Gah, this is a lot to read through. I voted leave it at 15 secs, but with the caveat that getting hit by weapon fire will throw you back in the game. This always worked well for other games in the past. Also, maybe some education on how high wake is a simple effective way to get out of a fight, and probably quicker than the menu countdown. If you need to get out of the game quickly, select a near system, power up and turn towards it. Presuming the hyperspace doesn't get stuck, then you can exit the game right away once you're at the star. And, it's the most legit way of quick escape.
Poll about exit-to-menu delay time
- Thread starter Kyokushin
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guess it's not a full on PvP game
as people have been telling you for a long long long time now.
you try avoiding a bounty in solo
But you didn't state any argument - you just claimed things were facts Pups...
You state as if for all the world you were at all significant that people who don't want to get pirated/destroyed or interact with others should go to pg/solo.
You give no reason, you give no explanation.
Why do you deserve one back from me? At some point you need to figure this stuff out for yourself - I'm not explaining it all for you, tried you don't listen then refer people back to your document thread which if they would only read and be capable of understanding they'd realise you're right etc.
If you can explain why people should be forced to just sit there and do something they hate that they are in no way enjoying despite having paid money for it simply because YOU enjoy it then let's dance. Check the tea video first though.
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No, the game isn't just PvP, but currently the log out system is disenfranchising PvP.
Strawman.
Your own description already defeated your argument.
You must either be legally blind or pretending that you can't read.
When you don't read said document and make complete contrary claims, of course you didn't read, or you pretend to be able to read.
Oh you mean those people that sit in the empty instance and stare at where a ship magically vanished despite they paid money for it to not be so and some people seem to enjoy seeing that?
Yea, it certainly demands an explanation that cannot be given unless it disenfranchise a legitimate type of game play.
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A recent poll suggests that a huge volume (majority of anyone that cared to vote) agreed with your general attitude towards piracy, GF... Credit and cudos where credit and cudos is deserved!
Perhaps this whole combat logging thing, and this whole thread thing should be irrelevant to piracy in general......
Perhaps FDEV's attitude and the players attitude towards actual piracy is wrong in general. What if, piracy was more of a passive PvP experience in general? I mean, if a one-shot limpet of xyz size did an instant effect of ejecting x number of units from the inventory of the other ship, but in return the other ship has a 'surge' in shield capacity which means for the next 20s or so, their shields took a boost in capacity ensuring their escape. Then piracy would not be considered pewpew, and said victims would know they're fine, and as such combat logging etc would be a moot point. It could even work in a PvE environment to, since weapons aren't used, nor would they be effective if they were (or if there was an OPEN PvE server, this system would still work).
I really don't want honorable pirates to be affected by menu log off, or combat logging. The limpet thing needs to be instant so at least if you got a shot off, then it's done. If the other player goes 'puff' they'd at least leave something for your trouble. Cant see anyone having a problem with a no 'insurance' screen pirate encounter like that.
Anyway on topic, still think the only people that are likely to complain hard will be those that have an addiction to kablooey. GF excluded, and we generally know logging of any kind does break the current mechanics of 'piracy' and many many people voted his ethics as being sound.
PS just got back from work, and wow has this thread expanded since this morning
PPS I'd still combat log and face FDEV consequence than waiting 60s for a log out timer
I really wish it was irrelevant, but unfortunately it's extremely relevant.
*sigh*
...i'll skip your document - i did read it. putting a quote at the top fools no one past high school. let's leave it languishing where it is.
You didn't buy a game where you get to force people to do things they hate and they don't enjoy.
STILL end of story. Maybe accept it now if you don't have an argument for why they should?
claiming things were facts - dictating what the modes are for - this doesn't appear to be a strawman - this is actually your quote. but.... you're not the developer? you're just some lad who bought a copy of the game right?
This is just a joke not reasoning of any kind - and yes actually, people are free to decide not to talk to you. It's called free will - and people deserve it whether you decide they do or not. THIS IS A GAME - WE ARE KIDS RUNNING AROUND WITH ARMS OUTSTRETCHED SHOUTING PEW PEW AND LOOK I FOUND ALIENS. If people don't want to play they won't - they've not signed a contract with you.
...i'll skip your document - i did read it. putting a quote at the top fools no one past high school. let's leave it languishing where it is.
You didn't buy a game where you get to force people to do things they hate and they don't enjoy.
STILL end of story. Maybe accept it now if you don't have an argument for why they should?
It's impossible for me to disagree with your general defense of piracy, as I was one that agreed with your creed of piracy ethics.
truly I wish that combat logging or menu logging didn't affect piracy, it's the only real legitimate grievance against such an action. The whole kablooey argument is just baiting (as it seems the first half of the thread was about 'if you log then i want to kill you for it')..
Forcing someone's ship to stay (even if empty) in space after the player disconnects, or forcing 60s is still just baiting combat logging even further. It's simply just counter-productive on many angles.
GluttonyFang said:
You read, yes? But of course no.
It's an exaggeration.
Why is it that people are entering a mode where this "interaction" is expected to happen? Private mode/solo give the option for people to be selective.
Chatting obviously isn't much cause to harm, but to escape via out of game mechanic when an actual interaction is engaged is disrespectful for the simple reason that the mechanic of the game would be broken if this escape is breaks the mechanic, which it currently does.
It's called an introduction, perhaps you have not read much sophisticated work? Oh look, I can write unproductive statements, too, what a surprise.
Btw, third time now, going to do something else the next time.
GluttonyFang said:
Oh look, dodging the argument?
Maybe people play in open so they can play with other people? I'm not sure a single soul is bothered about how much respect you think you deserve sadly - that's just their call, you or I have no say over it.
I can see why your name is feared. Look report me to a mod if you feel like it - but if you're going to keep stating nonsense facts about what people are or are not allowed to do in different game modes and then insist people should have to put up with whatever you feel like doing to them I'm going to keep popping up to point out you're wrong and being infantile about a game.
ps.
Sorry, the slip and slide isn't fun. If you don't have an answer let's just leave it.
Well it's what some folk think a sophisticated work looks like. I'm quaking in my shoes. SO let me get this right.... you should be allowed to pirate someone and force them to put up with it no matter how miserable it makes them - but if I point out your 'great document' reads like it was knocked up in a few days by someone young you're going to tell on me?
I can see why your name is feared. Look report me to a mod if you feel like it - but if you're going to keep stating nonsense facts about what people are or are not allowed to do in different game modes and then insist people should have to put up with whatever you feel like doing to them I'm going to keep popping up to point out you're wrong and being infantile about a game.
ps.
No, just giving up as you clearly don't have an answer to the question and seem to genuinely think that because you bought a game where you get to play pirate that people should be forced by the devs to line up for you to play with.
Sorry, the slip and slide isn't fun. If you don't have an answer let's just leave it.
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It's the respect all that choose to play Open deserves, throwing a tantrum by using safe exit to leave the game simply due to things being disadvantageous but legitimate is childish at best.
Open is where all legitimate game play come together, otherwise there's nothing Open about it other than rampant combat logging left and right.
Keep quaking, it's healthy for you.
Pirating players in Open mode is legitimate game play, an in-game activity. You insulting other people's writing and continuous use of personal arguments for simply disagreeing with it without providing any thorough critique is called being disruptive and inflammatory, the difference is clear.
The only thing "infantile" here is your inability to tolerate other game play (not play style) other than the ones you acknowledge to be legitimate.
Again, no arguments, just random derailing, it's amusement for me, if you wish to continue, by all means go ahead.
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PPS I'd still combat log and face FDEV consequence than waiting 60s for a log out timer
This is really the problem I have with just increasing the timer. It's not going to stop people killing the client, it will probably encourage it as people get frustrated watching it count down. The timer as it is is short enough to signal that it's not a normal mode of play, that something is going on to restrict you. And having shots hit you kick you back to the game, that encourages some interactivity past just waiting. Sure, some will still disconnect anyway, but some won't.
Er, no, quite wrong, you paid money for a game, you didn't pay money for players.
That would be prostitution.
Players are optional. No guarantees that your online experience will be the same as advertised.
Get over yourself.
Asking for functional multiplayer professions isn't prostitution, it's asking for a working game that claims to be a MMO to fix its broken professions.
"Get over yourself."
How productive indeed, and people wonder why mud slinging starts.
That's not what I said. I have no problem with functional multiplayer professions.
Go Pirate some npcs.
You're sense of entitlement for players to Pirate from is unfortunate, but not an argument for increasing or changing the legitimate exit to menu function.
Don't you play in a large pvp focused group? Where's all your pvp friends that want to play with you? Can't you all take turns at being pirates and willing victims? You keep telling everyone else that being a victim is fun.
It's not everyone else problem if you feel entitled to play with every single person playing this game.
Get over yourself.
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Why do people get twisted up in GF's wordnado? He says the players should respect the fact that some playstyles need cooperation to be complete. GF is looking to spend his time pursuing other players goods, and for those that take up play in open to respect the push and pull the food cycle requires. I can totally sympathize.
The fact remains, no one want to be the victim. No one, well not enough lets say, wants to be the sucker out the profit. Along with that natural inclination come this strange stigma put on players that don;t care for open. The assumption that open is the true path, and everything else is some admission of lesser ability and/or status. Post after post, comment after comment labels the Solo/Group player as inferior, some how lacking. Rather than the overaggressive and tricksee labels that come with the open only player. Labels more comfortable worn by a bunch of gamers.
This loss aversion, and keeping up appearances causes players to play in open, until a threat arrives. They can say 'Oh yeah I play in open' to their in-game friends, while still being unwilling to cough up loot, or die for another's gaming experience. Take it as it is, this is what we have. Timers, and splitting hairs about what is and what isn't CL'ing only serves to foster this gap.
REmove the stigma. Accept that all play styles and environments are valid and necessary for a healthy game, and maybe players will feel comfortable playing where they like. Removing that false hope, which is worse than no hope, of having willing Commanders in open, ready to go the distance.
The fact remains, no one want to be the victim. No one, well not enough lets say, wants to be the sucker out the profit. Along with that natural inclination come this strange stigma put on players that don;t care for open. The assumption that open is the true path, and everything else is some admission of lesser ability and/or status. Post after post, comment after comment labels the Solo/Group player as inferior, some how lacking. Rather than the overaggressive and tricksee labels that come with the open only player. Labels more comfortable worn by a bunch of gamers.
This loss aversion, and keeping up appearances causes players to play in open, until a threat arrives. They can say 'Oh yeah I play in open' to their in-game friends, while still being unwilling to cough up loot, or die for another's gaming experience. Take it as it is, this is what we have. Timers, and splitting hairs about what is and what isn't CL'ing only serves to foster this gap.
REmove the stigma. Accept that all play styles and environments are valid and necessary for a healthy game, and maybe players will feel comfortable playing where they like. Removing that false hope, which is worse than no hope, of having willing Commanders in open, ready to go the distance.
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I guess that all depends on what you're planning to do with the player, though I do agree "players" sounds so much more fun.
All I'm gonna say on this is "Don't log kids" and grow a pair. Sometimes you just have to suck it up and this relates to both solo and open.
No changes are gonna make a bit of difference to the core issue, that some humans are weak and others are bullies.
Welcome to your "humanity" and your natural, destructive nature.
It's not entitlement, it's the respect all players choose open deserves because it's a conscious decision to interact with all potential legitimate game play, piracy is one of them.
It's an argument for increasing legitimate exit because people use it to avoid piracy, and that's not okay because breaks the multiplayer aspect of the profession.
Clearly you're not aware of my involvement in the PvP League/1v1 League then? Oh look, lack of research.
Because that isn't piracy, it's begging between friends since it requires the explicit consent of the victim party to extract cargo/interact. Piracy is acquiescence, legitimized by the game.
Strawman, only those that play in Open.
Yes, please get over yourself, since you're not strengthening your argument with that attitude.
This. 10000 times this.
IF someone dont WANT to play with the gakers/griefers/pirates/whatever then te 60 sec timer will simply increase the Combat log count by one. And personally i dont see a problem with that. You can only get people that are inexperenced enough to log instead of highwake anyway. So if all you want to see is the pretty explosion without the remote chance to ever get hurt: you were rightfully logged at. If you were in a fight with an equal player and he logs after it goes south: so he was below your class anyway. Get over it. And for the "logging breaks priracy": Nobody said piracy should be easy or even profitable. You can do it in game, thats enough to fulfil the promise that its possible.
Glutty dear pup I gave you critique. It's in your personal special thread, people can go there if they want to discuss a game rewrite.
Pirating players relies on others being willing to be pirated by you.
It appears they are not. Luckily you can still be a pirate just as I can still do everything I want in the game.
Ah..... this is coming from the adult who put people on their KoS list for posting asking if it was acceptable or not to use the quit function, and then got all mardy when FDev had to chime in to remind you that it's an accepted legal exit? Totally see what you mean there.
It's not derailing. it's trying to get through to you that you're not always right and you don't get to decide how other people play, no matter how much loaded language you use to denigrate their decisions or whatever superiority you claim. They have as much right to enjoy the game as you do. I tolerate you playing however you like, and you'll have to tolerate other people playing how they like - which is where the problem lies.
What is in discussion here is piracy, the reputation and declaration proposal are very easy to implement since they use in-game assets. There is one thread currently about improving piracy UI and declaration on piracy already, and it's very simply and easily accomplished.
That's not piracy, that's begging. Entering Open mode means people accept the encounter of all legitimate game play, let that be piracy, bounty hunting, or cooperation.
Except the mechanic I'm working with is broken. You can hardly call me a pirate when people can just exit on me without suffering any consequences.
That thread was a confusing one, at first it appeared that the OP was logging on a Conda from the attack of a FDL, then the OP clarified himself and confessed that it wasn't done to frustrate anyone and he/she personally said that he'll refrain from doing so onward after our discussion, then I removed him from several KoS lists because of his humility.
What's funny is that you constantly fail to realize that criticism completely backfires/is hypocritical when you give no reasonable argument to maintain otherwise while respecting all legitimate game play.
People aren't tolerating the way I play the game because they log on me, in Open mode.
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