The Star Citizen Thread v 4

Status
Thread Closed: Not open for further replies.

ianw

I
bitstorm said:
Well I mean more the rebuy.

I'm thinking if you'd gone to the trouble of chargeback, and then subsequently bought back in, you'd only do that once your confidence level was high enough you knew it'd be delivered. Fool me once, shame on... shame on you. Fool me... um you can't get fooled again - sort of thing.

Or even rebuy once it's actually released (madness!). =p

But yeah I think charging back from Paypal like you say not as clear cut as with a credit card.
Click to expand...

I edited :)

Anecdotally - on the SA thread way back there comments from a poster who claimed to have got a multi thousand refund and then bought back in for multi thousands!

You can imagine the hilarity that was received with :D
 

Zyll Goliat

Zyll Goliat
Barking_Mad said:
Anyone heard anything about the new terms and conditions?
Click to expand...

I am sure they gonna keep it quiet as much as they can....so far nothing only speculation how they are going to deliver a new TOS......we guessing probably with the latest "patch" 2.4 before the install should be an option agree or refuse....
 

LastCaress

L
kilvenny said:
It is fair to say CIG have delivered something, whether that something matches up to the kickstarter and stretch goals that exist is a matter of opinion. The only real arbiter is a judge making a ruling. Till then CIG cannot refund because to do so would be setting a precedent and implying fault. Unless enough people complain or someone stumps up the cash to go direct to the courts this will bumble on as it is.

If you look at those stretch goals they are going to make interesting reading to a judge and provide plenty of scope for discussion.
Click to expand...

They have not delivered the final product, have they? In my country, I'm entitled to a refund up until 14 days after the delivery of the product that was sold, without having to provide any reason at all. This is a right that I cannot waive away.
 

Toumal

Toumal
Neo-ST said:
The answer is here.

http://i.imgur.com/jrNYjlC.jpg


So there you go guys, forget about refunds because the delivery date is subject to change, as per their ToS.
Which means, they're allowed to never release this "game" and you can't do anything about it.
Click to expand...

Well, I am not a lawyer, but I am pretty sure the argument "We've used your money, hence you are not entitled to a refund" is not a valid one.
 

bitstorm

bitstorm
Zetta said:
Don't forget that as of June 25th Paypal will not be entertaining refunds for crowdfunding platforms. If you bought via the RSI site it obviously doesn't fall under that exemption.

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/upcoming-policies-full
Click to expand...

Good reason not to use Paypal for crowdfunding. I mean you had less protection before this so shouldn't use it anyway for anything with risk like Kickstarters, less reason on June 25th.
 
Last edited:

Toumal

Toumal
Barking_Mad said:
Anyone heard anything about the new terms and conditions?
Click to expand...

I don't know what you are waiting for. The new TOS has been up for some time AFAIK, and they do not contain any deadline for delivery anymore. The question is whether they can make any claim to the effect of you having accepted the changed terms.
 

ianw

I
Toumal said:
Well, I am not a lawyer, but I am pretty sure the argument "We've used your money, hence you are not entitled to a refund" is not a valid one.
Click to expand...

That was one of the most laughable things about the whole process. You have to wonder about anyone who constructed or approved that argument.

Though given the infamous publications from the top of CIG it is hardly surprising..

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

bitstorm said:
Good reason not to use Paypal for crowdfunding. I mean you had less protection before this so shouldn't use it anyway given there's inherent risk in Kickstarters, less reason on June 25th.
Click to expand...

Lesson learned here - I only use it for very trivial purchases - anything even game sized won't get a look in now.

ETA - and crowd funding is pretty much dead to me now. Too many bad examples piling up.
 
Last edited:

lysan

lysan
Neo-ST said:
The answer is here.

http://i.imgur.com/jrNYjlC.jpg


So there you go guys, forget about refunds because the delivery date is subject to change, as per their ToS.
Which means, they're allowed to never release this "game" and you can't do anything about it.
Click to expand...

Sorry to hear that Neo, however you need to keep pushing if you want a refund. Just keep it polite and use facts.
I would also check with my bank / credit card / pay pal if you can do a charge back.

have you been playing the game for many hours? they do check your time log for sure. Being a loud mouth on the RSI forums also helps,
just don't get banned :D

Posting Support emails do not help your case, so I would just remove it before continuing.

In my case it took a long time to get it back, its was not easy, and I head all the excuses from someone was sick, then fall off a bike, then, then, then, then.........
 

Tuub t Tute

T
Toumal said:
I am pretty sure he never signed an NDA, so he can post CIG support responses all day long.
Click to expand...


I think what Lysander is meaning, is that whatever small amount of goodwill there is from CiG, will rapidly disappear if they think they are being tried in the court of public opinion.
Save everything up and write a blog after the conclusion ;)
 

Zyll Goliat

Zyll Goliat
ianw said:
It doesn't surprise me - the whole crowdfunding thing seems to be a recipe for disaster - particularly for the consumer and the payment agency in the middle.
Click to expand...

Well the crowdfunding as an idea was cool and it was working well until Infestation of the pests and parasites....
 

Dr Wookie

Dr Wookie
Zyll Goliath said:
Well the crowdfunding as an idea was cool and it was working well until Infestation of the pests and parasites....
Click to expand...

IF SC fails, it will reflect badly on CIG, rather than crowdfunding in general. They raised around 2% of their total through Kickstarter.

CIG are not a successful company until SC makes money, and CR has said repeatedly that all backer funding goes towards making the game, right? So there's ZERO profit until people buy post release. A shonky product dramatically reduces the chances of success, because most of the customers will have already bought in, and will be getting the game anyway. I think long term support for SC could be a huge problem.
 

Toumal

Toumal
Tuub t Tute said:
I think what Lysander is meaning, is that whatever small amount of goodwill there is from CiG, will rapidly disappear if they think they are being tried in the court of public opinion.
Save everything up and write a blog after the conclusion ;)
Click to expand...

I dunno if that's what he meant. After all, there were screenshots posted of another support conversation where the CIG support representative stated "since I have been informed that you're posting our conversation online..."
 

ianw

I
Dr Wookie said:
IF SC fails, it will reflect badly on CIG, rather than crowdfunding in general. They raised around 2% of their total through Kickstarter.

CIG are not a successful company until SC makes money, and CR has said repeatedly that all backer funding goes towards making the game, right? So there's ZERO profit until people buy post release. A shonky product dramatically reduces the chances of success, because most of the customers will have already bought in, and will be getting the game anyway. I think long term support for SC could be a huge problem.
Click to expand...

I'm not so sure people will differentiate between Kickstarter and post Kickstarter crowd funding - it's all the same thing - a company taking money up front without a product on the promise of delivering a product. And CIG is already touted as one of the biggest "crowd funded" games at 100 mill plus.

I agree with you about the long term prospects vis a vis a shonky product (great word).
 

Zyll Goliat

Zyll Goliat
Dr Wookie said:
IF SC fails, it will reflect badly on CIG, rather than crowdfunding in general. They raised around 2% of their total through Kickstarter.

CIG are not a successful company until SC makes money, and CR has said repeatedly that all backer funding goes towards making the game, right? So there's ZERO profit until people buy post release. A shonky product dramatically reduces the chances of success, because most of the customers will have already bought in, and will be getting the game anyway. I think long term support for SC could be a huge problem.
Click to expand...

I can see your point and I can only hope that you are generally right but in reality things are a bit different.If I just look around and see few of my friends who get involved into SC,look they didn't payed a game on KS they bought it after on the official site(same as me)but now they don't even want's to think about to support any of the other KS projects....they just claim that lesson is learned..no more....I mean they probably are not the only ones on this planet are they?
 

PiLhEaD

PiLhEaD
Barking_Mad said:
It should be mentioned that having studios across two big time zones is a significant advantage in terms of development time, if managed correctly.
Click to expand...

A tad OT, but this is not my experience of working with teams variously in US, UK, Europe, HK and Tokyo.

I think you miss too many opportunities that spring from casual and impromptue conversations that happen very easily when you're 'all in the same room'. It's very easy to fall into a 'them and us' mindset. Any sense of urgency can get diluted - e.g. if you're stuck on something at 9am GMT and need a reply from the US, then you will have to wait at best 5 hours - and if it takes them 5 hours to 'fix it', nothing gets done until the next day. Finally, and probably worst of all, cultural differences can cause issues - e.g. everyone thinks they are saying/hearing the same thing, but in reality, not.

I'm not saying these are insurmountable, but it all incurs an overhead.

To be frank, even split-site working in the UK has issues in my experience.

[/therapy]
 
Status
Thread Closed: Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom