When will NPC play by the same rules than player ?

[CMDR Mini]

I am tired of this.

First, when you have a haul there is something like 75% chance a NPC is waiting you in SC. This is very annoying when you try to do missions or collect mats. There is NO point to fight them, they drop the same crap than every others ships in RES, pay nothing and are harder.

Second, they seem to have some kind of superpower. Like dropping instantly next to you if you go out SC. Just happened now, I was interdicting a mission target, I won the interdiction but I saw a Conda trying to interdict me. When I dropped, my target wasn't here but the Conda was.

Is FD planning to do something about these NPC in SC ? They are just annoying, and it's faster to log out and relog until there is none to be able to play correctly.

 

[Agent2090]

It's one aspect of what people call "artificial difficulty". Instead of actually making the game difficult, they just have the AI cheat.

Nothing more "difficult" than being chased by a Vulture across distances I could never jump in one.

I actually wouldn't have a problem with how easily the AI destroys me now, if they only played constrained by the same limitations I'm set to.

 

[the100thmonkey]

You both have had a very different experience from mine; I've honestly never seen this happen. I'm not saying that it hasn't happened to you. I do wonder what's going on though when other players have such radically different experiences from me.

 

[Minoo Minou]

You both have had a very different experience from mine; I've honestly never seen this happen. I'm not saying that it hasn't happened to you. I do wonder what's going on though when other players have such radically different experiences from me.

I'm wondering the same thing. 75%? Really? I'm running dozens of missions while carrying haul and I don't really get interdicted, like barely. And when it happens it's usually not a big threat.

 

[audiodistortion]

I'm hounded by Elite NPC bounty hunters over 26k.

FDL's and Conda's mostly, I get the "Great, a high value target" message before they even appear on the sensor (so when did they scan me?)

Annoying.

 

[CMDR Mini]

I'm wondering the same thing. 75%? Really? I'm running dozens of missions while carrying haul and I don't really get interdicted, like barely. And when it happens it's usually not a big threat.

Mh, maybe it's is related to combat rank ?
I am Elite Btw.

I'm hounded by Elite NPC bounty hunters over 26k.

FDL's and Conda's mostly, I get the "Great, a high value target" message before they even appear on the sensor (so when did they scan me?)

Annoying.

Yeah, same for me except it's something like "uh big haul"... Yeah of course, you are a Elite Conda NPC and want my 4 Modular Terminal ?

 

[Codger]

Hi Mini. Love your videos. Yes there is certainly something going on with interdictions since 2.1 arrived. Many people are encountering problems. One guy was winged up with his wife, and she bugged out when her shields went down. When she went back to normal space, the SAME npc that HE was still fighting, with the same name and hull damage, showed up in her instance too. So it cloned itself and attacked them both.

Others are suffering chain interdictions by NPCs that magically heal between fights, back to full hull and shields, and jump impossible distances to just suddenly show up next to the player.

There's an issue in the bug section about all this. Please add your feedback.

Hope it gets sorted soon.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=257889

 

[Pumabear8]

Yeah, I've had them just pop in next to me while in super cruise, I've now taken to rolling and crazy maneuvers in an attempt to stop them getting in behind, and not always successfully, some times they appear to interdict out of nowhere

 

[CMDR Mini]

You probably mistake me with somebody else, I don't do video

Another annoying fact, when I manage to interdict a target and a chasing NPC was in SC, he will always drop in the instance after about 10 seconds. No matter how far he was, no matter how long it is for a player to do this, NPC jump in your signal in 10 seconds, come on !

 

[Daniel Cloudsifter]

I am tired of this.

First, when you have a haul there is something like 75% chance a NPC is waiting you in SC. This is very annoying when you try to do missions or collect mats. There is NO point to fight them, they drop the same crap than every others ships in RES, pay nothing and are harder.

Second, they seem to have some kind of superpower. Like dropping instantly next to you if you go out SC. Just happened now, I was interdicting a mission target, I won the interdiction but I saw a Conda trying to interdict me. When I dropped, my target wasn't here but the Conda was.

Is FD planning to do something about these NPC in SC ? They are just annoying, and it's faster to log out and relog until there is none to be able to play correctly.

I don't agree with the 75% you cite - not saying this isn't true for you, it's just not that frequent for me - but the rest I can attest to personally. It's also a pre-2.1 problem, though the new AI/engineering buffs make it worse now.

If you stay in a system (i.e. escape to supercruise rather than jump to another system), the enemy never gives up. You have about 2 seconds of supercruise time before they message you about your "big haul" again and then once again interdict you. Doesn't matter if you submitted to the interdiction, boosted away, and jumped (which should give a 15 second window). Doesn't matter that they weren't even charging their drive as you were jumping out (no warning, they're targeted as you flee). Doesn't even matter if they were tied up with System Authority vessels who jumped in to help. They will keep coming back after you until you either give up/die, you beat their interdiction, or you quickly log out the moment you enter supercruise (and thus, don't have the 15 second logout timer for "ship in danger"). I hate doing the last option, but my A-rated Python is still a slug in supercruise when it comes to breaking an interdiction. Pre-2.1 I only had to worry about this situation when I wasn't in an a-rated ship. Now I have to worry all the time - I only get interdicted by Dangerous (or higher) FDLs and FAS any more.

I can also vouch for the system to system pursuit that shouldn't happen, but only for 2.0. My Asp is jumping 25 ly at a time, and the same guys (in Vultures and Viper Mk IIIs) are showing up right after me again and again? How? Did their employer give them the required mats to synthesize a bunch of 100% FSD boosts? If so, who do they work for and how do I get in on that action?

This is the only frustrating thing for me in the game. If I die because I chose to fight instead of run, fine. If I die because I'm outclassed and didn't run fast enough, fine. But if I know I'm going to die if I fight, I run, and then just keep pulling me out of supercruise, with no chance to get away... yeah, I'm logging. I will match their cheating with my own.

 

[Mark Lock]

I am tired of this.

First, when you have a haul there is something like 75% chance a NPC is waiting you in SC. This is very annoying when you try to do missions or collect mats. There is NO point to fight them, they drop the same crap than every others ships in RES, pay nothing and are harder.

Second, they seem to have some kind of superpower. Like dropping instantly next to you if you go out SC. Just happened now, I was interdicting a mission target, I won the interdiction but I saw a Conda trying to interdict me. When I dropped, my target wasn't here but the Conda was.

Is FD planning to do something about these NPC in SC ? They are just annoying, and it's faster to log out and relog until there is none to be able to play correctly.

You are having bad luck, it only happened to me once an Anaconda was stalking me but yes it's annoying, interdictions should be changed and also how fast police intervenes should be toned down, however as I said, just you are having bad luck, it only happened to me one mission where Police was stalking me but I had a lot of missions without any problem other than police intervention being too fast, sometimes I have to escape cause target + wing can be beaten but if you add police it becomes annoying, very often I have to escape or get blown up cause of that .

 

[CiZerin]

Yeah, I've had them just pop in next to me while in super cruise, I've now taken to rolling and crazy maneuvers in an attempt to stop them getting in behind, and not always successfully, some times they appear to interdict out of nowhere

Idk wut 're ya talking 'bout
On FDS I use only one maneuver: reverse turn on boost and shoot 'em in face. If they get to me I do reverse boost kiting in another way. Repeat to win. New AI is dump. Without Engineer buffs he is hopeless.

 

[Earth Ultimatum IV.]

NPCs will never play by the same rules as the player:

-NPCs don't care about rebuy screens - they can fight for death without consequences

-NPCs don't have to progress - they get everything they want for free, they don't need to make profit, they don't need to play the game.

-NPCs don't have real life - their game isn't affected by their playtime, they don't care about grind and profitability, travel times or amount of their kills.


NPCs should always be inferior to players, at least by a slight bit, period.

 

[Ouberos]

Interdiction avoidance is a skill you can learn.

I'm not saying the Ai doesn't cheat (been caught out a couple of times by long jumping combat ships) but I have a couple of tactics I use which work ok.

Having said that when I am caught it's a case of boost past them, FA off turn, engage, weigh up my options then either destroy them or retract hard points and make like a shepherd. *

I know this gets said a lot but it does work, I have several bounties and am actively being hunted. Haven't died yet in 2.1. Loving it.

*get the flock out of there!

 

[Commander Debic]

I'm hounded by Elite NPC bounty hunters over 26k.

FDL's and Conda's mostly, I get the "Great, a high value target" message before they even appear on the sensor (so when did they scan me?)

Annoying.

I used to get occasionally interdicted when trading but it was nothing I couldn't handle in a Conda, but yesterday I was interdicted by a single ship while running back to an engineer with mission items. They were 3 in number and rares. The object of the mission was to donate these items so the engineer could give me the lowest grade of FSD improvement, if of course the RNG fell lucky for me.

Anyway this single ship pulled me out of SC almost instantaneously, and as I locked and loaded to deal with it, 5 or 6, what seemed like heavily armed Conda's appeared, stripped my shields in approximately 3 secs before I pulled the connection. Upon reconnecting I found myself half health down and went on with my journey. The speed and firepower of these other ships leads me to believe their own visits to the engineers allowed them top power units, weaponry and scanning/interdiction equipment in just days after 2.1 dropped,

My own efforts after making the delayed donation to the engineer of the rare items has resulted in me spending endless hours fruitlessly scanning High wakes looking for the data she wants. I have many Data, all different from the one she needs, so it seems the NPC's are programmed to heavy cheating into top range gear probably with no requirements like players.

Do I feel bad that I disconected to avoid certain death and loss of a very difficult to obtain 3 rare items, no, and would I do it again if I was on my way back to the engineer concerned with my near impossible Data item, you bet I would. If FD can use lazy RNG and lazy overpowered godlike ships, instead of good programming skills, for NPC's to cheat me out of what is an almost impossible task anyway then I will find my own way through the game. Which anyway will now probably mean for me the engineers and their mods can go take a hike.

 

[myrr mac]

I have to wonder, you know... all these people saying how great the AI is in this game.

It really isnt that impressive to "code godlike AI", if it cheats at a bunch of different things.

Whats "for sure", and whats "strongly suspected" ?

Cheats with FSD : for sure
Cheats with interdiction mechanics : strongly suspected?
Cheats with entering/exiting SC : for sure
Cheats with scanning / reason to attack: for sure
Cheats with turn speed : strongly suspected.
Cheats with ammo : for sure
Cheats with heat : for sure
Cheats with rate of fire : for sure (probably unintentional)

What else, pips? General maneuverability? Damage? Hull? Shields? Anyone got experiences to share?

As someone coming back to the game after a long break, I dont really understand why everyone seems to be praising the skill of the AI programmer. Creating Ai that can beat up players by cheating is.. standard and unremarkable for games.

 

[Mighty Dangerous]

Combat rank shouldn't affect amount of interdictions, if it does that's not good.
Interdictions should be for a reason, ie you've done something and the more things you've done the more interdictions you get even if you don't realise what you've done.

I have seen what the OP describes quite a few times.
I've also chased npc's who have maintained their current state on changing instances.
So I've seen it working and not working.

Ships can drop in your wake very easily with spot on timing and they always seem to have a high class/rated interdictor module.
So yeah there is some problems with it.

 

[MottiKhan]

All NPCs cheat by design. They have to. Humans have the ability to pick out patterns and adapt. It's our greatest strength and advantage over any AI. Even when the coders re-write the AI, we can adapt again. It happens in all games.

The AI's only defense to remain competitive is to cheat. We should expect it, but it's always nice when it's subtle. I'm sure we've all seen the blatant cheating in ED's AI, but it's getting better. Now that SJA is back on it, we have hope of a better future.

 

[Shadowdancer]

Did any of you even try to read the couple big posts about the current NPC/AI issues?