Discuss the AI here!

[Luniticisi]

Can we start, new fresh thread for feedback? As NPCs will be without mods and on equal footing....So we also start fresh to discuss these changes.

I'd say leave it for a couple of days to let people settle in first

Edit - besides we also don't know if removing the Engineers weapons will fix the rate of fire bug ...

 

[Muetdhiver]

I'm kind of sad that modded NPC's are gone.

I hope they will be back at some point, maybe flaging them with the exagon icon to make it clear.

 

[frostypaw]

Can we start, new fresh thread for feedback? As NPCs will be without mods and on equal footing....So we also start fresh to discuss these changes.

Agreed - give it a day though then a new poll too once people are experiencing the new level

(then let the dangerous and above ranks have them back once they've stopped hassling newbies)

 

[FX2K]

Can we start, new fresh thread for feedback? As NPCs will be without mods and on equal footing....So we also start fresh to discuss these changes.

I agree. I think this thread should be closed due to the pending server side changes and if a new one is needed, then so be it, at least it will be more relevant, this one is a combination of too many variables causing confusion, imo.

I don't think a new one will be required yet though.
Hopefully when NPC mods do return, they are not as common as they were this weekend... It was a bit overkill considering what we have to go through to get the mods ourselves.

 

[excalibus]

And when it happens the next time?

And let's not forget that what you're suggesting is actually exploiting the limitations of the game engine rather than a a legit tactic, on a par with quitting out to the menu.

Let me revise, then: 'Everyone still has the choice whether to engage or not' is not true at the moment, unless you know about and are prepared to use exploits.

umm quitting out to menu at any time is a legitimate way to exit the game and has been defined by FDev as NOT combat logging and definitely not exploiting anything...

High waking is also a legitimate way to 'escape' you can then high wake back and you may or may not get the same ship interdicting you no guarantee...

 

[verminstar]

Ok so gotta say that I didn't expect a response from FD this fast...apologies to those who adore them, but I ain't been here as long as you guys. The response was a helluva lot faster than what I'm used to in gaming so I shall have a crack at it later when I get the boring grown up stuff outta the way and reserve judgement until later.

Thank you...verm out ^^

 

[Javert]

I'm kind of sad that modded NPC's are gone.

I hope they will be back at some point, maybe flaging them with the exagon icon to make it clear.

The way I read the message, it says that they are removing the modded weapons from NPC partly so that they can more easily diagnose and fix the other issues, and also because this is something they can do almost immediately without making any updates to client side. This leaves it open that they will come back later (but possibly with much less frequency).

Part of the issue here is that if almost every NPC ship has modified weapons, it is arguably not fair on players who don't own Horizons. If only a small % of them do, that seems ok for me.

 

[Bomba Luigi]

The way I read the message, it says that they are removing the modded weapons from NPC partly so that they can more easily diagnose and fix the other issues, and also because this is something they can do almost immediately without making any updates to client side. This leaves it open that they will come back later (but possibly with much less frequency).

Part of the issue here is that if almost every NPC ship has modified weapons, it is arguably not fair on players who don't own Horizons. If only a small % of them do, that seems ok for me.

Does not look like they bring back mods for npcs anytime soon (if at all)

We aren't planning on bringing them back in the immedate future. It's not something you can say will never happen. But if they did it would be based on a number of factors, mostly balancing.

Which is a bit of a shame, I think high ranked npc should have some mods. For low ranked its good.

 

[Javert]

Ok so gotta say that I didn't expect a response from FD this fast...apologies to those who adore them, but I ain't been here as long as you guys. The response was a helluva lot faster than what I'm used to in gaming so I shall have a crack at it later when I get the boring grown up stuff outta the way and reserve judgement until later.

Thank you...verm out ^^

@verminstar - As I remember, you were already posting in other threads that you were having a lot of problems with getting killed in interdiction even before the 2.1 updates went live last Thursday, so you may find that if you are still struggling in general, these changes will still be more difficult than what we had prior to last Thursday. It could also be that you are getting more experienced since then in which case perhaps you will be fine.

 

[Queex]

umm quitting out to menu at any time is a legitimate way to exit the game and has been defined by FDev as NOT combat logging and definitely not exploiting anything...

