AI spotted using engineer weapon

[sonichi813]

Yes they said all combat-oriented engineer modifications (so includes all weaponry) would be removed from the AI during the server-side changes that day. Myself and many others have posted that there are still engineered weapons being utilized by NPCs. Impulse and thermal attacks mainly - and these are not the "bugged" super-weapons, just modded attacks.

Safety is not an issue, I have yet to see an insurance screen despite being in the game every day since 2.1 launched and have had many MANY encounters with high-rated NPC pirates using enhanced weaponry. I am not combat-oriented and frankly couldn't fight my way out of a paper bag but I do know how to get-by. OK I have had repair bills but I have survived so please take your "git gud" attitude and deposit it in that place Terry Pratchett described up by Lancre in the mountains.

The development team have been hard at work investigating these bugs. To give you a little more information, it appears that the unusual weapons attacks were caused by some form of networking issue which allowed the NPC AI to merge weapon stats and abilities. Meaning that all new and never before seen (sometimes devastating) weapons were created, such as a rail gun with the fire rate of a pulse laser. These appear to have been compounded by the additional stats and abilities of the engineers weaponry. (We don’t think the AI became sentient in a Skynet-style uprising! ). However, the valiant Mark Allen from the Development team has managed to terminate these NPCs in their tracks.

The bug fix is expected to go live in our next point release which is planned for the end of this week/early next week but we’ll have more news on the exact time in the normal patch notes forum.

This was cut from the dev post in the news section. They never said all the weapons would be removed on that day, they stated that they would all be removed when we get the patch later this week or next.

 

[Darrett]

Rept CMDR;

Its getting pretty obvious now whats really behind this false theme of git gud and safety bit ye? Besides being obvious that its those that spittle out the git guds and safety that its they themselevs that have capabilty issues with the game or theyd not be projecting it everywhere and in each conversation.

Now, lets hope that FD comprehends this now too and brings the game into a decent playability level aside from the mission fixes.

I'm going to speak only for myself, so it may or may not apply to all the "git gud" folks.

My concern is that they will reduce the AI too far in an effort to be more inclusive and there will not be an upper end challenge for skilled pilots. Because of this, the first thing I assume is that a portion of those complaining are doing so having been coddled by easy AI and are not willing to relearn piloting skills.

Personally, I'll never be able to beat Elite rated NPCs, 2.1 has shown me that. I'm working my way up the lower ranks right now and can beat up to Expert level Pythons or Anacondas depending on load out (though one managed to double PA me which forced a hasty retreat... my fault for not boosting past his FA off pitch), but it would be a shame if the AI was reduced just so I could beat Elites right now.

 

[sonichi813]

Not about "git gud", It's about giving them some time to fix a bug that they have stated they were working on. The way I see it this whole thread is null and void since they never stated that all weapons were removed, so what is the complaint now? No one is reflecting here, just stating what is readily available in the news section. Chill

 

[Thetele]

The development team have been hard at work investigating these bugs. To give you a little more information, it appears that the unusual weapons attacks were caused by some form of networking issue which allowed the NPC AI to merge weapon stats and abilities. Meaning that all new and never before seen (sometimes devastating) weapons were created, such as a rail gun with the fire rate of a pulse laser. These appear to have been compounded by the additional stats and abilities of the engineers weaponry. (We don’t think the AI became sentient in a Skynet-style uprising! ). However, the valiant Mark Allen from the Development team has managed to terminate these NPCs in their tracks.

The bug fix is expected to go live in our next point release which is planned for the end of this week/early next week but we’ll have more news on the exact time in the normal patch notes forum.

This was cut from the dev post in the news section. They never said all the weapons would be removed on that day, they stated that they would all be removed when we get the patch later this week or next.

They said this later in same post you mentioned. If they said that they removed engineer weapons and they are still in game there is something gone wrong and devs and players should know about it. Because it may make players report npc still being bugged when in reality npc was still using engineer weapon.

The only action that we’ve taken so far has been to remove the engineer weapons to allow us to investigate the issue and address a key bug.

 

[hunvagy]

If it's just Thermal attack, then it might not be an engineer weapon. The retribution laser from PP does the same thing as thermal shock. And that is pre engineers. If it's impulse attack or something else, then it is worth reporting.

 

[Mark Allen]

It's worth pointing out that those warnings aren't exclusive to engineer mods - Some weapons have side effects innately that will also trigger the warnings. Specifically:

Retributor lasers: Thermal attack.
Plasma Accelerators: Thermal Attack (and technically increased chance to make any module they hit malfunction, though I think that's not called out).
Railguns: Impulse (small).

Though the railgun/plasma effects are far far less powerful than engineer-added versions!

 

[Vasious]

It's worth pointing out that those warnings aren't exclusive to engineer mods - Some weapons have side effects innately that will also trigger the warnings. Specifically:

Retributor lasers: Thermal attack.
Plasma Accelerators: Thermal Attack (and technically increased chance to make any module they hit malfunction, though I think that's not called out).
Railguns: Impulse (small).

So if you're seeing those pop up it's not exclusive to engineered weapons (though the railgun/plasma effects are far far less powerful than engineer-added versions!).

Good to know, cheers

 

[hunvagy]

It's worth pointing out that those warnings aren't exclusive to engineer mods - Some weapons have side effects innately that will also trigger the warnings. Specifically:

Retributor lasers: Thermal attack.
Plasma Accelerators: Thermal Attack (and technically increased chance to make any module they hit malfunction, though I think that's not called out).
Railguns: Impulse (small).

Though the railgun/plasma effects are far far less powerful than engineer-added versions!

Would be nice to have a compiled list of the.. for lack of better word debuff icons. I have been getting something looking like a little flame with my MC, and I'm sure I don't have incendiary or thermal on that one.

 

[Deftin]

Would be nice to have a compiled list of the.. for lack of better word debuff icons. I have been getting something looking like a little flame with my MC, and I'm sure I don't have incendiary or thermal on that one.

How about this?

 

[hunvagy]

How about this?

http://i.imgur.com/LM9L5OL.jpg

Oh sweet, must have missed that one if it was somewhere on the old beta forums A-ha, os it was hull breach, not thermal. Makes sense *hugs Huge MC*

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Oh sweet, must have missed that one if it was somewhere on the old beta forums A-ha, os it was hull breach, not thermal. Makes sense *hugs Huge MC*

It's in new FD videos about Engineers and new weapon system on Youtube. Go check it out.

 

[hunvagy]

It's in new FD videos about Engineers and new weapon system on Youtube. Go check it out.

Ah video, that explains it. I hope it also goes into the manual, it's easier to search then seeking in a video.

 

[Cliffson]

It's worth pointing out that those warnings aren't exclusive to engineer mods - Some weapons have side effects innately that will also trigger the warnings. Specifically:

Retributor lasers: Thermal attack.
Plasma Accelerators: Thermal Attack (and technically increased chance to make any module they hit malfunction, though I think that's not called out).
Railguns: Impulse (small).

Though the railgun/plasma effects are far far less powerful than engineer-added versions!

I was about to post that i suspected plasmas did thermal by default, thanks for confirming. Do we have a complete list anywhere of what causes what by default?

 

[Jmanis]

yes i had a few ai with mods attacking me today, thought they had ben removed.

The bug fixed them being overpowered, not remove them. Where NPCs had engineered weapons, they were at an incorrect ROF and other parameters.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Ah video, that explains it. I hope it also goes into the manual, it's easier to search then seeking in a video.

It will go into manual, I hope they update it pronto. Lots of new information.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Because at this stage, most players don't have access to these features (not to say anything about the bugged weapons), and so it's created an asymmetrical playing field, where people are being out turned by ships that shouldn't be able to do so thanks to thruster upgrades they can't yet get.

If they remove them while people are getting set up and then add them again based on NPC combat rank, things will flow better.

In theory, that would work fine for existing players, but what about when new players come on board? They are going to get bit hard.

unfortunately, we don't have different level zones really at the moment like in your typical RPG/ARPG/MMO. I mean, we have anarchies, and CZ, and RES of different levels, but AFAIK, FD do not do much adjustment in terms of the ranks of enemies appearing in them, they seem to be more or less the same. So, there are no real safe zones for new players.

If FD could tweak things so there are "high level areas" "mid level areas" and "low level areas" and have them clearly marked and alerts sent, that might help out a lot. New players, and those with less skill, can stick to high sec, low RES, low CZ, for their activities, while those seeking a challenge can go to Haz RES is anarchies and face swarms of Elite NPCs with Engineer weapons etc.

 

[Starkiller_]

Apparently there is some that can't be removed (speculation) and it is taking longer for them to remove them, bug report it and hopefully they will look at it.

 

[nosscar]

I was just interdicted by a Deadly ranked Anaconda, no reason i had no cargo, only limpets, and i got the thermal attack warnings, after reading some posts on here, it may be just normal weapons, or not, you decide. I had 6A shields and a shield booster on my Conda, but shields went down to last ring pretty quick.
But i thought all thermal weapons ect had been removed too in this mornings patch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pm27i6FBmdQ

 

[Para Handy]

The development team have been hard at work investigating these bugs. To give you a little more information, it appears that the unusual weapons attacks were caused by some form of networking issue which allowed the NPC AI to merge weapon stats and abilities. Meaning that all new and never before seen (sometimes devastating) weapons were created, such as a rail gun with the fire rate of a pulse laser. These appear to have been compounded by the additional stats and abilities of the engineers weaponry. (We don’t think the AI became sentient in a Skynet-style uprising! ). However, the valiant Mark Allen from the Development team has managed to terminate these NPCs in their tracks.

The bug fix is expected to go live in our next point release which is planned for the end of this week/early next week but we’ll have more news on the exact time in the normal patch notes forum.

This was cut from the dev post in the news section. They never said all the weapons would be removed on that day, they stated that they would all be removed when we get the patch later this week or next.

Unfortunately you failed to notice the first post on this issue from Zac which specifically stated that all engineer mods on NPC would be removed except for a few which were not combat related:

"
The first change is that we will be removing almost all Engineers upgrades from the NPCs in game. There are a very few select upgrades that will remain for coding reasons but they will be low level and not combat specific upgrades. On the whole you should notice that the vast majority of upgrades are gone from NPCs which will mean that players will be greater equipped to deal with NPC threats and should be able to last longer in a combat situation, should they need to make a hasty exit. It will also mean that players who gather their own upgrades will have a technical advantage on the NPC combatants too. The good part about this is that these are all server side, which means we are able to make those changes today!

"
from here: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=257892&p=3990998&viewfull=1#post3990998

However the post on this thread from Mark Allen points out that we now get warnings produced by non-engineered weaponry so that explains why people, including me, thought we were being attacked by NPCs with engineered weapons. Therefore our suspicion that some enhancements remain were unfounded and caused by the lack of an updated manual detailing that these warnings would now be present.

Case closed.