News NPC AI, Engineers and Bi-Weave shields....

[SeeZaa]

awesome work guys.. support were cool over the weekend, they were quick to reply and while a little unsure about the bi weaves, misunderstandings happen and i think most players were just stoked that support were there for us in the 1st place, and quick to respond.

im really, really happy that you guys aren't making a sweeping change to the ai here, i appreciate how much work went into getting them where they are. taking the time to investigate individual cases concerning perceived bugs/unintentional behaviour, while toning down the npc offensive mods is a great way to balance and appease, without doing something that would take away from the new intensity the ai bring to play.. they really do know there stuff now, and i have yet to be rammed by friendlies or see any npc doing pirouettes its as much fun to take on something you can handle, as it is to realise you picked the wrong fight and need to make a hasty retreat with ass in hands the beauty about just removing the offensive mods, is that it is something that can be looked at again later.. i will miss the extra challenge, but i can appreciate the position others are in.

SeeZaa

 

[Elethiomel Zakalwe]

I mostly disagree with the people who think NPCs are too difficult now, but the one thing I do agree needs to change (aside from the obvious bugs) is the annoying bounty hunters/pirates who constantly pursue you no matter what you do. I've only been flying a combat-fit Corvette and it's still annoying as all hell having NPCs that chase me across systems that are incredibly time consuming to kill and absolutely will not leave me alone, so I can imagine how annoying this is for people who can't even kill the damn things. Leave the inter-system bounty hunting/murder/piracy to CMDRs; NPCs should not under any circumstances (save perhaps missions) pursue people outside of their home systems. NPCs should not care if I have a bounty from PP undermining in another system and I've quit powerplay until it changes because it is an incredibly bad mechanic.

 

[Mengy]

We aren't planning on bringing them back in the immedate future. It's not something you can say will never happen. But if they did it would be based on a number of factors, mostly balancing.

I believe that difficult and skilled (but non-bugged) AI is more important than AI running with engineered weapons. That said though I think it would be great if once the bugs are fixed we would very rarely see npc ships with engineer weapons. Or maybe high level mission assassination targets with high payouts could be fully decked out in engineered ships. Kind of like “boss ships”, that would be fun. That way commanders who really wanted the added combat challenge could simply take missions that would freely provide it for them.

 

[GluttonyFang]

Take away the mods from NPCs, fine, just don't nerf their skills.

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

Take away the mods from NPCs, fine, just don't nerf their skills.

I think that's the general idea.

Though I still want to see mods on NPC's - just not on bugged NPC's

 

[Kyokushin]

The first change is that we will be removing almost all Engineers upgrades from the NPCs in game. There are a very few select upgrades that will remain for coding reasons but they will be low level and not combat specific upgrades. On the whole you should notice that the vast majority of upgrades are gone from NPCs which will mean that players will be greater equipped to deal with NPC threats and should be able to last longer in a combat situation, should they need to make a hasty exit. It will also mean that players who gather their own upgrades will have a technical advantage on the NPC combatants too. The good part about this is that these are all server side, which means we are able to make those changes today! Commanders will be able to see the changes taking effect shortly.

For a God sake! Zac! Do not nerf NPC. It was all of fun they HAD ENGINEERS MODS. They was unpredictable and UNIQUE, they attacked by heat, they was faster, agile, and THAT WAS THE POINT of a good change.
If you remove Engineers mods from NPC they will become boring again. Every NPC will be the same... again.
I was so happy from new NPC... i played all 3 days and they was exactly that what I expected from Elite: Dangerous. You made a good change, that was the most important and cool upgrade to the game and You want to remove it now.

... just only fix the insta-kill bugs - they was the most annoying for players, and everything will be fine.

 

[buffy]

Swift response and good results. Thanks FD will look forward to getting my Conda out again and dusting it off.

 

[MVP_Bluntman]

I think that's the general idea.

Though I still want to see mods on NPC's - just not on bugged NPC's

This. I dont care if Dangerous and above have access to modifications, they absolutely should. More challenge = More Enjoyment. JUST DONT BREAK THE TACTICS THIS TIME.

 

[CmdMarty]

Good to hear but makes me wonder why it was released like it was before a holiday weekend. Lots of lost time/credits for some people. I guess the live version is the real beta test.

 

[Loophole]

Perhaps Engineer mods on NPCs could be brought back for some high-ranked mission-generated NPCs, with some suitably-worded warning worked in to the mission brief giving players the hint.

