Engineers I'm about to give up on this game again

[RealNC]

I started playing this game again when 2.1 came out. That was three days ago. For those three days, all I'm doing is searching for modified legacy firmware.

Three days. I need two, found zero. I checked hundreds of missions, none of them have it as a reward. I checked out countless USSes, nothing.

And the worst thing is, you can't even drop materials like you can do with cargo. That way at least players could get together and exchange materials. But nope. Not possible.

And even if I get those two firmwares next week (I work from Monday to Saturday), then what? Am I gonna get a dice roll that sucks and then have to grind for another week to try again? I'm sorry, but that's just not acceptable. Is this really the game FDev wanted to make? Is this "fun"?

Where the heck is this game going? What is it evolving into?

 

[Andovar]

It's fun for me. But I'm not trying to grind for engineer upgrades either.

 

[RealNC]

It's fun for me. But I'm not trying to grind for engineer upgrades either.

Well, one of the reasons I gave up on the game before is that it takes too much time to travel. With FSD Engineer mods, at least I can hope to get my Asp Explorer to do 45ly jumps.

With the way things are now, if I keep playing towards that goal, I might succeed by early next year...

 

[Derath]

It's fun for me. But I'm not trying to grind for engineer upgrades either.

Not everybody with an objective is grinding, there is an issue with the drop-rates on some of the components that seem to be entirely distributed at random, the various firmwares and like 5-6 of the elements are like fairy dust or unicorn horns. The constant threads about the same thing highlight this, the OP sounds like he was willing to put in a reasonable amount of time without complaining and its just when RNGesus really hits you that it becomes frustrating.

 

[ShimEnki]

The ED version of WW3 with NPCs has ended, meaning that the race to attain eng mods just to enjoy the game at a fun and functional level is no longer necessary thanks to the strong FD leadership response.

That means, maybe defocus on ENG mats gathering and let it arrive naturally, checking the recipes now n then. No rush

 

[Andovar]

Not everybody with an objective is grinding, there is an issue with the drop-rates on some of the components that seem to be entirely distributed at random, the various firmwares and like 5-6 of the elements are like fairy dust or unicorn horns. The constant threads about the same thing highlight this, the OP sounds like he was willing to put in a reasonable amount of time without complaining and its just when RNGesus really hits you that it becomes frustrating.

Point taken.
Maybe I jumped the gun a bit, but there's enough rant threads on here, that it's easy to not listen to the issue.

Anyway, if there is an actual issue with the drop rates, maybe a bug report is in order.

 

[Surly_Badger]

Is this "fun"?

At the point in any game where I ask myself "is this fun?" I stop playing.

Seriously. It's a game. If you find yourself "grinding" for something in any game then I suspect you don't understand what "fun" is.

 

[RealNC]

At the point in any game where I ask myself "is this fun?" I stop playing.

Seriously. It's a game. If you find yourself "grinding" for something in any game then I suspect you don't understand what "fun" is.

I'm not trying to grind. But it seems the game forces me to. Unless you know of another way to get 40+ly jump range. I'm all ears :-/

 

[Derath]

Point taken.
Maybe I jumped the gun a bit, but there's enough rant threads on here, that it's easy to not listen to the issue.

Anyway, if there is an actual issue with the drop rates, maybe a bug report is in order.

I know i'm usually on your side of things, but I also am casually doing the activities I enjoy at the moment with the general objective of upgrading the engineers when I can and the whole system is nebulous and confusing, i'm not sure i'd have managed any upgrades without specifically looking for certain ingredients because they love throwing the unicorn horn in.

I mean currently your actually looking for a rare mission, that gives a rare reward, the USS/mission pool seems to contain just about everything so if you want anything that comes from either of those you really are in the hands of the RNG gods, personally I think this is a design flaw and is why you see so many threads about it - for myself i'm just skipping every upgrade/levelup that uses them and trying to manage without.

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I'm not trying to grind. But it seems the game forces me to. Unless you know of another way to get 40+ly jump range. I'm all ears :-/

Try visiting all the engineers in a corvette, If i thought FD were griefing their players with low FSD range before its even worse now its like 30 jumps per engineer :/

 

[RealNC]

Try visiting all the engineers in a corvette, If i thought FD were griefing their players with low FSD range before its even worse now its like 30 jumps per engineer :/

I tried in a Vulture.

I just quit the game client mid-way :-/

 

[Derath]

I tried in a Vulture.

I just quit the game client mid-way :-/

I wouldn't quit I'd just make a shopping list for exactly what you need to go from 1-5 and craft a top rank of whatever you want, its fairly predictable how much % you get per craft just take enough for 4 T1/2/3/4 and 1 T5 then head out there - its gonna be my new approach

but as for firmware I think its drop-rate so to speak will get changed, at the moment its drowned out by the hundreds of other mission rewards which i don't think is intentional.

 

[Slone]

I think the small mistake Frontier made with the RNG mechanics, is to display it so obviously. They simply designed a computer way of throwing dices. If instead we could have had something more like an animation of the guy crafting the item and handing the end result to us, asking if we like it, I guess we would understand better the intention. We would better accept the idea that perhaps he/she was uninspired that day or maybe isn't that competent. Also I guess the player should have another shot for free, that could enhance or damage the work, but with a much lower amplitude. Maybe you could have more attempts for free if you have a very good relationship with the engineers.

I think it's the problem with many aspects of the game : for instance, the ISS (although the engineer version make a bit more sense with the update), the POI, the missions, etc. the dices are way too visible.

Probably because I did some table top RPG in my younger days, I don't mind that much, I understand the idea behind this kind of mechanics and accept those rules, but I also can understand the frustration when you've been focusing on doing just that and see it "fails" because of a bad roll. At least, in an RPG, you're usually more busy building your character and completing his/her quest, than finding or upgrading magic weapons. The dices can help or slow you, but it doesn't really change what you're after and the reason you're playing.

 

[Ian Skippy]

I'm not trying to grind. But it seems the game forces me to. Unless you know of another way to get 40+ly jump range. I'm all ears :-/

People always defend their grinding by claiming they need this or that. If you dont like exploring in a 30LY Aps, you wont like it in a 40LY asp. Focussing on one small aspect of the game is indeed no fun, so you shouldn't do it. Simple, really.

By the way, dont you get firmware from datapoints?

 

[SlugwormX]

...People always defend their grinding by claiming they need this or that.

And people always defend the grind mechanic by either saying 'you don't need to grind' or you 'are playing the wrong way'. It's all a matter of perspective. Could you not have just suggested the solution without trying to defend the grind?

Also, the OP did not suggest that they didn't like exploring, they only said they wanted a 40ly jump range on an ASP. That is a laudable goal, but one that will take a large amount of time that they might not have. Imagine if you could devote an hour or two to the game each week. How long would it take you to get mats, travel to and from engineers and fight the RNGdemons to get that 40ly range? 10 hours? (I don't know, I gave up due to a series of poor rolls). That means they have to dedicate a month and a bit to upgrade one item, that may or may not work out. Maybe try and look at things from other's perspectives sometimes: it can't hurt.

 

[RealNC]

People always defend their grinding by claiming they need this or that. If you dont like exploring in a 30LY Aps, you wont like it in a 40LY asp. Focussing on one small aspect of the game is indeed no fun, so you shouldn't do it. Simple, really.

By the way, dont you get firmware from datapoints?

I don't like exploring. Who told you I like exploring? Where did you get that from?

I like getting to my destination fast.

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This game is broken. This is now the second week and I still have not found the firmwares.

Please fix this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PLEASE!!

 

[GG7]

I mentioned this in a few other threads and I think it is appropriate here as well. I think the Frontier folks need to try their hand at playing the game the SAME WAY we all must play it. Not with their special developer accounts that give them access to everything in the game instantly, along with billions of credits to buy every ship etc.

I wonder based on how much time they spend working on the game, if any of the folks making these design decisions have actually sat down and PLAYED IT? I mean REALLY PLAYED IT! ? For a couple of weeks, to get a feel for how it really feels to play ED as one of their paying customers. ??

So much of the imbalances I and so many other ED players are complaining about seem to stem directly from a huge disconnect in the way Frontier looks at TIME. Time in respect to how much of it your average ED gamer actually has to invest into the game over any given week of their lives.

The current time-suck design of Engineers could not have been hatched and executed by anyone who had actually played this game with a standard account, where they had to earn everything they have in the game, and thus had already logged a considerable amount of time getting to where they were at the 2.1 release date.

I really believe that a good chunk of these issues come down to something as simple as that.

 

[Brian of Ardagh]

I do see a lot of these threads say "just play the game" and you'll get what you need for the Engineers. The Engineers expansion just dropped, I got an invitation from Elvira, I go see her and she says she can help me if I donate and can get her some materials. So I donate and try to find materials. That's not grinding, that's playing the game. Grinding is thinking you need to get to tier 5 with every Engineer by the end of the month on all your equipment.

I mostly trade. A tier 1 FSD upgrade requires Arsenic, Atypical Disrupted Wake Echoes, and Chemical Processors. I've never mined and I rarely make planet fall so if I play the game the way I usually do I would never get Arsenic. I might find Chemical Processors in my travels but for Wake Echos I would have to fit a wake scanner. My Cobra Mk IV has 2 utility mounts, fitting a wake scanner means losing a shield booster, PD or chaff. That's not I tradeoff I want to make given the AI improvement.

I'm not saying I wouldn't do those things but for some players you have to make the conscious decision to seek out the materials or data the Engineers want. That might mean retrofitting your ship, if like me you aren't flush with credits. What's the point of getting an invitation from an Engineer if you won't return for 6 months?

Edited to add: I'm actually looking forward to doing some of these other activities, I've been wanting to try mining and surface prospecting. I don't have a lot of credits, I only have the 1 ship so I will have to find some quick credits if I want to do more. I won't smuggle slaves or trade in Imperial slaves just to make a quick credit. I might be poor but I have principles, although I'm not against selling on the black market. I'm thinking a rare trade route is a good option as many missions come with the ubiquitous hostiles. The "yes, we know we have a mole in the office but we like him so we won't fire him" syndrome!

 

[GG7]

I do see a lot of these threads say "just play the game" and you'll get what you need for the Engineers. The Engineers expansion just dropped, I got an invitation from Elvira, I go see her and she says she can help me if I donate and can get her some materials. So I donate and try to find materials. That's not grinding, that's playing the game. Grinding is thinking you need to get to tier 5 with every Engineer by the end of the month on all your equipment.

I mostly trade. A tier 1 FSD upgrade requires Arsenic, Atypical Disrupted Wake Echoes, and Chemical Processors. I've never mined and I rarely make planet fall so if I play the game the way I usually do I would never get Arsenic. I might find Chemical Processors in my travels but for Wake Echos I would have to fit a wake scanner. My Cobra Mk IV has 2 utility mounts, fitting a wake scanner means losing a shield booster, PD or chaff. That's not I tradeoff I want to make given the AI improvement.

I'm not saying I wouldn't do those things but for some players you have to make the conscious decision to seek out the materials or data the Engineers want. That might mean retrofitting your ship, if like me you aren't flush with credits. What's the point of getting an invitation from an Engineer if you won't return for 6 months?

A segment of this community suffers from a serious empathy deficiency. Their complete lack of ability to spend a few minutes in another player's shoes. While I run a Python and have a few more slots to choose from, I totally get your point about nerfing your ship of choice's defensive capabilities to fit the needed equipment to locate Engineer materials.

This is why all those hollow comments about "Just Play the Game" and it all falls into place, rings so hollow. It is a fatally flawed argument plain and simple.

 

[Mosait]

I tried in a Vulture.

I just quit the game client mid-way :-/

I originally did that too, with the purpose of modding my vulture. It was a pain especially with the limited slots. Then I realized I could make it a little bit easier by taking another ship that is equipped with the same parts, a power plant for instance, upgrade it in that and then swap it out with the vulture once upgraded.
This , of course, is not ideal and illustrates some of the weak areas in 2.1. I'm just going add a fav word of mine that keeps popping up: storage.

 

[capt_sparks]

I've already had 3 lvl5 FSD upgrades and has 2 more tries that I plan to spend later. And I wasn't deliberately looking for these materials at all since I'm into finding other engineers for now. And I'm only playing 3 hours every day.

Point is, don't try focusing on one goal only. If you wish to maximize your time, get a spreadsheet, plan all the recipes, materials and engineer progressions thoroughly, and each upgrade will land on you without taking much effort at all. Focusing on one goal only wastes a lot of opportunities for other upgrades that you'll need in the future.