Horizons Player Difficulty Levels now needed in Elite Dangerous

True...it does. It also give the middle finger to anyone who doesn't. You say that like it's a choice...it is not a choice...we have it whether we like it or not. Those who want the challenge, get their challenge...those who don't either adapt or leave...so where's the choice to play the game our way?
Hear Hear! Have some rep!
 
I agree with every thing you say but I shouldn't worry too much, Frontier may take your suggestions on board, this has been my recent experience:-


I was looking forward to the 2.1/1.6 upgrade so much so, that I purchased the Horizons season pass at £19.00. Like everyone else I waited patiently for over 10 hours for the upgrade to complete, and then had a go.

I went straight into Horizons, and my first reaction was 'This is pretty good!' I even got 2 invites for Engineers, so I thought I would visit Felicity Farseer so off I went, got there and discovered that she requires 1T of Meta Alloys, after some research on the old internet I discovered that this commodity is as rare as unobtainium, but hey I carried on and did some normal training and missions just like I have been doing for over 6 months, then it began, blown out of the sky while trying to run, killed within 3 to 4 seconds, I thought OK must have been a bug, lost 12 million credits (rebuy for my Python) and cargo, did a few more missions and then it happened again same problem, so I closed it down, thinking if I carried on I would eventually be totally broke and unable to play this game anymore, I prefer to wait for Frontier to sort these problems out before continuing, so I emailed Frontier for a refund for Horizons.

They replied within 2 days and gave me the refund, they said that they were aware of the problems and wished me well, this is the email:-


I'm sorry to hear that it hasn't met your expectations but I do completely understand the issues that are currently surrounding the updated NPC's. If you'd like to add your comments to the discussion, we'd be thankful for your feedback!

As you requested I've refunded your copy of Horizons to you for which you should receive a confirmation email soon.

Fly safe and true, Commander and if there is anything else we can do to assist you please let us know.

Kind regards,
CMDR Normandy
Elite Dangerous Customer Support Team

Now that's what I call service, and I will more than likely re-purchase Horizons and start playing ED again once they have sorted these problems out. So there is light at the end of the tunnel.

Well done Frontier, we at last have a games company that understands. This is a great game, I remember playing the original Elite on the BBC Model 'B' (I used to sell these back in the day) and that game was exceptional at the time even though it used wire frame graphics.

Looks like the poll is beginning to fall into the Too Hard camp, was pretty much 50/50 now the Too Hard camp is higher.

By the way it says on the left that I'm mostly harmless, I am in fact Expert now!


Really?! Less than a week in. Two deaths and your asking for a refund? WOW...
Since 2.1 dropped, I have:

-Continued to fly my a-rated DBS to:
1-Conduct 'experimental chemical recovery missions'. Even stacked two of these at once.
2-Put over 1.1million creds into the Bounty Hunting CG at Ngolibardu
3-Evaded interdiction from many different rated NPCs, in many various ships (nothing bigger than a clipper so far)
4-Been interdicted by and then either destroyed or escaped from a number of various rated NPCs in various ships (up to & including FAS/FDS/Clippers)
5-BHunted in RESs and taken down everything up to Anacondas.

-Flown my T7 to:
1-Contribute 1400t to the current trade CG
2-Scored two (2) kills along the way.

I have yet to be destroyed....

I am not an Elite rated pilot. I am not even rated Dangerous. My current rating is 75% Expert.

It's just not that difficult. Forget your previous play style. NPCs are no longer graduates of the Anakin Skywalker flight school (spinning's a good trick).

They will fight back, they will flee, they will use tactics. Yes, there are some crazy weapon cool down / fire rate bugs to be found and squashed, but I'm sure FD are working feverishly to correct those.

Improvise. Adapt. Overcome.

I'm not hardcore. I play a few hours on the weekends and an hour or two total during the week. If I can do it....

Toffs
( '-')7
 
Really?! Less than a week in. Two deaths and your asking for a refund? WOW...
Since 2.1 dropped, I have:

-Continued to fly my a-rated DBS to:
1-Conduct 'experimental chemical recovery missions'. Even stacked two of these at once.
2-Put over 1.1million creds into the Bounty Hunting CG at Ngolibardu
3-Evaded interdiction from many different rated NPCs, in many various ships (nothing bigger than a clipper so far)
4-Been interdicted by and then either destroyed or escaped from a number of various rated NPCs in various ships (up to & including FAS/FDS/Clippers)
5-BHunted in RESs and taken down everything up to Anacondas.