High waking is also a legitimate way to 'escape' you can then high wake back and you may or may not get the same ship interdicting you no guarantee...

The thing here is that 'exploit' is not synonymous with 'cheating in a way that attracts penalties'. It's not even pejorative.

High waking out and hoping that you don't get picked up by the same pirate again is exploiting expected NPC behaviour. High waking out to reset the instance is exploiting how the game engine works. I don't think either is 'bad'; but the latter is something that generally only someone familiar with how the game works would know about (and hence newbies probably wouldn't), and makes no sense from an 'in-game' perspective. The former is an obvious tactic, the latter feels a little bit like save scumming. The game is not an optimisation exercise. You shouldn't be expected to know the fine details of every part of the game in order to make progress. Neither should you have to resort to game engine work-around shenanigans. That you can get around problems that way, and not ruffle any feathers, is a far cry from being expected to.

 

[Boomer Kay]

so you may find that if you are still struggling in general, these changes will still be more difficult than what we had prior to last Thursday. It could also be that you are getting more experienced since then in which case perhaps you will be fine.

I stand by my claim that the NPCs were ninja-fixed around the 5th of may.
My spidey senses guesstimate the relative difficulty:
[pre5.5NPCs]--------------------[5.5NPCs]----[26.5.NPCs without Engineering]

 

[Derath]

I'm kind of sad that modded NPC's are gone.

I hope they will be back at some point, maybe flaging them with the exagon icon to make it clear.

They needed to scale them on a curve based on average player progression, starting them off with full mods was pretty bad but if they never get them back that will be depressing too!

 

[Cmdr Alexei Jaeger]

In high security systems, system security is there in about 30 seconds.
Only need to make sure to survive these 30 seconds, which will definitely be easier now the imba stuff is removed from NPCs.

I'd still recommend practicing non-cheese interdiction evasive manouvers. You might want to go to low sec one day and engineer modifications might be back sooner or later.

Oh, and Thargoids.

Thanks for the reply but the quick response Security may not .... Ahem ... help you for some reason .... Ahem .. case of mistaken identity honest Gov! Just adds to the problems sometimes.

 

[Para Handy]

With respect to the reintroduction of engineer modified weapons to NPCs at a future date:

/Teasing ON

I would be most happy if they were restricted to a few Elite NPCs only found in HCZ which had a permit requirement that you can only get by sending in a "I'm a real iron-man, hard-nut, headcase that loves trolling 'git-gud' responses to people that don't like to pew-pew" email to headofbrown-nosedept at F D.

/Teasing OFF

(Sorry, I told you I was having a bad day.) [alien]

 

[CMDR Kantos Kan]

I think the AI is mostly OK, a bit hard but OK. My problem is that 9/10 of my encounters are with Elite flying deadly ships with weapon mods.

 

[Gully Foyle]

Not any more: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=257892

 

[frostypaw]

I stand by my claim that the NPCs were ninja-fixed around the 5th of may.

I'm sure they were different when I got back to the bubble a week before the release after about a month riftward. The whole place was busier and they were less suicidal, but not really smarter as such like they are now

 

[Pumabear8]

I agree that i am too much being a troll. But. I am really sad that NPC AI now will be nerf cause of these lazy players. It is not hard actualy. You just have to adapt to it. But these players just too damn lazy. They don't want do anything. That is why i sad.

Then stop calling them lazy, I was not aware that computer games were supposed to be about working, but about entertainment and fun, if you got a shirker at the place you work, by all means call them lazy.

 

[Boomer Kay]

The whole place was busier and they were less suicidal, but not really smarter as such like they are now

Not at the current level, but closer to what we have now compared to the complete duds we had before.
I guess if they would have just pushed the current AI (which is weaker than the peak of the 2.1 beta, if I understand correctly) without mods, few players would have noticed that much of a difference.

 

[frostypaw]

few players would have noticed that much of a difference.

Ah I think we'll still see a lot of people dying... even with that minibuff I never had to do more than an FA-off turn to take out high ranked midsize ships and wings were easy to divide and conquer. Nothing like the full on skating rink I enjoyed last night. Very much looking forwards to being finished with this praseduyemencumismwotsit for FSD upgrade attempts in my hold so I could fight more fearlessly