Wrong, the potential for real hurt here is people spending thousands of dollars on a very heavily marketed game that appears to be stuck in development hell.
The Star Citizen Thread v 4
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Wrong, the potential for real hurt here is people spending thousands of dollars on a very heavily marketed game that appears to be stuck in development hell.
I did.
The SC FM is boring, it doesn't give you any challenges, you point your ship and you press fire. Mouse and keyboard are more than enough to play the game.
ED is build on pict and roll, just like real airplanes, because Elite tried a 100% true newtonian FM years ago, and its wasn't fun. Its a game after all.
If I want this kind of FM in a game I would go all the way and play RS, this is more like DCS in space, and much much more complicated than ED or SC.
The other thing I find is the whole SIM part, what is it? In ED the galaxy is pretty much simulated, however the rest is there for game reasons, so you can't really call it a SIM.
Its a Space Simulator where you can have fun, presenting you're Han Solo, or whatever you like to do. In SC even the universe is pretended, nothing there is actually for real. I can't use it as an way to teach people about space as I can do in ED. So SC in my view is a place where you are more into a space story, more guided towards the story telling then what they do in ED. I like that I really do, because that would make SC something different from ED. However if its trying to be more of the same, I already have BDSSED and I don't have time for two similar games. The free time I do have I would then rather play witcher, CoD in space, ME Andromeda or something completely different from ED.
Their money and their decision. Just because you don't like it you have no right to demand it should be teared down. A lot of people, including me want to see it happen and are happy to give CIG the time to develop the game.
I don't think anyone saw Star Citizen or anything Chris Roberts has ever done as being about space realism. If you can sit through Star Wars without worrying about scientific accuracy then I think we can accept that Roberts makes space adventures based around the type of movies which in turn are based around Saturday Matinee. When I backed SC/SQ42 I was fully expecting Top Gun mixed with Star Wars because that's his formula. Likewise (unlike many people weirdly) I didn't back ED expecting a theme park scripted space adventure or hard written branching story line because Elite had three previous titles spanning 30 years as evidence to what kind of game Braben saw Elite as.
Actually a lot of people in SC are defending E : D. on the SC forums. It is just that the thread here descended into self gratifying how much they hate SC. Also SC fans in general dislike the Smartie cultists and anyone who repeats their smear campaign against the company, fan sites and backers or even cheers them along the way is not getting any sympathy.
I completely support people who say they just like and enjoy SC's current flight model. And let's be honest, there have been significant improvements. It's a lot better than where things were when AC was first released, and that whole ESP scandal came to light.
So that's really a matter of taste. I won't claim that there's an objective way to definitely state that A is superior to B, because it depends on what you're looking for.
In my personal opinion, ED much better conveys the exhileration of sci-fi space combat for several reasons:
1) Frontier learned from their past mistakes that a 100% pure newtonean flight model with no speed restrictions and no turn variability results in jousting matches.
Yes it was possible to avoid jousting but that was HARD - and all it took was one guy to start jousting for fights to turn to an endless and boring endeavour.
2) Big ships need to turn slow to convey the feeling mass.
This is similar to the guidelines for VR development: If you want to convey mass, dampen impulse reactions.
3) Restrictions can be liberating. Complete freedom of movement is boring.
As long as said restrictions are predictable and not erratic, you can learn to adapt to them. Finding the optimal turn speed, using FA-off in ED, knowing when to boost or how flying backwards affects your top speed are all restrictions, but learning to master then add things to get good at.
Why don't I like SC's flight model? Because engaging space combat consists of systems management, maneuvering your ship, and keeping your target in your crosshairs. For me the issue with SC is that maneuvering seems pretty pointless because there's no need to. Just yaw/pitch until you have your target in front of you. No such thing in Elite. You and your opponent have a much greater turn radius along with tools such as FA-off and boost, and each affect speed, turn radius and other factors. I totally get that this is not for everyone.
If I had to put it into one sentence, I'd say that combat in ED feels a lot more involved and has a lot more things to play with. That's my personal opinion and YMMV of course. If you prefer the SC flight model, then there's no need to try to convince you otherwise. In fact I'm glad SC and ED are not doing the same thing there. Variety is the spice of life.
Up to a point you are correct, "buyer beware" is a good mantra for any purchase. However when the marketing exceeds the reality it stops being a bad consumer choice and enters other potentially problematic realms.
Look at the problems generated for the developer of Alien Colonial Marines by a single "enhanced" trailer. There is an acceptable (and legally enforced) amount of leeway given to advertising, colonial marines marketing exceeded it and they paid the price as a result.
CIG need to live up to their hype (which is record breaking), I think that's impossible for them and the repercussions could be massive.
I literally just typed that exact sentence 2 minutes ago in another forum on a completely unrelated subject.
The internet is such a small place.
Not so. I have two friends who spent large amounts of money (above 1k) on Star Citizen and they have both been denied refunds and both have basically written off the money as "lessons learned". Were they ill-advised to spend that much money? Yes. Is it all their fault? Well not really, because CIG could've delivered Star Marine and a more solid mini PU in a lot less time. CIG didn't.
Maybe because the "sc defense force" is tired of all the attacks from the "sc attacking force" sir legendary mr general Voivod.
It looks like they are trying to defense our attacks by ignoring us. But what should we do if our complains going into abyss? It is our strongest weapon general! We need a new attack plan nnooaawwww! :O We are all doomed if we cannot convert these strange sc defense force cultists.
Since no one was forced to pay with a loaded gun...
It is kickstarter stuff, dont pay money if you have a constantly changing ur mind personality. Plus sc is still developing, it is not a failed project (even if some people here want that to be).
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Insignificant_The_Galaxy_Cat
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Hold on.... Wait one cotton picking minute....
Wasn't the whole thing about Mr Skelton leaving CiG because of his daughter's recovery from a serious accident and that the demands of making Star Citizen whilst caring for her was just a bit too much?
So why is he joining another gaming developer?
Curiouser and curiouser....
No one is forced to read those forum threads with a loaded gun. You're giving quidams' personal opinions too much power if you think it could hurt SC development process.
Because if you're a professional, you don't make public statements about how your old job sucked. It's always "seeking new challenges" or "spending more time with the family".
But also, a different job may come with less need for travel or less overtime. So while you could read something into it, it would still just be you reading stuff into it
I am not happy with what CiG has delivered so far, and I'm not happy with how they changed their end of the deal. An attack would be "I hope they fail". I am sure the majority of ED players would LOVE them to release a great game. However I feel insulted when someone tells me all the bugs and clipping and falling through the floor and random deaths and missing models and bad physics and disconnects and weird graphics errors and generally terrible feeling are just my imagination, or worse, "you haven't played the game".
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According to him it was CIG requiring him to travel from Austin to LA all the time (while the original plan was finishing a game inside a studio in Austin).
To bring food on the table I guess.
Deliberate false advertising is a scam, I don't know if SC is a scam, the BDSSE in the making or somewhere in between but I'm suspicious enough not to buy in.
I think you misunderstand the potential issue I was referring to, a loaded gun would be coercion scams don't use coercion they require the willing co-operation of the mark, and sometimes their help recruiting other marks.
You know, poor america, no free health care. You need money and a job.
Should he start working at mcdonalds?
We are at WAR!
Since it is still in the developing it is hard to call it scam.
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So from all that pseudo-fantasy-pretending-to-be-humorous text you just typed, what you're basically saying is: "We're posting videos because we're tired of all the attacks?"
So instead of addressing the points, you'd rather raise the videos or attack the poster? Please continue with your valid arguments.
So a backer paying money and 4 years later, after not having the product even resembling what was promised, is at fault for "chaning his mind" ?
The developer asking for money, then changing his mind numerous times, isn't at fault?
I'm not sure if all these arguments are desperation or just scraping the barrel for excuses, but they are getting worse and worse.
EDIT: Oh and thanks for calling me a "legendary general" a "sir" and a "mr", I am honoured.
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To be perfectly clear here. If you back Star Citizen, or any other game via crowd funding. The money is gone the very moment it is spend. Whatever happens. Whether or not the project is successful or fails, the money is not coming back. Crowdfunding is not really a form of investment and anyone should know this in advance.
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Also a game development company has expenses. 300 People want to get paid and the offices and tools to develop a game are not exactly cheap. I can perfectly understand why CIG would deny refunds whenever someone has a change of heart.
The other thing is I know why Smart and Goons are always so much about initiating refunds. Think about it, they don't care about the personal welfare of disgruntled backers but have something else in mind. What they want to cause and that much is obvious by their year long smear campaign is to trigger a refund cascade. Mass refunds, project is getting more delays or sized down in scope which causes more doubts and more refund request. Why else would someone like Smart spend all of his time writing page upon page of his blog, posting constantly on Twitter, even visiting other game forums to spread his ?
The Smarties thought it would be easy but they underestimated how passionate the SC community actually is.
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Nope, it is just strange to expect normality here.
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