-Flown my T7 to:
1-Contribute 1400t to the current trade CG
2-Scored two (2) kills along the way.

I have yet to be destroyed....

I am not an Elite rated pilot. I am not even rated Dangerous. My current rating is 75% Expert.

It's just not that difficult. Forget your previous play style. NPCs are no longer graduates of the Anakin Skywalker flight school (spinning's a good trick).

They will fight back, they will flee, they will use tactics. Yes, there are some crazy weapon cool down / fire rate bugs to be found and squashed, but I'm sure FD are working feverishly to correct those.

Improvise. Adapt. Overcome.

I'm not hardcore. I play a few hours on the weekends and an hour or two total during the week. If I can do it....

Toffs
( '-')7

I'm in the same boat, I don't consider myself (most of the time :p) a top notch pilot; but regardless of the "difficulty peak" I'm doing quite well. Maybe it's just luck.
I have run into differents scenarios (USS, trade/assassination/salvage missions) without much trouble, some BH too.

If someone wants to wing up I'm ready.
 
Difficulty levels in an MP game doesn't really work. But it might be time to establish levels of "civility" in the galaxy. There are people who still say that being pirated in Sol or Achenar or being attacked by powerplay opponents in their powerplay capital is absurd, and they have a point. Pirates in the faction capitals should have balls of steel or be truly desperate, and they should get swarmed by cops for doing that. All of that police action would of course mean higher taxes and less profits. Massage this into the BGS where you can take action to stabilise and destabilise areas and you begin to get some of that depth people like to talk about.
 
snip
It's just not that difficult. Forget your previous play style. NPCs are no longer graduates of the Anakin Skywalker flight school (spinning's a good trick).

Improvise. Adapt. Overcome.

Toffs
( '-')7

I think you miss the point of this post... I don't WANT TO IMPROVISE, ADAPT and OVERCOME. That is your style of game play. Don't impose it on me... I have been forced to improvise, adapt and compromise enough already thank you!
 
At present an Explorer can spend months out in the black only to find that their ship is blown away as they come back to the bubble.

actually: no. there are many high security systems at the edge of the bubble, with landing pads close to entry point. chance of interdiction is close to zero, if you don't have a bounty, or run a mission (two things explorers don't do). if you haven't have a lot of high value cargo (explorers don't do) - and if you are not pledged in powerplay.

differently to 1.5.1 patch i haven't read from any returning explorer getting destroyed - and i don't believe you will, if you choose your return port wisely.

and yes, i have done that (e.g. returning from a month long trip). i have even used the exploration data at different places in the bubble, to gain reputaion (after reoutfitting my explorationship).
 
I've said this before, I can live with super easy AI in supercruise and only have harder AI show in places with designated difficulty indicators.
Designated difficulty indicators already exist in the game, in the form of Low, 'Normal', High and Hazardous extraction sites....same with signal sources.
They simply need to make AIs of each difficulty ONLY show up in those places.

That being said, I don't ever want to see arbitrary levels dictate what enemy I can or cannot fight. I sometimes wipe my savegames, and don't want to be stuck fighting mindlessly dumb AI for the first dozen hours.
That's a major problem I have with regular MMORPGs, or RPGs in general.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
I think you miss the point of this post... I don't WANT TO IMPROVISE, ADAPT and OVERCOME.

Frontier have been clear that they will be developing the game over an extended period - ten years or so. To expect one's gameplay to be unaffected, in any way, by developments would seem to be rather optimistic.

None of the previous iterations of this game had difficulty levels - they allowed players to do what they can in this game - tailor their gameplay to the environment - avoid / seek out dangerous situations, trade with corporate state / anarchy, etc..

There's also an amount of evidence to suggest that there are a few bugs in the implementation of the New AI and the outfit of NPC ships (rate of fire bug of some weapons as one example). I expect that Frontier will address these in due course.
 
I've said this before, I can live with super easy AI in supercruise and only have harder AI show in places with designated difficulty indicators.
Designated difficulty indicators already exist in the game, in the form of Low, 'Normal', High and Hazardous extraction sites....same with signal sources.
They simply need to make AIs of each difficulty ONLY show up in those places.

That being said, I don't ever want to see arbitrary levels dictate what enemy I can or cannot fight. I sometimes wipe my savegames, and don't want to be stuck fighting mindlessly dumb AI for the first dozen hours.
That's a major problem I have with regular MMORPGs, or RPGs in general.

I actually quite like your simple solution. If the npc's that do turn up outside of the hazardous zones are easy, that would make the game much more tolerable for me. If I choose to fight against harder npc's I can then do so at my own risk.
 
