The Star Citizen Thread v 4

[Backer42]

A delivery date of 2020, if given now, is not bad, and they already given up promising delivery dates.

Publishers will strike back and shove us space games left and right in den second half of this decade. With Hollywood actors, working mo-cap, A-grade scripts, 4K-resolution assets, local physics grids, working netcode, VR support, seamless transition between space combat and first person, also between planet surface and space. And most importantly: with actual enjoyable gameplay. Made within the usual 3 years with a fraction of the $100M budget and sold for the $60 standard rate. They all started during the past years and they will all release gold before 2020.

Only people not interested in space games or videos games will ignore all this and will continue to ride the SC grey market for monetary profit. But gamers moved on.

Just wait for E3 2016.

 

[Electrofreak]

Personally, I think the people predicting a "Star Citizen apocalypse" in here are sipping some pretty strong Kool-Aid. No matter what you think about the game and its progress, it's backed by a million backers, 114 million bucks, 4 studios, 300 employees, and a famous name. It has a lot of momentum, even if the acceleration has been slower than anyone wanted.

Predictions of CIG failing have come and gone for a couple years now without any merit. I'm guessing they'll just change the TOS deadline again and issue refunds to people who didn't agree to any adhesion clauses, which isn't a lot, as most backers have downloaded and agreed to the new TOS at some point since November 2014.

Basically, I'll believe it when I see it.

Edit - In b4 dsmart swooping in here to post something in capital letters and bold font about how he knows something or another, because inside sources, and proceeding to drop a link to his blog.

 

[swfanatic717]

This would be my expectation too. However on the flip side anyone who bought under those terms is entitled to a refund and the accounting if they ask for it, if the delivery is not made. CIG cannot refund because to do so would be an admittance of non delivery, so this will likely end up in lawyer land establishing whether terms and conditions have been met or not. Sadly the only losers here are the backers because their money goes in the legal cash registers rather than game development.

CIGS best response would be to offer refunds and the accounting if requested and move on. However that depends on how much impact that would have and how much is left in the coffers.

Yeah, but isn't this exactly why CR keeps Freyermuth on retainer? Journalists, rival developers, disgruntled backers, you name it, Freyermutth is like the attack dog to Chris Roberts' James Montgomery Burns.

It's really bizarre. I can't remember the last time a game development studio sicced a lawyer on some third party and was considered "the good guys" for doing so.

There is a terms of service deadline tonight at midnight.

I believe one of Derek's blogs may cover it.

Personally I'm expecting the deadline to sail peacefully by with no action or acknowledgement from/by CIG - we'll see.

This is by far the easiest thing for them to do in the short run, but you can count me pleasantly surprised if they actually deliver anything.

First, as a SC fan I feel guilty that HE came to your forum, we were thinking it was our malediction but now it is spreading

See, I wouldn't think that HIM deciding to use a different site would constitute a problem of any sort, if there weren't a swarm of angry SC fans following him everywhere he went, registering new accounts and disrupting regular traffic to either launch personal attacks at HIM or sing praises of SC and CIG in some misguided attempt to "counteract" HIM or something. I mean, without the swarm he's just one person spouting mostly drivel, one that threatens CIG's multimillion dollar operation about as much as 1600 does.

But that's just me, who knows? Could be an actual bona fide plague. And with that all said, your reminder for me to lower my standards yet again is duly noted. SC fans have told me to lower my expectations so many times that at this point I'll be happy if my computer doesn't catch fire the next time I log into the RSI website.

 

[Zyll Goliat]

I know there were/are plans for a cash for credits to speed up progress type thing.

But the idea of paying hundreds or thousands of dollars for digital goods - I'm struggling to see the general public going with that - we've become price conditioned here.

People will pay a few quid - but SC ship prices? I think they just stumbled across a unique situation here where spending that kind of cash became "the norm" - and it was fuelled by the artificial scarcity and the money to be made in the grey market.

Well....we like it or not I honestly think that this is going to be more&more popular in the future and that we just few years behind of the first "regular"jobs in games(with paid social security)....The ones that invest more time or money(or both) will expect something in return from the game...and that is not the "FUN"only as we used to expect from the "regular" games all this years....

 

[Electrofreak]

And with that all said, your reminder for me to lower my standards yet again is duly noted. SC fans have told me to lower my expectations so many times that at this point I'll be happy if my computer doesn't catch fire the next time I log into the RSI website.

I may not see eye to eye with you on this stuff, but I did almost just spit soda all over my desk.

