THIS ^^
Duane Dibbley
Banned
Ever heard of the terms 'leading question' & 'loaded words'?....'thought not!
for real????Kinder Surprise is illegal in the USA
Maybe if you could get 3 rerolls per upgrade when in the workshop, makes it a bit of a gamble but at least you have a chance
I'm German and not a native English speaker... though i don't how you "feel" my text
...but i think my point should be clear. http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...urprise-eggs-illegal-in-the-usa-10055273.html
![[VR] Deggial](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/47/47252.jpg?1553527110){kind=avatar}
RNG!
- Without it, you have what you have - no need to try any more, your optimum is reached. Done! Endgame achieved. (Okay, a reset is still fun...)
- With RNG, there is a long-lasting incentive to keep playing (even with an advanced commander). There will be always the chance to get an (even slightly better) result.
- A bad RNG roll can be tried again - a good one will last "forever".
- There is no light without shadow. How can anybody feel the triumph of an awesome RNG roll without the "threat" of failure?
=> Whenever you'll look at this one, awesome "wow"-equipment, you'll know that this is something special and a reason of rejoice! Droping RNG will steal this feeling from us and the game would be poorer because of it!
- Without it, you have what you have - no need to try any more, your optimum is reached. Done! Endgame achieved. (Okay, a reset is still fun...)
- With RNG, there is a long-lasting incentive to keep playing (even with an advanced commander). There will be always the chance to get an (even slightly better) result.
- A bad RNG roll can be tried again - a good one will last "forever".
- There is no light without shadow. How can anybody feel the triumph of an awesome RNG roll without the "threat" of failure?
=> Whenever you'll look at this one, awesome "wow"-equipment, you'll know that this is something special and a reason of rejoice! Droping RNG will steal this feeling from us and the game would be poorer because of it!
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That's the reason i would like to see sliders with exponential negative side effects for the maximum positive attribute.
With that, you can come back later an get a bit more extreme mods because you upgraded your reactor and now your ship can handle a bit more power draw.
I would prefer something in the middle: Upgrades are still RNG, but instead of rerolling you can also "fine-tune" the module for a few common materials and credits(stats get a bit better/additional random positive side effects), it won't be as effective as getting a much better roll, but can save you a couple of rerolls if the modification wasn't too bad.
When they keep full RNG, why not making a new roll over an already modded module (or multiple rolls if you have the mats) forced to make it slightly better / less worse each time asymptotic to the max value.
The grind would make more sense and you not have the risk of a frustrating new roll with absolutely no benefit.
If you mod a module 10 times you should be really close to the max best outcome, which is absolutely ok in terms of fairness and balance.
The grind would make more sense and you not have the risk of a frustrating new roll with absolutely no benefit.
If you mod a module 10 times you should be really close to the max best outcome, which is absolutely ok in terms of fairness and balance.
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This.
Works like an experiment based on simulation. If it's ok, then Engineer use its materials, if not, player roll simulation.
Please, don't quote me to make your point. Our positions are not compatible.
I'm sunning myself, on holiday for the week. Lucky me I know letting you guys iron out the cobwebs for me.
I like the idea of the material "grind". Lots of stuff to collect and many activities to do to get them. This adds depth and an increased variety of activities and things to do. Mix things up a little. I like it.
What I'm NOT looking forward to is getting the duff engineer rolls that will inevitably happen, and then having to go hunting again.
I'm in the "I'll play for resources but for the love of what you believe in make that the only grind" camp. Hate the idea of "rolling" for upgrades.
Looking forward to playing the fixed version when I back
I like the idea of the material "grind". Lots of stuff to collect and many activities to do to get them. This adds depth and an increased variety of activities and things to do. Mix things up a little. I like it.
What I'm NOT looking forward to is getting the duff engineer rolls that will inevitably happen, and then having to go hunting again.
I'm in the "I'll play for resources but for the love of what you believe in make that the only grind" camp. Hate the idea of "rolling" for upgrades.
Looking forward to playing the fixed version when I back
This sounds cool...
Bit touchy aren't we ?
Your positions are not compatible but you seem to have areas that overlap.
Yes, this would be a good compromise. It would also make the lower grade upgrade more viable - if you have a good grade 2 mod already, this would already be the floor for the stats and a higher grade mod would always roll better than what you have.
I understand some people - like you - love the thrill of RNG - for me it is pure frustration. Adding RNG to the game now is to me like removing the RNG would feel to you. Compromises have been suggested (as the one I quoted just before - where RNG just determines how fast you advance towards the theoretical maximum on this attempt, not whether you gain anything at all), but right now we go from no-RNG to full RNG and half the players love it, half the players hate it.
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There are much more than 3 options, though the "Give me exact results" min/max mentality will always gravitate more toward "RNG is RNG unless I can give exact values".
I posted this idea during Beta but didn't get received too well as it was "Still RNG" but:
A good middle ground compromise in my eyes would be to keep the initial stat generation roll, but have it act as just the first step in the process. Once the initial base stats rolled are presented allow the player to pay the Engineer to 'QA' the modification in a particular area to optimise the modification.
