Simple Question for Frontier

[GluttonyFang]

Hello FD,

I have a simple question regarding features of professions in their multiplayer interactions, particularly piracy and bounty hunting.

Currently, the 15-second legitimate menu exit makes player piracy impossible (new crime and punishment system along with grade A hatch breaker takes 18 seconds to hack a hatch), and bounty hunting close to impossible unless the target is flying a vulnerable ship while wanted.

Therefore we can see that a legitimate out of game action breaks in-game legitimate profession interaction.

So the question is, in Open mode, do player pirates and bounty hunters need the explicit consent of the targeted player (Cmdr trader/wanted Cmdr) in order to proceed with the multiplayer aspect of this profession?

That is to say is it legitimate to use the 15 second menu log out as a method of nullifying piracy or bounty hunting interaction with other players without consequence?

If it is legitimate, are the multiplayer aspect of piracy and bounty hunting profession broken, or does FD see it as working as intended?

Thank you for your time.

Sincerely,

Gluttony Fang

(I won't to replying to anyone in this thread other than FD employees since I know it's controversial and people will start mud slinging, and if there's no answer, then so be it.)

 

[Mikalus]

Haha Gluttony. While away from Elite Dangerous it is your posts specifically that I missed most about the forums.

 

[shadragon]

Why people fly in Open and exit out when interdicted is beyond me.

They should set the logout timer to the same time as the FSD spool-up, so no one can get out of the game before they could normally use an FSD to lo-jump out. Then hull mass and proximity have an impact.

One thing is for sure, the devs can't fix stupid.

 

[Khelder]

Why people fly in Open and exit out when interdicted is beyond me.

Possibly because there is no Open PvE mode and this is the next best alternative.

 

[Banana's_Are_Good_For_You]

Not something I particularly care about but there may be a point if a pirate can't even get any goodies before legit logging out.
I would like piracy to work a bit better and be more focused around cargo theft and disabling than player killing.
Nicking stuff is minor league trolling, killing players is like just to annoy players a lot.
Players get annoyed with the latter a lot more.

I haz dreams...mostly ruined by humans.
Who knew.

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Possibly because there is no Open PvE mode and this is the next best alternative.

Or just humans are lame and can't take a loss by another human.

 

[Khelder]

Or just humans are lame and can't take a loss by another human.

That's possible. I'm not making judgements. Have just observed that there seem to be a lot of players who would choose to play this way if they could. I'd probably be one of them most of the time.

Not something I particularly care about but there may be a point if a pirate can't even get any goodies before legit logging out.
I would like piracy to work a bit better and be more focused around cargo theft and disabling than player killing.
Nicking stuff is minor league trolling, killing players is like just to annoy players a lot.
Players get annoyed with the latter a lot more.

I haz dreams...mostly ruined by humans.
Who knew.

Going back to the other point, if a way was made for players to play in a PvE environment (either through separate mode or play flag or something), then that issue should be covered off. You would then be left with players who are either confused or have essentially chosen to participate in that style of gameplay.

That's not going to solve all problems though. There are still plenty of other ways to artificially cut short dangerous situations. You're never going to completely stamp out this kind of thing.

 

[Banana's_Are_Good_For_You]

That's possible. I'm not making judgements. Have just observed that there seem to be a lot of players who would choose to play this way if they could. I'd probably be one of them most of the time.

Going back to the other point, if a way was made for players to play in a PvE environment (either through separate mode or play flag or something), then that issue should be covered off. You would then be left with players who are either confused or have essentially chosen to participate in that style of gameplay.

That's not going to solve all problems though. There are still plenty of other ways to artificially cut short dangerous situations. You're never going to completely stamp out this kind of thing.

Yea, I know the magnitude of what I speak of so I'm just throwing things out there and seeing if anything sticks or sparks another player's imagination or smtg. Prolly not much but you can't hate a banana for trying. I try to be positive, mostly.

I don't think further dividing open is the way to go by way of flags. As soon as you take a cargo run, your cargo should be available to piracy. What I don't like is the trollish behaviour of those who just wanna kill players.
I don't mind the idea of maybe shields being disabled for a short period of time for a pirate to act (with HB limpets) as they aren't gonna get paid except by what they steal. I think the emphasis of piracy should all be about creating the quickest way to gain the candy they want.
Problem is the 15 sec timer is too short for a pirate to act like the furry one says. I've actually laughed when I've seen players flaunt this as well so it really needs to change.

So, rather than go for something that works for gameplay, please consider raising the legit logout. I have a lot of hours and I haven't ever needed to log out because door rang etc. so their is some manipulation going on (I have died over 20 times and never used any escape death tools). This, in turn, will allow a pirate to act and get their candy.
I guess what some will now be saying is "well, how does that affect the pirate". And fair enough so here's some thoughts on that.
Pretty much the same way you get trolled by bounty hunters where acts against a faction and they send out BH's. If a pirate is not killing a ship and pirating it then they're the Robin Hood of the spaceways. Minor fines for interdictions and same for dropping shields, property damage is more severe, repeat offences and then we're getting to bounties. Dunno if that can work though, just ideas.
Murder is murder however and seriously trolled out of systems where they commit the crime. Maybe to a slightly lesser degree if Anarchy, and maybe by more if controlled / exploited by a superpower, something that isn't in the game yet.
I will say that pirates can't operate in high sec areas but like the old days, where they pirated the Carribean, and not the English Channel, picking where to pirate is a thing and something that can be done by states. It's now obvious to all, if you understand it, where the best profit lies and it ever changes. I haven't mastered it but I do see better prices dependant on state. If I was a pirate...
Knowing where to trade the best prices makes it both viable for pirates and traders. From a trader's perspective, it's about getting in there before the pirates gather and this is all game knowledge. Once you learn that then you make your choice, if you wanna indulge in the risk / reward thing.
Those who don't take lesser profitable routes yet still progress.
This was such a good addition to the game.

Dunno if you guys can get your heads around it though.

It just depends on how many want to engage with it. At least now there is a bit more of a cat and mouse game involved.

 

[tawittle]

FD has said using the 15 second timer is legitimate. Just like combat logging.

 

[Banana's_Are_Good_For_You]

FD has said using the 15 second timer is legitimate. Just like combat logging.

Yet, since the furry one is gagged and can't legalese, can we not just have an ideas thread?
Might be nice, for a change.

 

[Khelder]

Yea, I know the magnitude of what I speak of so I'm just throwing things out there and seeing if anything sticks or sparks another player's imagination or smtg. Prolly not much but you can't hate a banana for trying. I try to be positive, mostly.

I don't think further dividing open is the way to go by way of flags. As soon as you take a cargo run, your cargo should be available to piracy. What I don't like is the trollish behaviour of those who just wanna kill players.
I don't mind the idea of maybe shields being disabled for a short period of time for a pirate to act (with HB limpets) as they aren't gonna get paid except by what they steal. I think the emphasis of piracy should all be about creating the quickest way to gain the candy they want.
Problem is the 15 sec timer is too short for a pirate to act like the furry one says. I've actually laughed when I've seen players flaunt this as well so it really needs to change.

So, rather than go for something that works for gameplay, please consider raising the legit logout. I have a lot of hours and I haven't ever needed to log out because door rang etc. so their is some manipulation going on (I have died over 20 times and never used any escape death tools). This, in turn, will allow a pirate to act and get their candy.
I guess what some will now be saying is "well, how does that affect the pirate". And fair enough so here's some thoughts on that.
Pretty much the same way you get trolled by bounty hunters where acts against a faction and they send out BH's. If a pirate is not killing a ship and pirating it then they're the Robin Hood of the spaceways. Minor fines for interdictions and same for dropping shields, property damage is more severe, repeat offences and then we're getting to bounties. Dunno if that can work though, just ideas.
Murder is murder however and seriously trolled out of systems where they commit the crime. Maybe to a slightly lesser degree if Anarchy, and maybe by more if controlled / exploited by a superpower, something that isn't in the game yet.
I will say that pirates can't operate in high sec areas but like the old days, where they pirated the Carribean, and not the English Channel, picking where to pirate is a thing and something that can be done by states. It's now obvious to all, if you understand it, where the best profit lies and it ever changes. I haven't mastered it but I do see better prices dependant on state. If I was a pirate...
Knowing where to trade the best prices makes it both viable for pirates and traders. From a trader's perspective, it's about getting in there before the pirates gather and this is all game knowledge. Once you learn that then you make your choice, if you wanna indulge in the risk / reward thing.
Those who don't take lesser profitable routes yet still progress.
This was such a good addition to the game.

Dunno if you guys can get your heads around it though.

It just depends on how many want to engage with it. At least now there is a bit more of a cat and mouse game involved.

I don't know if the whole crime/punishment/reward thing is really a part of this. Yes, all for discussing ideas around that so it makes sense for all. But the problem is still going to be those who abuse whatever systems that are available to them (or just simply go around those systems).

I don't think extending the timer will do anything. It'll just drive more people to the "workaround". Same with removing it altogether.

You could always try being a little more harsh. Perhaps if a client drops out in combat (this will, unfortunately, include legitimate client crashes and network failures), then that ship disappears... but first poops out whatever cargo it had.

I actually used the countdown timer the other day. Was about to log out anyway. I was in space but had to leave quickly. Got interdicted (NPC) right at that moment. Lost the interdiction (I wasn't really paying attention at this point) and found myself immediately in combat. Didn't really have time to hang around and fight or flee. So used the menu option. It's not bad all the time.

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Yet, since the furry one is gagged and can't legalese, can we not just have an ideas thread?
Might be nice, for a change.

I think the "furry one" actually wanted an "FD responds directly" thread. [uhh][smile]

 

[MickyG1982]

I think what people want to see is combat logging in any form either disappear, or look like it has.