 

[Stigbob]

Personally, I think the people predicting a "Star Citizen apocalypse" in here are sipping some pretty strong Kool-Aid. No matter what you think about the game and its progress, it's backed by a million backers, 114 million bucks, 4 studios, 300 employees, and a famous name. It has a lot of momentum, even if the acceleration has been slower than anyone wanted.

They don't have an awful lot to show for all those resources. What percentage of the 114 mil went on mo-cap for cut-scene's like we all remember from the 90's (actors, camera's, studio's, re-shoots, new camera's, another studio and then renting gollums studio).

Predictions of CIG failing have come and gone for a couple years now without any merit. I'm guessing they'll just change the TOS deadline again and issue refunds to people who didn't agree to any adhesion clauses (which isn't a lot, most backers have downloaded and agreed to the new TOS at some point since November 2014).

Predictions of the games release were equally worthless. Also "You logged in that means you've agreed to a document you didn't read, know about or confirm your agreement with" is not a real world thing.

Basically, I'll believe it when I see it.

That's my approach to the game, common ground at last.

Edit - In b4 dsmart swooping in here to post something in capital letters and bold font about how he knows something or another, because inside sources, and proceeding to drop a link to his blog.

You made it through a whole post without mentioning your nemesis, but let yourself down on the edit.

 

[Electrofreak]

Also "You logged in that means you've agreed to a document you didn't read, know about or confirm your agreement with" is not a real world thing.

It is a thing, it's called an Adhesion Contract, and in fact when TOS terms are changed, players have to scroll to the bottom and accept the terms before continuing. It's not an unusual thing.

You made it through a whole post without mentioning your nemesis, but let yourself down on the edit.

What can I say, old habits die hard.

 

[Stigbob]

It is a thing, it's called an Adhesion Contract.

That does sound like a thing CIG would try to do, however based on their track record they probably did it badly.

In the EU (where I live) we have better consumer protection legislation and regulatory bodies than America.

Even in America they are not exactly highly regarded bits of legislation "Many adhesion contracts are unconscionable; they are so unfair to the weaker party that a court will refuse to enforce them." (source Wests encyclopedia of American law).

Do you think this is a good way of attracting new customers to star citizen ?.

 

[Zyll Goliat]

Personally, I think the people predicting a "Star Citizen apocalypse" in here are sipping some pretty strong Kool-Aid. No matter what you think about the game and its progress, it's backed by a million backers, 114 million bucks, 4 studios, 300 employees, and a famous name. It has a lot of momentum, even if the acceleration has been slower than anyone wanted.

Predictions of CIG failing have come and gone for a couple years now without any merit. I'm guessing they'll just change the TOS deadline again and issue refunds to people who didn't agree to any adhesion clauses, which isn't a lot, as most backers have downloaded and agreed to the new TOS at some point since November 2014.

Basically, I'll believe it when I see it.

Edit - In b4 dsmart swooping in here to post something in capital letters and bold font about how he knows something or another, because inside sources, and proceeding to drop a link to his blog.

I for once never expected "Star Citizen Apocalypse"......but I do expect that Current Star Citizen Hyping Train is going to Wreck or shell we said the "TITANIC"will sink.....sooner&later....You may ask what's the difference?
Well you see no one stay alive when Apocalypse happened and when the Ship sinks or Train-Wreck happened there is plenty survivors most of the time...I honestly don't believe that CR is that stupid that will allow to be procecuted by many of angry backers....So eventually he will make sure to do the bare minimum of the game that ppl. backed.....CIG all ready start doing this kind of tricks(example Star marine is in the game)and they will make sure to stay clean by the law(TOS changes and so on)....I expecting SQ42(somewhere in 2017)but I don't expect to have a FUN in it...and that's my point,the game in my opinion will exist probably in the future but it will FLOP badly or in the best case scenario it will be fun to play it for few month's..Don't get me wrong I am saying this from the current perspective that I can observe atm...but...who knows maybe tomorrow aliens going to abduct CR and his famous CE engineers and replace them with the better and more improved hybrids that will menage 2 make a BDSSE.....

 

[Electrofreak]

That does sound like a thing CIG would try to do, however based on their track record they probably did it badly...

I hate to break it to you, but every time you do that whole "scroll to the bottom and click 'Agree' bit" when you register on a website or sign up for an online game you're agreeing to an adhesion contract. It's not something CIG (or most online businesses) can do without.

 

[Asp Explorer]

I wonder what's going to be in the new TOS - I don't think it's going to be anything terribly exciting though.

 

[Stigbob]

I hate to break it to you, but every time you do that whole "scroll to the bottom and click 'Agree' bit" when you register on a website or sign up for an online game you're agreeing to an adhesion contract. It's not something CIG (or most online businesses) can do without.

