A friendly suggestion to modify the Engineers demands

[rain_walker]

you just put all the things you want behind the only thing you do and money. and the thing you don't want(or who dosen't exist) behind thing that you don't want to do....

and why bounty hunting? why not mission? if someone is combat oriented but only want to do mission or combat zone? is he forced to play a bounty hunter too?

i just wrote 5 different ways to get upgrades. how did u get only money and combat ?
its not that hard..
more mining for mining upgrades
more trading for trading upgrades
more combat for weapons
more exploring for FSD upgrades
more smuggling for stealth upgrades
and money for the common elements upgrades between all these trades

its as simple as that..

 

[znôrt]

No one "forces" you to combat ships or scoop stuff from planets or complete misssions. Engineer system is designed to reward people doing lot of various things. People playing specific role will feel forced...but no one forces you. Don't do Engineers. Simple.

the whole point of "engineers" was ship customization, not easter egg hunting.

i'm not at all upset by current state but it's a reasonable claim. so what you're saying is much like 'no one forces you to play the game at all'.

 

[rain_walker]

the whole point of "engineers" was ship customization, not easter egg hunting.

i'm not at all upset by current state but it's a reasonable claim. so what you're saying is much like 'no one forces you to play the game at all'.

its the same with PP, CQC and now this. U dont have to play it if u dont like it. no one knows how many of these we gona get. I mean we did wait 6 months for the engineers only to not take part in it.

 

[MadDogMurdock]

Different gameplay offering unique rewards isn't exactly unusual.
At least you get to decide when to do it or whether to bother at all.

Think of that mining for 1 Praesodymium that'll likely take all of a couple of hours as ED Chocobo Racing.

 

[SledgeFox]

Since ED whole slogan is "Blaze your own trail" instead of collecting materials and forcing ppl into mini games they dont want to play here is my suggestion:

- to get FSD upgrades i.e. Explorers
- Grade 1 10 system scans L1
- Grade 2 30 system scans L1 - 5 planets scan L2
- Grade 3 50 system scans L1 - 10 planets scan L2
- Grade 4 100 system scans L1- 20 planets scan L2 - 5 moons scan L3
- Grade 5 500 system scans L1 - 50 planets scan L2 - 25 moons scan L3

- to get weapon upgrades . i.e. bounty hunters
- Grade 1 100.000 cr bounty
- Grade 2 500.000 cr bounty
- Grade 3 1.000.000 cr bounty
- Grade 4 5.000.000 bounty and 5 Python or clipper (elite level)
- Grade 5 10.000.000 bounty and 10 anaconda or higher (elite level)

and so on.. this way everyone get the upgrades he needs playing the game he want. What do u think?

This is a very good suggestion, well worth to be considered. It would have saved me 4 hours yesterday, driving over 3 planets looking for Arsenic without any clue, what planet to look for it. I tried high metal content planets. Finally I found 5 Arsenic on the planet ObsidianAnt was kind enough to hint to in his video.

Thank you, rain_walker for your idea! Rep added.

 

[Vasious]

But if you dont bounty hunt or ur not a pirate why would u upgrade your weapons ? explorers dont use weapons, Miners dont, Traders dont.

Stop telling me how to Blaze my own trail by what I should and should not equip, use and upgrade thank you very much.
I do like to be able to defend myself

 

[Holven]

While I see your point, I also think I know why it was made the way it was.

They don't want getting these upgrades to be easy, nor enjoyable. The upgrades are not meant to be too common, not to be something everyone have everything of. Getting the upgrades seems to be made to be an achievement, as they will grant advantage.

Likewise, those that don't have combat as their primary interest, yet do need to have the same mods to survive PvP attacks, would just become even easier prey, since they would have problems fighting their way to the mods they need.

The current solution means it is more of an equal opportunity, but difficult, trying to keep it balanced, trying to keep weapon mods from only being in the hands of the fighters.

And any explorer/trader that fly around without weapons/shields with this new AI, will not last long. I am very happy I am out exploring with a combat fitted ship, so that I might actually survive running into stuff when I return to turn in the data.

I think the entire combination of harder AI/engineer mods was basically introduced to both make it less desirable to fly around unarmed, as well as giving fighters more enjoyable enemies, perhaps reducing Weapons Wielder versus Trade Turtle a bit.

Who knows? With AI being more dangerous now, at the top levels even performing much like human players, perhaps more people will dare to come back to Open as they gain experience, making the galaxy more vibrant.