 

[Gully Foyle]

I mostly disagree with the people who think NPCs are too difficult now, but the one thing I do agree needs to change (aside from the obvious bugs) is the annoying bounty hunters/pirates who constantly pursue you no matter what you do. I've only been flying a combat-fit Corvette and it's still annoying as all hell having NPCs that chase me across systems that are incredibly time consuming to kill and absolutely will not leave me alone, so I can imagine how annoying this is for people who can't even kill the damn things. Leave the inter-system bounty hunting/murder/piracy to CMDRs; NPCs should not under any circumstances (save perhaps missions) pursue people outside of their home systems. NPCs should not care if I have a bounty from PP undermining in another system and I've quit powerplay until it changes because it is an incredibly bad mechanic.

They sniff your missions. Stacking trips and cargo will bring them running. Submit and boost, don't highwake out, they follow.
Don't let them chase you, just SC out and re-enter the system.
I noticed today that there seems to be no more cooldown for your FSD if you submit. Anyone else experience this?

 

[Kaybe]

Hallelujah, praise RNGesus!

 

[Max Darko]

Too late for the Courier I lost last night, but a good move overall I think!

Cheers,

Drew.

very sad for you

 

[Marc_Hicks]

Hiya Zac. So will this patch also restore the Surface Rush missions?

 

[CItizenFive]

I feel bad for the devs. If they leave the super-powered bugs and over-equipped ships, they get grief from the vast majority of the gamers who want a challenging, but fair, game. If they make it fair, they get grief from the elitist jerks who want to show off how awesome they are because they can survive in a galaxy that's out of balance and therefore designed to kill all humans.

I'm happy with the short term solution and concur with what most folks are saying: keep the AI, dial back the mods on NPC ships, but phase them into high level NPC ships over time. In a few months I'll have my Python modded to the max, and the new AI is good, but it's not THAT good. I'll need new challenges, and an elite pirate lord with some choice mods would fit the bill nicely. Thanks to FD for listening to us and shooting for a solution that helps most of us, rather than the aforementioned minority of elitist jerks.

 

[Titus Balls]

So GIT GUID is dead

But also I just saw this video (not mine just reposting). I think someone turned the dial up to OVER 9000! After seeing it I'd call it a bug for sure...

[video=youtube;5dHdsYrmKnM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dHdsYrmKnM[/video]

 

[RagingxPenguin]

Please don't make the AI stupid again.
It's nice knowing you can't win every fight anymore. I hope the high end NPC can still have a few mods. Its nice being surprised once in a while.

With the addition of private groups and the general lack of players on console it's hard to get PVP or a good solid fight outside of the same 10 people each time.

The AI remedied that. It gave us something to fear.

 

[stooger]

It is hard to understand if NPC AI difficulty scaling was working with all OP weaponry noise. This will give FD a) time to evaluate feedback how really difficult or easy NPC AI is in 2.1 b) do more internal testing on OP mods and decide what kind of combinations to give to AI, and what to leave to players.

It's a win/win in my opinion.

I don't like restricting npcs to not modded equipment (and I hope it's just temporary solution). It's obvious there are some problems with modded npc's (multi-plasma accelerators lol and other things blowing up fully combat equipped ships within seconds) but I really don't like idea of unfair advantage vs npcs. Balance the mods, fix the bugs, no more insta gibs due to bugged weapons and the npcs will be fine even with mods. Rare sight? Yes, but we should see fully modded npcs sometimes. Also... the mods should give us/them an edge and nothing more. No I_win buttons please, no +300% dps weapons or 500% stronger shield generators. Something subtle, like fine tuning a race car to get that 0.1 second/lap advantage.

 

[Zac Antonaci]

Sigh...

Happy now everyone? FD caved into your wining and now the npcs will be too weak again.

Nothing good will ever happen to this game thanks to this crowed.

We're concious that we dont want to lose the great work on the AI right now. This is why we want to start by looking at the upgrades and the bug fixes and then take it from there.

How or if they are introduced is yet to be decided fully.

 

[Gully Foyle]

For a God sake! Zac! Do not nerf NPC. It was all of fun they HAD ENGINEERS MODS. They was unpredictable and UNIQUE, they attacked by heat, they was faster, agile, and THAT WAS THE POINT of a good change.
If you remove Engineers mods from NPC they will become boring again. Every NPC will be the SAME.
I was so happy from new NPC... i play all 3 days and i they was exactly that what I expeted from Elite: Dangerous.

... just only fix the insta-kill bugs - they was the most annoying for players, and everything will be fine.

I am of this camp as well.
I think folks jumped to grind credits and ships and neglected learning even the most basic of self defense methods and threat avoidance combat tactics.
Modded NPCs are scary-good to inspire your own stuff.