You agree the day you sign up, the TOS on the day you agree is the only one that applies.

"Many adhesion contracts are unconscionable; they are so unfair to the weaker party that a court will refuse to enforce them." (source Wests encyclopedia of American law).

 

[bitstorm]

Heh Total Biscuit + co currently talking about Star Citizen on co-op podcast. =p

Well actually the general topic is about fans over-investing themselves in games prior to release, more specifically related to the delaying of No Man's Sky and the resulting death threats from some of the "fanbase". But of course the conversation expands a touch talking about folks spending thousands of dollars on a game before release, literal over-investing.

 

[Electrofreak]

Heh Total Biscuit + co currently talking about Star Citizen on co-op podcast. =p

Thanks, I'll tune in. As I mentioned in a post some... I dunno, dozen or so pages back, John and I worked together as volunteers for a fan-run web radio over a decade ago. I'm interested in his opinion.

 

[Dr Wookie]

Hey Electrofreak, what do you mean old habits, you've only been here a couple of days ! Unless you have been locked in eternal conflict in a number of arenas....

Anyway, you asked a while ago about what people don't like about the SC flight model. So here's what I think. I've only played a very short amount of time, partly due to my 0.8 experience being up there with the worst gaming experiences I ever had; I was playing with a 360 game pad, left handed, with no option to rebind keys, and with manual gimballing. I might be an edge case, but it was excruciating! I also tried a free flight racer in 0.9, which was actually kinda fun, since I didn't have to fly and aim at the same time. All told I have probably played for less than 1.5 hours. I've yet to be convinced that playing later versions would be a good use of my time or bandwidth, but I think I downloaded Star Citizen 1.0 (as it was rather unwisely called).

Any how, here are my main criticisms

-- The ships had no mass or inertia. It felt like you were a kid running around with a model of your ship rather than flying a real ship. As a long time (Astro)physicist this was really grating. However, they may have solved this somewhat by substantially weakening the thrusters.

-- I was telling the ship where I wanted it to point, rather than directly choosing to pitch, yaw, or roll (or thrust). This led to further disconnection from the ship

-- seeing the ship maneuver in 3rd person just looked silly.

-- The rapid rotation in all directions meant that the only way to break line of sight was with obstacles, confining actions to small areas

-- As a bonus, the cockpits of almost all the ships are ludicrous, taking up vast amounts of real estate. I do appreciate the variety though

 

[Crawax]

See, I wouldn't think that HIM deciding to use a different site would constitute a problem of any sort, if there weren't a swarm of angry SC fans following him everywhere he went, registering new accounts and disrupting regular traffic to either launch personal attacks at HIM or sing praises of SC and CIG in some misguided attempt to "counteract" HIM or something. I mean, without the swarm he's just one person spouting mostly drivel, one that threatens CIG's multimillion dollar operation about as much as 1600 does.

And I hope you understand why there is SC fan going after him ? We gave money to CIG (and we did not bought any spaceship) so they can create a game and this guy goes everywhere and try to destroy this game with all the lie he can imagine. And because some people only take their informations from him they believe those lie (and that is not a critic, following the development of SC from the outside is an hard task), and because this game is a bit our game we find this hard to look at this and not to react. To be more precise I say that in my previous post because he is currently trying to make the ED community angry at the SC community.

Also, the main reason I came here is to give my opinion on the release of SQ42, my account on this forum may be new but I own ED since almost a year, so I feel like I am in my place here.

your reminder for me to lower my standards yet again is duly noted. SC fans have told me to lower my expectations so many times that at this point I'll be happy if my computer doesn't catch fire the next time I log into the RSI website.

I don't think you understand my point but as I say you may be following the development from the outside. The list I wrote in my post are information that we know from a long time, if you were expecting the full SQ42 to be released this year you may have misundertandd something.
You need to lower your standarts only if your standards are too hight comparing to what was annonced by CIG. Actually most of the awesome looking feature are planned for SC and not for SQ42.
What I personnaly expect is a good story, some good cinematics and some good space battle. I don't even remember is there will be FPS battle in the first episode.
About the story I am confident, about the cinematic I am confident, about the space battle I am confident but I hope it won't be 20 time the same fight against the same enemy.
Also if there is FPS fight it might not be very interesting in the first release.

In short : SQ42 could be a great game but SC is the real star.

 

[bitstorm]

Thanks, I'll tune in. As I mentioned in a post some... I dunno, dozen or so pages back, John and I worked together as volunteers for a fan-run web radio over a decade ago. I'm interested in his opinion.

It's just briefly mentioned, as I say the theme is generally about fans going a bit too far.