No. Grind your chosen profession and nothing else is a terrible choice for unlocking top tier equipment. It would only cause further segregation instead of further inclusion.

 

[rain_walker]

Different gameplay offering unique rewards isn't exactly unusual.
At least you get to decide when to do it or whether to bother at all.

Think of that mining for 1 Praesodymium that'll likely take all of a couple of hours as ED Chocobo Racing.

Im all for different gameplay i know i did do bit of all. But i cant enjoy 4 hours of driving around looking for materials. can u honestly enjoy that ? I mean its not like its gona get that material while u normally play ur normal game would it ?

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This is a very good suggestion, well worth to be considered. It would have saved me 4 hours yesterday, driving over 3 planets looking for Arsenic without any clue, what planet to look for it. I tried high metal content planets. Finally I found 5 Arsenic on the planet ObsidianAnt was kind enough to hint to in his video.

Thank you, rain_walker for your idea! Rep added.

Thank you ^_^ glad u liked it.

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Stop telling me how to Blaze my own trail by what I should and should not equip, use and upgrade thank you very much.
I do like to be able to defend myself

lol relax im not. Im just saying the majority dnt do that from reading posts here. U can still get these weapons if u made some combat. If u want weapons it means u know how to use them, right ?

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While I see your point, I also think I know why it was made the way it was.

They don't want getting these upgrades to be easy, nor enjoyable. The upgrades are not meant to be too common, not to be something everyone have everything of. Getting the upgrades seems to be made to be an achievement, as they will grant advantage.

Likewise, those that don't have combat as their primary interest, yet do need to have the same mods to survive PvP attacks, would just become even easier prey, since they would have problems fighting their way to the mods they need.

The current solution means it is more of an equal opportunity, but difficult, trying to keep it balanced, trying to keep weapon mods from only being in the hands of the fighters.

And any explorer/trader that fly around without weapons/shields with this new AI, will not last long. I am very happy I am out exploring with a combat fitted ship, so that I might actually survive running into stuff when I return to turn in the data.

I think the entire combination of harder AI/engineer mods was basically introduced to both make it less desirable to fly around unarmed, as well as giving fighters more enjoyable enemies, perhaps reducing Weapons Wielder versus Trade Turtle a bit.

Who knows? With AI being more dangerous now, at the top levels even performing much like human players, perhaps more people will dare to come back to Open as they gain experience, making the galaxy more vibrant.

No. Grind your chosen profession and nothing else is a terrible choice for unlocking top tier equipment. It would only cause further segregation instead of further inclusion.

Ok i understrand ur point about equal rights. but shouldn't it be about skills ? rather then luck ? there is no skill at all of driving around looking for materials on planet's surface is there ?

 

[Kaliblister]

because theres is skill in RES with the autority? and there's no luck? like if you get 5 anaconda in 10min when your friend just get adder and sidewinder?

if you want skill based upgrade put them behind mission

 

[MadDogMurdock]

Im all for different gameplay i know i did do bit of all. But i cant enjoy 4 hours of driving around looking for materials. can u honestly enjoy that ? I mean its not like its gona get that material while u normally play ur normal game would it ?

Completely agree with you on this - the approach to finding the materials and components you want does need another pass to provide a more targeted approach (similar to how the USSs for missions are now more targeted rather than completely random).
Driving around is gameplay I quite enjoy - driving around looking for something specific which may or may not randomly spawn is a different story.

However, many people seem to be objecting to being forced to do something different to get the shinies - this part of Engineers I have no problem with.
The focus of suggestion to FD needs to be on improving these gameplay elements, not returning to credit grinding being the solution to all problems.

The best suggestion I've seen so far to help resolve the specific rare materials problem is to give the Detailed Surface Scanner some love.
Have it identify the the % availability of materials on the planet and a rough guide to where they are most common.
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=258294
Bonus for applying it to rings and asteroid belts as well.

 

[avow555]

Since ED whole slogan is "Blaze your own trail" instead of collecting materials and forcing ppl into mini games they dont want to play here is my suggestion:

- to get FSD upgrades i.e. Explorers
- Grade 1 10 system scans L1
- Grade 2 30 system scans L1 - 5 planets scan L2
- Grade 3 50 system scans L1 - 10 planets scan L2
- Grade 4 100 system scans L1- 20 planets scan L2 - 5 moons scan L3
- Grade 5 500 system scans L1 - 50 planets scan L2 - 25 moons scan L3

- to get weapon upgrades . i.e. bounty hunters
- Grade 1 100.000 cr bounty
- Grade 2 500.000 cr bounty
- Grade 3 1.000.000 cr bounty
- Grade 4 5.000.000 bounty and 5 Python or clipper (elite level)
- Grade 5 10.000.000 bounty and 10 anaconda or higher (elite level)

and so on.. this way everyone get the upgrades he needs playing the game he want. What do u think?