I think you miss the point of this post... I don't WANT TO IMPROVISE, ADAPT and OVERCOME. That is your style of game play. Don't impose it on me... I have been forced to improvise, adapt and compromise enough already thank you!

And at this point the thread falls down hill, I'd be asking for this thread to be shut down now, it's probably going to hurt if you don't.

The WHOLE POINT to ED is that you are meant to improvise, adapt & overcome. Just imagine how hard it's going to be once Thargoids make an appearance.
 
And at this point the thread falls down hill, I'd be asking for this thread to be shut down now, it's probably going to hurt if you don't.

The WHOLE POINT to ED is that you are meant to improvise, adapt & overcome. Just imagine how hard it's going to be once Thargoids make an appearance.


^^^This^^^

Toffs
( '-')7
 
The reality is that the current storm of issues is created by two compounded issues. NPCs are supposed to rarely have engineer modified weapons. At the moment it's far too frequent and that coupled with a bug relating to the damage they are causing means that the impact is very significant. Hopefully by reducing the frequency of special modifications down and re-adjusting the damage caused for NPC's using those weapons all will be well again. A patch in the next day or two should hopefully see it relegated to a non issue.
 
Seriously difficulty levels, you should as a matter of course in playing this game use the information that is available from within the game to assess, the particular difficulties you are likely to face once you launch from the docking pad.

If you want a safe level of progression then dont take difficult or dangerous missions, or fly and trade in conflicted areas... No players are excluded by the game design or mechanics thus far, you just have to think more thoughtfully about risk rewards. The scaled difficulty levels that the OP mentioned have been and are already in place as I have understood since Day One release and while balance issues are never going to be at a static point, the balancing thus far by the Devs has been consistent. Everyone made the choice to buy this game, knowing full well it would be both difficult and challenging, and the intentions of the Devs to maintain it as such.


While there will always be a small element of people who want to play a type of game, regardless that it may or does not suit there play style. That is not the fault of the Developers or the game itself.
 
That being said, I don't ever want to see arbitrary levels dictate what enemy I can or cannot fight. I sometimes wipe my savegames, and don't want to be stuck fighting mindlessly dumb AI for the first dozen hours.
That's a major problem I have with regular MMORPGs, or RPGs in general.

Very selfish attitude tbh. You're saying new players should have to face hard AI right from the off so experienced players who wipe their saves get challenged.

I disagree, the game should be a progression in difficulty. At a level that allows new people a foothold in the game before they start to progress and face an increasing challenge as they go through.
Making the game inaccessible to new players will lead to the end of the game IMO.
 
Frontier have been clear that they will be developing the game over an extended period - ten years or so. To expect one's gameplay to be unaffected, in any way, by developments would seem to be rather optimistic.

None of the previous iterations of this game had difficulty levels - they allowed players to do what they can in this game - tailor their gameplay to the environment - avoid / seek out dangerous situations, trade with corporate state / anarchy, etc..

There's also an amount of evidence to suggest that there are a few bugs in the implementation of the New AI and the outfit of NPC ships (rate of fire bug of some weapons as one example). I expect that Frontier will address these in due course.

+ 1 rep as I have rep you once already today...:eek:

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Very selfish attitude tbh. You're saying new players should have to face hard AI right from the off so experienced players who wipe their saves get challenged.

I disagree, the game should be a progression in difficulty. At a level that allows new people a foothold in the game before they start to progress and face an increasing challenge as they go through.
Making the game inaccessible to new players will lead to the end of the game IMO.

It already is outside of starting in open, which can lay you in the sights of those players that decide seal clubbing is fun and no multi player online game has a safe zone. At worst you can choose to clear save, at best you will not have invested in a expansive ship that you cannot afford to buy back.
 
Is this what is really happening? Are Elite players actually being interdicted by mostly harmless NPCs? I've been getting interdicted by Deadly rank NPCS for quite some time, since at least 2.0 and my rank has only recently gone up to Competent.

To repeat something as the whole "Your rank controls what content you are exposed" myth keeps going around:

quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by Loetmichel
It does give a pretty good estimation of which NPCs you meet tho.

So if the op ranked uo to deadly or elite and has no skills to back that up he is in a hard spot now.

I mean: i am only dangerous now and have no problems with the new AI. But i chose my targets. And when i am in my AspE and get interdicted by an Elite python i leg it now.



It doesn't seem to really work that way, what determines the ranking of the NPC seems more tied to what prompted their spawning and taking interest in the player. I've reset my progress a few times since release mostly when a large update occurs that changes fundamental things so with 2.1 am flying with a combat rank of 'Expert'.

If I get interdicted by a random pirate it's typically lower ranked.

If I get interdicted by a NPC spawned in relation to a mission, their rank greatly varies likely driven by the rating of the mission.

If I get interdicted by powerplay affiliated NPCs, their rank is typically dangerous at a minimum.



So the game seems to care very little for what rank you actually are, instead it's more driven by what you're getting yourself involved in. If you join a powerplay faction you will be opening yourself up to constant interdiction attempts by Dangerous or Elite rated NPC every 10 minutes or so.

Now that the mission rating is just a guideline and not a requirement to take the mission, if you ignore the advertised rating and just accept anything you will potentially be opening yourself up to tougher NPCs as your objectives or having tougher NPCs try to jump you to steal the mission goods from you.

Get a bounty on your head, you'll attract the attention of a variable range of rated NPCs.


But your actual personal rating doesn't really seem to be taken into consideration in the slightest. The game will gladly send Dangerous Vultures after a Novice Sidewinder that's logged a total of 7 hours in the game if they've joined a powerplay faction, or take on a higher ranked mission without looking at the advertised difficulty and then also manage to ignore the warning the game gives you before accepting the contract.

It's not about what ranks you are.

It has never been driven entirely by what ranks you have.

It's about what you expose your pilot to in terms of:

* The missions you run.
* The systems you work in.
* The actions you perform such as destroying ships not wanted by local system authorities to get a bounty on your head
* Opting into major faction conflicts through things like powerplay.

Those are the things that directly influence what grade of challenge you are exposed to.

You go fly to a high security system, affiliated with a major power that's opposed to the major power that holds influence over the system, and you start just killing anything that moves... you'll get all sorts of problems from high rated ships.

You go fly to a low security system, and have a bounty from other systems worth 120,000 credits... you'll get all sorts of problems from high rated ships both pirates/murderers looking to kill you for giggles, and bounty hunters looking to kill you because you're wanted.

You fly in a high security system, not affiliated with a major power, and stick to the law and don't go breaking the law in any other systems but then run a higher rated mission because it's paying you 3,000,000 credits... you'll likely get problems from high rated ships whilst running the mission.


Actions have consequences, they act as triggers that feed into what spawns where and why.

Having a low rating doesn't give you a shield of special Unicorn magic that transforms the universe to reflect your rating and scales everything your meet accordingly. Rating is not a levelling system. It has never been a levelling system. And it never will be levelling system.

You take on tougher jobs, misbehave in a system and destroy civilian ships, pick a side in a giant galactic war, or go wandering around systems with no security that are thriving hubs of psychotic murderers.... then you're opening yourself up to be tackled by tougher targets.

Staying away from such things means you'll also encounter tougher targets a hell of a lot less frequently no matter what your rating is.

But you can't go wander around the most dangerous systems in populated space, in a poorly equipped ship, announcing to everyone that you're part of a group actively working to conquer their territory and killing you will actually give them money... and then expect to meet low threat targets because you're rated as a easy target with little combat experience.
 
Last edited:
"Winter is coming."
not if the PVE players who stay out of open because open is too hard and complein about private because the environment is too hard. More like a prolongued spring where we shoot endless waves of thargoids spawning in thargoid zones like fish in a barrel that fly like diamond shaped kebabs until we have 600.000.000.000.000 credits. Either way....it is a pity on release nothing was finalized so every release there will be another community tug of war. Well that's assuming the hardcore crowd doesn' t join the vanduul swarm instead of the combat zone and the pve don' t go off to a an infinite procedurally generated galaxy filled with dayglow dinosaurs.

Maybe just have high sec with working sec. It would be unlikely for any hardcore criminals to 'work' in the coreworlds for instance and have the security forces do their thing there. Just make the core worlds safe (few thousands) and make the frontier and anarchy worlds a real wild west turkey zang lang part place. Then PVE players can be in open even and we respect lore at the same time.
 
Last edited:
As of 2.1 the AI flight mechanics etc are great,very challenging, the ship mechanics around weapons/heat/power etc need looking into of course, as does some of the behaviour around chasing players down in far away places with no scans ever taking place. There are obviously some issues there, but all fixable without the need for difficulty levels etc

Maybe FD, as a matter of urgency, need to introduce NPC hired help for players so they can have a wing that they pay for either through increased dividends or for a fixed fee per hour or something...miners/traders/mediocre skilled bounty hunters etc can then get some combat assistance and stop complaining about a good game
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom