Discuss the AI here!
- Thread starter Agony_Aunt
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Spent ther last 3 hours playing ED, haven't played since the update and being wiped out twice by the Super AI's, It looks as though FD have fixed this now, was only interdicted 3 times, all AI's that interdicted me where tougher than usual, but I managed to kill 2 of them after a fair bit of firing and manouvering but I ran from the third (Anaconda) he was bit too big for me to handle, I have all turretted beam and burst lasers, so game looks good again. The only problem I'm having is with the Missions Menu, I keep getting 'Unable to get an update mision list from the server' and the loading screen seems to take a lot longer to show the missions, but other than that the game is really a lot better than it was.
That's been the case from the very beginning! [hotas] vs [wacky]
A good solid AI algorithm is always useful in most games where you interact with the NPCS. If you take Simmy games like ArmA, the NPCS are not that easy either, there you also have the famous one shot kill! one to the head and you're dead period! I've been crawling through grass for many minutes just to avoid detection from the NPCS. When you actually accomplish a mission you feel very satisfied and good about yourself. However if the AI is just a mindless beast, the reward is so much less.
Games like the witcher do not have very clever NPCS, they are kind of just there to be harvested. However in games like the witcher, its the story that carries the game, not the AI. Simmy games like ED need a good AI, in all levels, that is what will make the world feel alive.
When we can walk at some point, good AI, like in ArmA will also be needed, and we will again have this type of discussion. A game without challenges is not a game, its just passing time. I can do that just fine by being on the forum, for free
Agreed - sometimes I think some players are completely oblivious to the diversity in player skill out there and have no sympathy for the plight of others.
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And I also wanted to say that I think it's really cool you play this with your grandson - great to see you must have a great relationship with him and that a game like this can bring you together in a game enivironment like this (any AI bugs aside).
I got knocked down a peg by that too, a lot of people dropped their wages! Was gutted! Ah well, as you said, a nice sum of cash anyway!
A lot of people are reporting bugs which are separate to the current competency of the AI, but there are some intertwining issues which combine the both of them, both flaws in the new AI (they do some real dumb stuff occasionally
Yeah true that, I have seen some stupid stuff with AI, but you know what, they seem almost human like, so I don't mind it, really funny actually. I had many a good laugh during the community run. I am not going to mention what I saw because I don't want Frontier to nerf it. It's pretty much stupid that you do every once in a while, that makes you say ! and then laugh your head off. It actually adds fun to the game, not sure if I should say that, Frontier might nerf that as well.
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Yeah I agree with this. +1000 votes from me to Enopho's Grandfather
In story driven single player games, I usually activate godmode after the learning curve peaks. Don't need the same encounter with bigger numbers to keep me entertained when there's a good narrative.
ED has no immediate story. You actually "roleplay" Han solo and his dashing stunts (and sometimes get stuck in a Farragut trying to lando calrissian it
).If this game does not put you in the pilot's seat with some obstacles ahead, it is a poor game and you're better off on a star wars marathon. (That used to be 6 hours, now it's 15 .. about the storyline length of any triple A game)
Down with "consumerism" long live "gaming"!
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A good solid AI algorithm is always useful in most games where you interact with the NPCS. If you take Simmy games like ArmA, the NPCS are not that easy either, there you also have the famous one shot kill! one to the head and you're dead period! I've been crawling through grass for many minutes just to avoid detection from the NPCS. When you actually accomplish a mission you feel very satisfied and good about yourself. However if the AI is just a mindless beast, the reward is so much less.
Games like the witcher do not have very clever NPCS, they are kind of just there to be harvested. However in games like the witcher, its the story that carries the game, not the AI. Simmy games like ED need a good AI, in all levels, that is what will make the world feel alive.
When we can walk at some point, good AI, like in ArmA will also be needed, and we will again have this type of discussion. A game without challenges is not a game, its just passing time. I can do that just fine by being on the forum, for free
I can so relate to that post!!!
People can be so narrow minded when they're given a microphone and opportunity to make demands (i.e. the Internet) but before 2.1 the AI was ridiculous, left the game in this grindy harvest fest state where ranks meant nothing but players ticking achievement boxes. When Frontier Development spoke of updating the AI, words like "unpredictable" or "challenge" would have made everyone say "Yes please!" - on paper. But now the game is a lot less of an iOS farming game and that's how they saw the game. Some hardcore ED players don't even use a HOTAS, I am surprised to see so many players in expensive ships use the mouse and keyboard and WASD their way through sweet creds and elite rank. I'm not trying to be elitist here, but if you deliberately play cards with an incomplete hand out of simplicity you should be prepared to lose or play safe, not ask everyone else to drop a card.
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indeed, and this is my fear for star citizen .. I have a full hotas set up and yet in SC I still feel KB/M is the most effective way to play, and that is just not right for a game in a cockpit.... otherwise our avatars in the ship should be using a kb/m and not a stick
there is a reason why NO flight game shows the avatar using a KB/M, just like no planes use them for actual controls.
I wouldn't say that it was ridiculous. It was adequate, a place holder. It gave the players something to shoot at and still allowed players to have fun. But Elite has always been a work in progress and some areas get revisited to give them the more care and attention.
What people don't understand about AI is that it's a problem of scalability. You can create AI for a simple task or environment and see it adapt quite successfully to that. Most people then make the mistake of thinking that the same program can scale up to be generally useful in the real world and that human level intelligence is just around the corner.
The problem is that as the environment becomes more complicated the number of situations to adapt to grows exponentially. Traditional programming falls down at this point because you cannot specify what to do in every situation. Even with a simple environment like two ships in empty space with a finite set of controls, there are many, many ways that a human opponent can fly.
Now consider how the Elite universe is growing more complex with each update. There are many different ships, each one equipped differently. And now there are engineering mods. Some ships are wanted, some are clean. Ships are flown by pilots of different skills levels who each prefer different methods of flying (e.g backwards, getting behind their opponent, jousting etc). There are asteroid fields, space stations, planet surfaces, debris fields and open space.
It wouldn't be practical to specify what to do in every situation, there are too many permutations. You'd need to write code that could generalise over many different situations by adapting to features common to all situations. But what this means is that there can be unintended consequences. So for example, you could write code to have your NPC always try to avoid having someone get behind them only to find that they then crash into an asteroid. As a human we might recognise this impending situation and come up with an idea to boost out of the field in a straight line, FA off and flip to point in the opposite direction of travel, but it would have to be sophisticated AI to figure that one out from base principles.
In the future they probably wouldn't use a joystick either, we associate it with flight is why you'll always see footage of joysticks in cockpit - a mouse/KB would look ridiculous!
However I would dispute the HOTAS as the best control method, at the end of the day its your own familiarity with the controls that gets the job done, most hotas users have excellent throttle control and steering like a missile, but bad thruster control and wobbly aim caused by joystick deadzone.
On the opposite side of that most mouse users don't blue-zone effectively in combat because they are too busy thinking about other things so suffer in that department, basically bad throttle management.
The best users of both overcome all the drawbacks and you really can't distinguish between them, Its fairly easy to spot in a video for example when you know what to look for but the better the player the harder it is to distinguish until you just can't tell.
In Star Trek they just use a touch screen!
When I came back from an exploration trip I decided to move from a single HOTAS to two of them. I was still getting used to the set up when I decided to see what I was like in PvP. I had my Asp handed to me on my second attempt. Chatting to the guy afterwards I was amazed to find that he used a keyboard and mouse.
Overtime things started to make more sense. My poor throttle control was really hurting me, and this was because I had moved to using the hat on my second joystick rather than the slider on my first joystick. So it was like using a keyboard. That meant paying attention to the blue zone.
Since then using two joysticks I've had to start mapping many functions to the multitude of buttons at my disposal rather than let go and reach for the keyboard. Not a problem for keyboard users.
The more I thought about it the more I started to see the use of a keyboard and mouse. Not that I have ever used it in practice. All the controls are literally at your finger tips. I never made any use of lateral / vertical thrusters and FA off when I used a single HOTAS.
I assume that it would be easier to aim with a mouse. There's a reason you don't use a joystick for Counter strike for example. And I'm thinking that this could also allow you to have FA off all the time.
On the opposite side of that most mouse users don't blue-zone effectively in combat because they are too busy thinking about other things so suffer in that department, basically bad throttle management.
The best users of both overcome all the drawbacks and you really can't distinguish between them, Its fairly easy to spot in a video for example when you know what to look for but the better the player the harder it is to distinguish until you just can't tell.[/QUOTE]
Dunno about m+k but you don't need a Hotas, doing fine with a controller be it against any kind of npcs we had so far or CQC. Never blame the tool!
Mods - could we do a poll for who would want to see the game with ZERO npc interdictions? Can't see how I can do one.
Firstly I'm curious just how large a segment of players that is, and secondly it seems a good springboard to get FD to comment more clearly on what kind of game they are aiming for such that people can understand. A lot of this disruption and upset seems to come from a degree of misunderstanding over what's going on and what the original games played like.
Firstly I'm curious just how large a segment of players that is, and secondly it seems a good springboard to get FD to comment more clearly on what kind of game they are aiming for such that people can understand. A lot of this disruption and upset seems to come from a degree of misunderstanding over what's going on and what the original games played like.
Really, though? The spinning ballerinas in RES sites were not adequate or fun.
Whilst it's clear that one-shot death NPCs are symptomatic of some bugs that need squashing, and it's probably not reasonable that every NPC carries a wide range of Engineer kit - the new tactics and responses from the AI have been an excellent and thoroughly overdue development. I really, really hate the thought of going back to a bullet-sponge universe of no tangible threat. Because that's what it was, for a long time.
Robert Maynard
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You should get the option to create a poll when creating a thread - if you really want to ask the question that is....
I didn't get the option on the new thread page, but maybe it is for the best!
I might have to spam the launch trailer on these threads.
Yeah you have to skim through most of the bluster and bull and pick out the pertinent points. Frustrating ain't it?
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