The utter idiocy of the NMS death threats because it's delayed. The petition to have Washington Post removed from metacritic because they dared give Uncharted 4 a 4/10 https://www.change.org/p/washington...gton-post-review-from-uncharted-4-s-metascore 9000 votes! Nutters.
Also talking about disgruntled fans being overly negative, something we see quite a bit on the ED forums with certain elements feeling they need to go on some huge anti campaign because the game does something they don't like.

Just about over-obsessive "fans" and how that can manifest in certain elements really.

 

[Rolan]

I hate to break it to you, but every time you do that whole "scroll to the bottom and click 'Agree' bit" when you register on a website or sign up for an online game you're agreeing to an adhesion contract. It's not something CIG (or most online businesses) can do without.

Yep, I remember the scroll and agree of the Blizzard games and expansions. (And I think in almost every other games I had played)

 

[Asp Explorer]

Yeah - the whole threat thing is simply unacceptable. I hope whoever they are gets a nice knock on the door from Plod, and spends some quality time as Bubba's new mattress.

 

[Electrofreak]

Hey Electrofreak, what do you mean old habits, you've only been here a couple of days ! Unless you have been locked in eternal conflict in a number of arenas....

If I'm being honest, this is pretty much me.

....Anyway, you asked a while ago about what people don't like about the SC flight model. So here's what I think. I've only played a very short amount of time, partly due to my 0.8 experience being up there with the worst gaming experiences I ever had; I was playing with a 360 game pad, left handed, with no option to rebind keys, and with manual gimballing. I might be an edge case, but it was excruciating! I also tried a free flight racer in 0.9, which was actually kinda fun, since I didn't have to fly and aim at the same time. All told I have probably played for less than 1.5 hours. I've yet to be convinced that playing later versions would be a good use of my time or bandwidth, but I think I downloaded Star Citizen 1.0 (as it was rather unwisely called).

Any how, here are my main criticisms

-- The ships had no mass or inertia. It felt like you were a kid running around with a model of your ship rather than flying a real ship. As a long time (Astro)physicist this was really grating. However, they may have solved this somewhat by substantially weakening the thrusters.

-- I was telling the ship where I wanted it to point, rather than directly choosing to pitch, yaw, or roll (or thrust). This led to further disconnection from the ship

-- seeing the ship maneuver in 3rd person just looked silly.

-- The rapid rotation in all directions meant that the only way to break line of sight was with obstacles, confining actions to small areas

-- As a bonus, the cockpits of almost all the ships are ludicrous, taking up vast amounts of real estate. I do appreciate the variety though

I did try playing with a gamepad and was hopelessly awful. But I tried the same gamepad in Elite and was also hopelessly awful. Mostly because I'm hopelessly awful with gamepads.

The mass thing seems to be the prevailing concern. Either the ships don't have enough mass, or the maneuvering thrusters have too steep an acceleration curve. I still enjoy it, but in larger ships it can be very evident.

Were you playing with mouse-look on? That's where the ship follows around your cursor. It's on by default I think (which is dumb), but it can be disabled so the ship isn't "led around" by the cursor. There's also a relative mouse mode which I haven't been able to get working to my satisfaction, but some folks swear by it.

Yeah, some of the cockpits are downright irritating; the devs seem to love to put crossbars directly in front of your face. I really think it's more that some of the ships were designed from the outside and commitments were made to the cockpit design before the UI guys got involved. I know some of them have been getting reworked, but it seems like wasted development time. There was an initial UI deployment which got quite a bit of backlash from backers as being virtually illegible, but we've seen some improvement in the last few months. Supposedly we'll see an ED-style "focus" that will help, but they definitely need to put critical information within easy view first before they get to all of that.

It's just briefly mentioned, as I say the theme is generally about fans going a bit too far.

The utter idiocy of the NMS death threats because it's delayed. The petition to have Washington Post removed from metacritic because they dared give Uncharted 4 a 4/10 https://www.change.org/p/washington...gton-post-review-from-uncharted-4-s-metascore 9000 votes! Nutters.
Also talking about disgruntled fans being overly negative, something we see quite a bit on the ED forums with certain elements feeling they need to go on some huge anti campaign because the game does something they don't like.

Just about over-obsessive "fans" and how that can manifest in certain elements really.

Thanks for the summary, I did join a little bit too late for some of that. He's right about getting obsessed with games, and it's very relevant to this discussion. I'm definitely guilty to an extent, though I maintain I'm in this more to fight the purposeful distribution of misinformation than to try to talk anyone into liking Star Citizen. Trying to change someone's mind on something over the internet is pretty pointless.