That 15 second timer is easily enough time to load in a basic AI to take over control of the Cmdr logging out. Now, I wouldn't expect the legal logger to suffer from this, the game should save their state at the point of logging out. So no insurance screen, unless they die in those 15 seconds.
So their state is saved, the instance transfers to the attackers computer only (hopefully seamlessly) and the fight continues to its natural conclusion.
The attacker see's the boom, gets his pay, the logger logs out, gets no rebuy. No break in immersion, everyone is happy.

 

[smiths121]

Having spent most of Feb/March in Type-6s I am a bit suprised I have not had a stand and deliver notice. This time last year I would have been pirated by now!

Are there actually any pirates left in open? If so I'm guessing on the rare's or around CGs.

I'd like to see piracy and bounty hunting (PC bounty hunting not res farming) buffed a little, based on my experience to encourage a bit more if it. It is possible there is a whole pirate/bounty hunting game going on I am not aware of - in which case ignore me!

Simon

 

[g04tn4d0]

Possibly because there is no Open PvE mode and this is the next best alternative.

That's true. Some people want to meet other people and socialize. That said, they could just use the forums and play in private groups. The whole distributed hosting model is a complete failure when it comes to PvP. Never should have been implemented if it couldn't be enforced.

 

[Mohrgan]

I think what people want to see is combat logging in any form either disappear, or look like it has.

That 15 second timer is easily enough time to load in a basic AI to take over control of the Cmdr logging out. Now, I wouldn't expect the legal logger to suffer from this, the game should save their state at the point of logging out. So no insurance screen, unless they die in those 15 seconds.
So their state is saved, the instance transfers to the attackers computer only (hopefully seamlessly) and the fight continues to its natural conclusion.
The attacker see's the boom, gets his pay, the logger logs out, gets no rebuy. No break in immersion, everyone is happy.

FD have explained that due to the P2P architecture there is no way for them to 'load a basic AI to take over". When the client is gone, by any means, it is gone.

 

[babelfisch]

I think the "furry one" actually wanted an "FD responds directly" thread. [uhh][smile]

I think the "furry one" is well aware that people will discuss anyway, it's just that he is not going to participate this time. The "red pelt" knows that every discussion he is taking part in requieres at least 20 pages and he is already occupied by the other thread.
Anyway, here is my suggestion:

So what can YOU do about combat logging? Simple: Create a private group. Invite all the people that want to play with you. Kick everyone who leaves the game during combat, regardless of pulling the plug, logging to menu or connectivity issues. Promote it on the forums. Call everyone that doesn't join your group a coward. If you are clever you'll find a way to reward people that play with you. This is the only solution I can think off - everything else will not work.

 

[frostypaw]

Psst fuzzball you meant "implicit" - you don't need to ask them first. the fact they don't log out is your consent.

 

[Spiridon]

I think the "furry one" is well aware that people will discuss anyway, it's just that he is not going to participate this time. The "red pelt" knows that every discussion he is taking part in requieres at least 20 pages and he is already occupied by the other thread.
Anyway, here is my suggestion:

So what can YOU do about combat logging? Simple: Create a private group. Invite all the people that want to play with you. Kick everyone who leaves the game during combat, regardless of pulling the plug, logging to menu or connectivity issues. Promote it on the forums. Call everyone that doesn't join your group a coward. If you are clever you'll find a way to reward people that play with you. This is the only solution I can think off - everything else will not work.

Amen.

This way they can force any rule they want, set all rules of engagement etc. And leave us and this forum free of daily rants "me, ME, ME, ME!!!"

 

[ShimEnki]

Anyway, here is my suggestion:

So what can YOU do about combat logging? Simple: Create a private group. Invite all the people that want to play with you. Kick everyone who leaves the game during combat, regardless of pulling the plug, logging to menu or connectivity issues. Promote it on the forums. Call everyone that doesn't join your group a coward. If you are clever you'll find a way to reward people that play with you. This is the only solution I can think off - everything else will not work.

Agreed CMDR; and they never ever consider such a thing precisely becuase if you place them all in a group theyd not even fill an old style phone booth. So...they look for table scraps from FD to try and force ppl to play the victim.

Im just glad im not a 4 legged one wearing wool on a nearby farm around this lot.

 

[babelfisch]

Agreed CMDR; and they never ever consider such a thing precisely becuase if you place them all in a group theyd not even fill an old style phone booth. So...they look for table scraps from FD to try and force ppl to play the victim.

Im just glad im not a 4 legged one wearing wool on a nearby farm around this lot.

Apparently such a group already exists:

http://inara.cz/wing-history/936

I think they need to do more advertising. I didn't know of the PG before yesterday and I think I am very active on this forum. When people complain about unfair PvP or ask for a PvE environment they get told to join mobius. We just need to the same with the Bluesun Group every time someone complains about broken piracy, combat logging and menu logging.