How this would work is if the player decides to pay the Engineer for additional optimisation the system then establishes a semi-random range from the current values that each single stat can be increased or decreased, but you can only optimise one stat and doing so causes all other stats to get worse by the same increment amounts.
So say you modify a pulse laser for more damage per shot and integrity but at the cost of less range and worse heat efficiency. The possible outcome ranges might be:
* Damage gain for a additional 3 damage per shot up to an additional 9 damage per shot.
* Integrity from 5% integrity boost to 15% integrity boost.
* Weapon range from 2.5km to 1.5km.
* Heat efficiency from 5% less efficiency to 15% less efficiency.
Your initial modification roll gives you:
* 4 damage per shot boost.
* 5% integrity boost.
* 2.3km range.
* 12% heat efficiency loss.
You decide to pay for optimisation and the ranges given are:
* Damage gain for a additional 2 damage (-1 damage from initial roll) up to 7 damage per shot (+4 damage from initial roll)
* Integrity from 2% (-3% from initial roll) up to 8% (+3 from initial roll)
* Weapon range from 2.6km (+0.3km from initial roll) to 2.0km (-0.3km from initial roll)
* Heat efficieny from 9% loss (+3% from initial roll) to 18% loss (-6% from initial roll)
You decide to crank up damage up to 7 more damage per shot, increasing it by 4 increments.
For the sake of example simplicity I'm going to work off of a 1:1 ratio between stats, but realistically that wouldn't be the case... anyway so applying your optimisation into damage then lowers all other values by 4 incremental values as well. So you end up with:
* Damage gain of 7 more damage per shot.
* Integrity gain of 1%.
* Weapon range reduction down to 2.1km.
* Heat efficiency loss of 16%
I posted this idea during Beta but didn't get received too well as it was "Still RNG" but:
A good middle ground compromise in my eyes would be to keep the initial stat generation roll, but have it act as just the first step in the process. Once the initial base stats rolled are presented allow the player to pay the Engineer to 'QA' the modification in a particular area to optimise the modification.
How this would work is if the player decides to pay the Engineer for additional optimisation the system then establishes a semi-random range from the current values that each single stat can be increased or decreased, but you can only optimise one stat and doing so causes all other stats to get worse by the same increment amounts.
So say you modify a pulse laser for more damage per shot and integrity but at the cost of less range and worse heat efficiency. The possible outcome ranges might be:
* Damage gain for a additional 3 damage per shot up to an additional 9 damage per shot.
* Integrity from 5% integrity boost to 15% integrity boost.
* Weapon range from 2.5km to 1.5km.
* Heat efficiency from 5% less efficiency to 15% less efficiency.
Your initial modification roll gives you:
* 4 damage per shot boost.
* 5% integrity boost.
* 2.3km range.
* 12% heat efficiency loss.
You decide to pay for optimisation and the ranges given are:
* Damage gain for a additional 2 damage (-1 damage from initial roll) up to 7 damage per shot (+4 damage from initial roll)
* Integrity from 2% (-3% from initial roll) up to 8% (+3 from initial roll)
* Weapon range from 2.6km (+0.3km from initial roll) to 2.0km (-0.3km from initial roll)
* Heat efficieny from 9% loss (+3% from initial roll) to 18% loss (-6% from initial roll)
You decide to crank up damage up to 7 more damage per shot, increasing it by 4 increments.
For the sake of example simplicity I'm going to work off of a 1:1 ratio between stats, but realistically that wouldn't be the case... anyway so applying your optimisation into damage then lowers all other values by 4 incremental values as well. So you end up with:
* Damage gain of 7 more damage per shot.
* Integrity gain of 1%.
* Weapon range reduction down to 2.1km.
* Heat efficiency loss of 16%
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If I took my car to the garage and the mechanic said, "I've fixed yer fuel pump mate but it now uses more fuel tho!, That will be £150 in total sir."
I would say "you can put the bloody thing right or I aint paying you at all mate!"
We need more engineers who do the same thing to encourage competition!
I would say "you can put the bloody thing right or I aint paying you at all mate!"
We need more engineers who do the same thing to encourage competition!
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I didn't vote because my opinion is not covered by the 3 options.
I want a fixed total value for all outcomes, but variation: i.e. you get:
- (1) more mass but more improvement module
- (2) less mass but less improvement to module
- but never (3) more mass and less improvement to module
The way I understand it works now is that (3) is possible. It shouldn't be. All level 1 mods should have the same total improvement factor, all level 2 mods the same, somewhat higher, overall improvement factor, etc.
A little RNG in my opinion is fine, so long as it's fair and balanced.
I want a fixed total value for all outcomes, but variation: i.e. you get:
- (1) more mass but more improvement module
- (2) less mass but less improvement to module
- but never (3) more mass and less improvement to module
The way I understand it works now is that (3) is possible. It shouldn't be. All level 1 mods should have the same total improvement factor, all level 2 mods the same, somewhat higher, overall improvement factor, etc.
A little RNG in my opinion is fine, so long as it's fair and balanced.
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