Not an unreasonable suggestion, I like it.

 

[Han Brannigan]

But if you dont bounty hunt or ur not a pirate why would u upgrade your weapons ? explorers dont use weapons, Miners dont, Traders dont.

Wrong

 

[Kaliblister]

Completely agree with you on this - the approach to finding the materials and components you want does need another pass to provide a more targeted approach (similar to how the USSs for missions are now more targeted rather than completely random).
Driving around is gameplay I quite enjoy - driving around looking for something specific which may or may not randomly spawn is a different story.

However, many people seem to be objecting to being forced to do something different to get the shinies - this part of Engineers I have no problem with.
The focus of suggestion to FD needs to be on improving these gameplay elements, not returning to credit grinding being the solution to all problems.

The best suggestion I've seen so far to help resolve the specific rare materials problem is to give the Detailed Surface Scanner some love.
Have it identify the the % availability of materials on the planet and a rough guide to where they are most common.
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=258294
Bonus for applying it to rings and asteroid belts as well.

yeah the detailled surface scanner is a great idea. no one want to ride hours not knowing if its the right place or not. thats really the problem + the limitation of material storage. and maybe to many materials.

the material idea isn't perfect they really need to fix it. but putting mods behind money and bounty hunting... no just no bounty hunting is way too rewarding actually puting again more reward behind it is a really bad idea.

all new players are nearly force to play bounty hunter at start

 

[Mephane]

However, many people seem to be objecting to being forced to do something different to get the shinies - this part of Engineers I have no problem with.

Not just something different, but basically all the things. Even contradictory ones. If you go the Tod MyQuinn, the very engineer aimed at bounty hunters, who modifies projectile weapons - and right there he requires you to bring him materials normally obtained from destroying police ships, military, and traders. Like, the kind of ships I want to support, not attack.

 

[MadDogMurdock]

Not just something different, but basically all the things. Even contradictory ones. If you go the Tod MyQuinn, the very engineer aimed at bounty hunters, who modifies projectile weapons - and right there he requires you to bring him materials normally obtained from destroying police ships, military, and traders. Like, the kind of ships I want to support, not attack.

Not really contradictory - only pirate ships would have the parts needed to build guns?
The requirements for building something have very little to do with what it gets used for.

Try wreckage/emissions sites - they have bits from all sorts of different ships. I've picked up quite a few rares and very rares from those.

 

[Vasious]

Not just something different, but basically all the things. Even contradictory ones. If you go the Tod MyQuinn, the very engineer aimed at bounty hunters, who modifies projectile weapons - and right there he requires you to bring him materials normally obtained from destroying police ships, military, and traders. Like, the kind of ships I want to support, not attack.

Found in signals sources as well, diminished and encoded
And Wanted ships
Pirates are wanted combat type ships
Smugglers are Wanted Trader type ships

 

[Tusken]

Since ED whole slogan is "Blaze your own trail" instead of collecting materials and forcing ppl into mini games they dont want to play here is my suggestion:

- to get FSD upgrades i.e. Explorers
- Grade 1 10 system scans L1
- Grade 2 30 system scans L1 - 5 planets scan L2
- Grade 3 50 system scans L1 - 10 planets scan L2
- Grade 4 100 system scans L1- 20 planets scan L2 - 5 moons scan L3
- Grade 5 500 system scans L1 - 50 planets scan L2 - 25 moons scan L3

- to get weapon upgrades . i.e. bounty hunters
- Grade 1 100.000 cr bounty
- Grade 2 500.000 cr bounty
- Grade 3 1.000.000 cr bounty
- Grade 4 5.000.000 bounty and 5 Python or clipper (elite level)
- Grade 5 10.000.000 bounty and 10 anaconda or higher (elite level)

and so on.. this way everyone get the upgrades he needs playing the game he want. What do u think?

I think your idea doesn't help and might even make it less blaze your own trail like.

Example:

I am a combat pilot, not nessesely just BH.
I hunt sure, but I also undermine and do BGS work to maintain and expand several factions.
All combat but I do travel allot and with a FDL and all that travel I would like a FSD upgrade.
With your idea that means I will have to go exploring to get that, witch is not my "trail".

 

[rain_walker]

I think your idea doesn't help and might even make it less blaze your own trail like.

Example:

I am a combat pilot, not nessesely just BH.
I hunt sure, but I also undermine and do BGS work to maintain and expand several factions.
All combat but I do travel allot and with a FDL and all that travel I would like a FSD upgrade.
With your idea that means I will have to go exploring to get that, witch is not my "trail".

u wont need to go all the way to the center of the galaxy to get a grade 1-3 even 4 FSD upgrade. Since ur already doing some traveling u gona be scanning some new systems and getting enough data for the upgrades. U only have to push more toward exploring if u want the highest 2 levels.

But as things they r now u gona have to do some mining and planet driving to get the FSD upgrade that u want. so ur already doing things that rnt ur "trail" right ?
Do u think as a combat pilot, mining or driving around is more fun to u then traveling between stars ?

 

[Martian Successor]

While I see your point, I also think I know why it was made the way it was.

They don't want getting these upgrades to be easy, nor enjoyable. The upgrades are not meant to be too common, not to be something everyone have everything of. Getting the upgrades seems to be made to be an achievement, as they will grant advantage.

Likewise, those that don't have combat as their primary interest, yet do need to have the same mods to survive PvP attacks, would just become even easier prey, since they would have problems fighting their way to the mods they need.

The current solution means it is more of an equal opportunity, but difficult, trying to keep it balanced, trying to keep weapon mods from only being in the hands of the fighters.

And any explorer/trader that fly around without weapons/shields with this new AI, will not last long. I am very happy I am out exploring with a combat fitted ship, so that I might actually survive running into stuff when I return to turn in the data.

I think the entire combination of harder AI/engineer mods was basically introduced to both make it less desirable to fly around unarmed, as well as giving fighters more enjoyable enemies, perhaps reducing Weapons Wielder versus Trade Turtle a bit.

Who knows? With AI being more dangerous now, at the top levels even performing much like human players, perhaps more people will dare to come back to Open as they gain experience, making the galaxy more vibrant.

No. Grind your chosen profession and nothing else is a terrible choice for unlocking top tier equipment. It would only cause further segregation instead of further inclusion.

You make a good point about equal opportunity - an equal playing field. However there is one major flaw in the current way Engineers provides an equal playing field. It is an equal grinding field. Rather than being equally fun for all it is equally unenjoyable for all because we're all having to do things we don't like to do.

We're all grinding on the same equal field for the same things for different upgrades. We're all doing things we don't like to do as a main profession. Level playing field? Yes, to the extent that we're all equally bored. We're all equally not having fun in doing activities we don't enjoy to collect stuff for upgrades.

Whereas with the OPs suggestion at least we'd all be having more fun. Fighters are having fun fighting. Traders are having fun trading. Miners are having fun minning. Explorers are having fun exploring. Smugglers are having fun smuggling. Mission runners are having fun doing missions (missions give money and are also about choosing to do things you like, i.e. trading, fighting, pirating, smuggling, etc).

You make another good point when you said,

Likewise, those that don't have combat as their primary interest, yet do need to have the same mods to survive PvP attacks, would just become even easier prey, since they would have problems fighting their way to the mods they need.

Ok, so PvPers go for weapon upgrades. But those that do not focus on PvP or even combat altogether still have options for counter upgrades with the OPs idea of upgrading based on what you enjoy doing most. They don't necesarily have to get weapon upgrades to best someone with stronger weapons.

Non-PvPers or those not keen on combat (possibly the players some PvPers choose to attack) can for example go for smuggler upgrades like faster engines (to run with), cooler powerplants and better heatsinks (to counter heat weapons and use silent running). Explorers can also go for faster engines and faster FSD charge times. Traders and Miners can go for better shields and stronger hulls (because traders and miners make good sums of money).

Is it perfect, no. Does the idea of it sound more fun than having to spend time doing activities that we do not enjoy? I would say yes.

 

[rain_walker]

@Martian Successor

You explained it way better then i did. Thank you.

Its not perfect or finished idea. Just a direction that may make things a bit more fun.
Like on reddit someone suggested to add a lore to it as well..

I thought like : as a bounty hunter u go to a bounty hunting engineer that had a beef with a certain faction and he ask u to attack their pirates. Or an explorer that ask for certain exploration data from a 100,000 ly away star that he once went to as a young lad.

so it can get even more interesting.