to the stone age with only their Sidewinder and a thousand credits left, perhaps it's time the Frontier Devs seriously consider introducing a game level option...
Easy for the traders, miners and explorers and beginners (who will quit playing this game before they may their first ship upgrade) who don't want to get blown away by npc's every 5 minutes i.e. those not wanting to deal with the npc's on a regular run.
Normal for experienced players who don't mind a little combat in a navigation beacon etc and can cope with the occasional interdiction by npc's.
Hard for the testosterone junkies that like the npc's to have enough teeth to be challenging.
Very Hard for the testosterone junkies that have become experienced enough to play with flight assist off and enjoy a real challenge with npc's presenting a real challenge.

Now the obvious critism to this is how this would impact upon ranking which currently prevents this kind of game level mechanics being implicated easily. Elite in Easy will not mean the same as Elite in Very hard.
Simple... Introduce more levels by expanding the current model so that say Competent in combat rank now translates to level x.
Here is an example...
Harmless... Level 1,2,3,4
Mostly Harmless... Level 5,6,7,8 (or 1,2,3,4)
Cadet... Level 9,10,11,12 (or 1,2,3,4)
Competent... Level 13,14,15,16 (or 1,2,3,4)
Master... Level 17,18,19,20 (or 1,2,3,4)

I think that is enough to illustrate the idea. The same can be applied to exploration and trade ranks.

At present an Explorer can spend months out in the black only to find that their ship is blown away as they come back to the bubble. Personally, that makes for really shi##y game play imho with months of game time wasted.

Similarly a trader can get his nice new conda blown away after spending months saving up for it.

The game is way too combat orientated for my liking. Elite was originally (so I believe) intended to be an exploration orientated game with some combat thrown in for those that enjoy that. However it seems that the boys have taken over the show and the game has become almost exclusively combat orientated. With the release of 2.1 this has now been taken to an unacceptable level imho.

Combat is now not optional, it's now imperative that you are armed to the teeth and know how to use them effectively even if you are not combat orientated in order to simply survive (and even then surviving currently looks very problematic...).

I know I'm going to get called all the sissy names in the book for this post, but frankly I don't give a wet kipper. I'm a paying customer too, and as such I should be enabled to enjoy the game as much as the testosterone junkies.

Frontier, PLEASE redress the game mechanics to enable your regular Jo players to enjoy this game to, otherwise I fear your subscriber base will suffer with the game becoming a dedicated combat orientated space sim (of which there are all ready way to many to pick from).

There are ladies playing this game to and I would like us to be considered in how the game is shaped and developed.

 

[howardtay]

I agree with every thing you say but I shouldn't worry too much, Frontier may take your suggestions on board, this has been my recent experience:-


I was looking forward to the 2.1/1.6 upgrade so much so, that I purchased the Horizons season pass at £19.00. Like everyone else I waited patiently for over 10 hours for the upgrade to complete, and then had a go.

I went straight into Horizons, and my first reaction was 'This is pretty good!' I even got 2 invites for Engineers, so I thought I would visit Felicity Farseer so off I went, got there and discovered that she requires 1T of Meta Alloys, after some research on the old internet I discovered that this commodity is as rare as unobtainium, but hey I carried on and did some normal training and missions just like I have been doing for over 6 months, then it began, blown out of the sky while trying to run, killed within 3 to 4 seconds, I thought OK must have been a bug, lost 12 million credits (rebuy for my Python) and cargo, did a few more missions and then it happened again same problem, so I closed it down, thinking if I carried on I would eventually be totally broke and unable to play this game anymore, I prefer to wait for Frontier to sort these problems out before continuing, so I emailed Frontier for a refund for Horizons.

They replied within 2 days and gave me the refund, they said that they were aware of the problems and wished me well, this is the email:-


I'm sorry to hear that it hasn't met your expectations but I do completely understand the issues that are currently surrounding the updated NPC's. If you'd like to add your comments to the discussion, we'd be thankful for your feedback!

As you requested I've refunded your copy of Horizons to you for which you should receive a confirmation email soon.

Fly safe and true, Commander and if there is anything else we can do to assist you please let us know.

Kind regards,
CMDR Normandy
Elite Dangerous Customer Support Team

Now that's what I call service, and I will more than likely re-purchase Horizons and start playing ED again once they have sorted these problems out. So there is light at the end of the tunnel.

Well done Frontier, we at last have a games company that understands. This is a great game, I remember playing the original Elite on the BBC Model 'B' (I used to sell these back in the day) and that game was exceptional at the time even though it used wire frame graphics.

Looks like the poll is beginning to fall into the Too Hard camp, was pretty much 50/50 now the Too Hard camp is higher.

By the way it says on the left that I'm mostly harmless, I am in fact Expert now!

 

[Tikigod]

I'd suggest waiting for the rare cases of higher rated NPCs having their modification gains applied incorrectly to be addressed, and then see how things go.

At the moment every example of people claiming "The AI is too hard" seems to stem from that bug, and has little to do with actual AI itself and more from there being a bug with how certain NPC loadout performance is being handled.

Overall though, introducing different experiences and "Difficulty modes" is rather problematic looking at the bigger picture as no matter what mode you play in, everything ties into and feeds back into the same universe state.

Having two people of equal skill taking part in a faction war waging in a system but the first person having switched to "Easier mode" and able to easily throw in a solid contribution toward the outcome of the conflict, whilst the second person is playing in 'Harder mode' and having a tougher time adding the same amount of contribution, wouldn't really work... it would just breed a whole "Just fly in easy mode and exploit it for less effort for same gain", and anyone who would enjoy the increased challenge is punished by the design of the system.

Also, a massive NO to the idea of trying to translate everything into a rigid level system. Don't ever start trying to go down that route, it doesn't suit nor apply to this game in any workable format.

 

[killerofstars]

I think solo should have an adjustable difficulty level. And maybe it doesn't even need that much of one: Normal (The previous AI) Hard (The current sit on your ass no matter what you do AI.) I'm fine with open having a fixed difficulty, but solo?

 

[Robert Maynard]

There would be calls for separate galaxies for each if different difficulty levels were considered for implementation.

 

[Robert Maynard]

I think solo should have an adjustable difficulty level. And maybe it doesn't even need that much of one: Normal (The previous AI) Hard (The current sit on your ass no matter what you do AI.) I'm fine with open having a fixed difficulty, but solo?

Given that players can choose to play in each game mode as and when they choose, there would be calls to lock players to a particular mode if a difficulty selector were available in that mode.

 

[Darth Krayt]

I support this and am not playing until at least the overpowered NPCs with impossible weapons are fixed.

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Given that players can choose to play in each game mode as and when they choose, there would be calls to lock players to a particular mode if a difficulty selector were available in that mode.

That would be fine by me. I'd set the difficulty to easiest and never want to touch it again.

 

[Tikigod]

I support this and am not playing until at least the overpowered NPCs with impossible weapons are fixed.

Bugged NPC loadouts, and magic difficulty modes that change the galaxy are two entirely different things.

I think more people realising the huge difference between bugs and the need to knee jerk redesign the entire game because of bugs is important here. As currently it seems many people are completely incapable of understanding the difference.

I think solo should have an adjustable difficulty level. And maybe it doesn't even need that much of one: Normal (The previous AI) Hard (The current sit on your ass no matter what you do AI.) I'm fine with open having a fixed difficulty, but solo?

That's the thing though, solo mode actions still impact EVERYONE. It's not the magic isolated bubble that it may appear to be. Everything you do in solo feeds back into the same universe state that people in Open or group play share alongside you.

Everything anyone does feeds back into the same overall state we all share.

As soon as you start buggering about with allowing one group of players to artificially reinvent their universe to work to unique rules that changes their experience from that of players in another mode, then there's a very real need for Frontier to start supporting 3 or 4 different version of the game universe that don't interact with each other... and that's going to be seriously problematic for Frontier.

 

[Mag_55]

Well said Sussana....

 

[Rob At Work]

There is already a difficulty level built in.

The higher your combat rank the harder the NPCs become.

The problem has been that it was to easy to get high combat rankings without the required/acquired skills.

The problem now, is that people have a higher rank than their skill level and now they are complaining.

Balancing and bug sorting is required not much else IMO.

 

[Jon flint]

At the moment every example of people claiming "The AI is too hard" seems to stem from that bug, and has little to do with actual AI itself and more from there being a bug with how certain NPC loadout performance is being handled.

Think you've hit the nail on the head there. They've got a few new tricks and can manoeuvre a bit better in combat but I don't imagine most people would have much of an issue with that and it certainly wouldn't account for the amount of complaints these forums have seen.

There is definately something odd going on wih some of the modded npc weapons. This morning while mining I saw a security service anaconda take out a wanted python with a single shot from a beam laser.

None of the npcs that have attacked me while ive been trading have seemed overpowered, but maybe I've just been lucky.

 

[Darth Krayt]

There is already a difficulty level built in.

The higher your combat rank the harder the NPCs become.

Would you say it's reasonable for a player of Novice or Competent rank to be attacked by almost exclusively Deadly ranked NPCs?

 

[verminstar]

+1 for the op...for a genuine new player like meself, you guys went and ramped the difficulty up tenfold to the point where the game is nigh on unplayable now. I don't particularly appreciate the ad hominem insults about my gaming ability therefore I don't say very much but the op hit the nail squarely on the head imho ^^

 

[Susanna]

snip

That's the thing though, solo mode actions still impact EVERYONE. It's not the magic isolated bubble that it may appear to be. Everything you do in solo feeds back into the same universe state that people in Open or group play share alongside you.

Everything anyone does feeds back into the same overall state we all share.

While I accept your point that the background simulation is shared by all (regardless of rank/level etc) it can be fairly easily managed through the available missions etc that impact that simulation... Simply don't make them available in easier modes or moderate the reward to be much lower for playing in an easier level. That way, players in an easier mode can still influence the background simulation but just need to do a whole lot more in order to get the same results as someone playing at a harder game level.

Obviously there will need some further thinking, e.g. the CGs - someone handing in combat bonds will need to have their reward commensurately proportioned.

This situation has come about because Frontier have (so far) resolutely resisted to incorporate any game level selector into the game design and the longer that goes on, the harder it will be to implement. There are obviously Solo and Private group modes (which no doubt was a stop gap implemented for the PvE players, of which I consider my self a member of) however this does not address the wider issues that are now more than ever apparent with this game design. Beginners are welcomed into the fold by being interdicted in Solo mode by NPC's that out perform them on every level. The initial months of the game (I personally started playing in Jan 16 so this is still fairly fresh in my memory) where a struggle with so much to take on board. After a rocky couple of months I had worked up to a point that I could upgrade and hold my own in Solo/Private mode - or at least until 2.1 came out! BTW, I don't think I'll EVER be switching to Open mode again... Way too many players seem to enjoy just blowing you away for no apparent reason at all!

Yes, the buggy NPC's need fixing ASAP - but this will NOT resolve the deeper issues around game playing styles that currently is out of wack for many members of the ED community.

As for me, I intend to tag along with the crab nebula expedition group on the 11th June and head away from all this shi$$y game play and leave you lot to blow each other up in your little RESs and CZs and other combat orientated do-dars and while not doing that I'm going to enjoy playing No Man's Sky from the 24th June for a couple of months where I don't have to deal with all this crap.

I'm calling for a Game Rethink and if that divides the community into the testo junkies and wooly jumper mobs I don't care, Frontier should cater for all of us. ED doesn't have to be all about who has got the latest Huge Plasma Blaster and if Frontier seem Hell Bent on taking ED in that direction then sadly I'll be handing in my Pilots Licence at the next system....

oh and by the way - there are well over 20,000 signed up PvE group members. We are not a small insignificant group of the community...

 

[Rob At Work]

Would you say it's reasonable for a player of Novice or Competent rank to be attacked by almost exclusively Deadly ranked NPCs?

No I wouldn't. That's where it should be balanced/bug sorted.

But people who are Elite should face similar ranked opponents not mostly harmless NPCs.

 

[Darth Krayt]

No I wouldn't. That's where it should be balanced/bug sorted.

But people who are Elite should face similar ranked opponents not mostly harmless NPCs.

Is this what is really happening? Are Elite players actually being interdicted by mostly harmless NPCs? I've been getting interdicted by Deadly rank NPCS for quite some time, since at least 2.0 and my rank has only recently gone up to Competent.

 

[killerofstars]

Given that players can choose to play in each game mode as and when they choose, there would be calls to lock players to a particular mode if a difficulty selector were available in that mode.

Not necessarily. We've had "softer" AI for a year or two now. Setting the game to easy doesn't mean you'll be making 100mil a day. it lets people who want a greater challenge have it. Open is unsafe anyway.

 

[Earthshine]

The difficulty is that now 2.1 has hit ranks don't mean quite the same as they meant before. Elite doesn't truly mean Elite....for combat anyhow.

Perhaps FD could implement 2 things:

1. A toggle to lock combat rank progression - something like "Do/Do not transmit kills to Pilots Federation";
2. A suffix to ranks until a certain criteria is met, such as if you have a call it "provisional" (ok, not great...no-one wants a large green letter P or L on their cockpit, but I'm sure there's a better way of expressing it) Elite rank you would retain that suffix/flag until you had succeeded in beating an appropriate number of appropriately ranked opponents, whereupon the suffix/flag would be removed.

Just an idea. Probably not even original, but I'm too slow at reading the threads to keep up.

 

[MickyG1982]

I do believe there is a thread in the bug reporting section where support have admitted that certain "Machine Gun" Rail equipped NPC's are actually bug & they are looking at sorting it.

That said, there should be no difficulty levels for the game, you choose that on the mission screen where it tells you the level of mission that you are accepting & indeed warns you that this level is above your rank, take it at your own risk...

 

[verminstar]

it lets people who want a greater challenge have it.

True...it does. It also give the middle finger to anyone who doesn't. You say that like it's a choice...it is not a choice...we have it whether we like it or not. Those who want the challenge, get their challenge...those who don't either adapt or leave...so where's the choice to play the game our way?