Another Upgraded NPC Gripe

I'd like to thanks Frontier for killing the game for me. I'm a casual player and have been so since release, The Engineers update seemed OK, I wasn't too bothered that I might have to grind for a lot longer to get some of the benefits. However, I've logged on three times since the update and in three trips have been interdicted by NPC's twice. The first time I lasted approx 5 seconds, just enough to see the attacker was flying a FAS. The second time was a Cutter with what seemed to be PA's that had redballs of energy, the first salvo took out my shields and 10% of the hull, I managed to duck and weave and get away with 66% hull only to be interdicted again by the same NPC needless to say I couldn't get away again.

Now, I was flying an ASP kitted out for trading and have always been able to give an NPC FAS a good fight but this is a joke. Am I supposed to fit my ship out with Hull Reinforcement, Class 6 shields & 4 Shield Boosters and run a 4 ton cargo bay? Those two interdictions cost around 4.5 million in insurance claims and lost cargo and if that's the new norm then trading is dead as a way to make credits.

Yes, the NPC's needed toughening up but if it means almost instant death when you are interdicted as a trader then where's the fun. All I can say is I'm glad I left my trading Anaconda in the station.
 
all because you learned nothing pre 2.1 just how to play safe and not how to fight or more importantly when to run and thats FD's fault ? and i dont believe your story because you provide no video as evidence to prove your claims
 
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NPC don't use mods anymore, if encounter some anyway get some screenshot/vids and do a bug report.

And trade asp against a combat FAS will always be in heavy favor of the FAS, even a combat asp is at disadvantge. Don't go into fights like that, at least not with a trade setup, do the runner.
 
all because you learned nothing pre 2.1 just how to play safe and not how to fight or more importantly when to run and thats FD's fault ? and i dont believe your story because you provide no video as evidence to prove your claims

A cargo laden asps' top speed is likely 360ish. FAS is 400ish. You don't need a video to prove you can't escape that. And that's not even considering mass-lock and FSD cool down. You people and your video proof crap is ridiculous too- the last time I did that for a troll they didn't even watch it even though it proved their idiotic accusations wrong.

Yes they use mods and I can post a hundred videos of it. They just don't have stage 5 kids anymore and they're only usually on higher ranked ships.
 
I use a C6 shield with 2 boosters on my trading Asp, with A-rated thrusters. Works pretty well. Depending on if you want to go with HRP, you'll be 56-64 cargo, 21 LY jump range laden. This is running two medium mine launchers and four gimballed fragment cannons if they get too close, those are completely optional. Also have chaff.

If I just focus on running, haven't had an issue.
 
Personally, I loved the AI changes at first, until I realized that they are just as predictable as before. For decent combat pilots, the only real difference now is that it's more tedious and time-consuming to kill the AI. If you know what you're doing, they're not more fun or more challenging, just more irritating.

However, I really sympathize with all the less dedicated players who aren't decent combat pilots, and can't deal with the new AI (you do have to at least somewhat know what you're doing to beat them), since the changes to AI have basically made it a completely different game for them. It went from being something relaxing and fun to something difficult and frustrating. They definitely hemmorhaged a huge number of more casual players from the game by up-tuning the AI to such an extreme degree.

All they had to do was fix the bugs with the old AI. If they had just gotten rid of the spinning bug, the scan-and-ram, and the smashing into asteroids bug, everyone would have been happy. Maybe they could have also tinkered with their builds a bit to make the higher-ranked NPCs tougher to take out. The old AI wasn't challenging 1-on-1, but if you wanted a tough fight, it was still entirely possible to get one. Trying to take on an Anaconda and 2 Clipper wing was a tough fight. Strong signal sources were tough fights.

FDev is obviously aware that this is a problem, they've been trying to down-tune the challenge presented by AI without rolling back to how they were before, but it's too late, the damage is done. If they try to roll them back now, everyone who loves the new AI will be angry, and it would probably be too little, too late to reclaim most of the people who quit the game after it went from 0-100 overnight. FDev is in a tough spot with this one.
 
Yes they use mods and I can post a hundred videos of it. They just don't have stage 5 kids anymore and they're only usually on higher ranked ships.

What Engineers Mods do you 100 Videos show the NPCs using? All since the Patch that was supposed to prevent NPCs from Having them?
 
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Thing was with the FAS there just wasn't time to run, it was all over too quick. I did get away from the Cutter the first time but not the second time, FSD charge was at about 75% but the hull was down to 10% so one hit did it. Maybe I should have jumped out to another system then back in but I was pretty close to the station and thought I could make it.
 
Thing was with the FAS there just wasn't time to run, it was all over too quick. I did get away from the Cutter the first time but not the second time, FSD charge was at about 75% but the hull was down to 10% so one hit did it. Maybe I should have jumped out to another system then back in but I was pretty close to the station and thought I could make it.

Might not help much, but if you have a "target nearest threat" button bound, when you are in SC being interdicted you can "Target nearest threat" to see who is interdicting you, so you have an idea of ship class and rating.

Were you on a mission or just general trading?

Do you have any counter measures fitted to your Asp?
 
Thing was with the FAS there just wasn't time to run, it was all over too quick. I did get away from the Cutter the first time but not the second time, FSD charge was at about 75% but the hull was down to 10% so one hit did it. Maybe I should have jumped out to another system then back in but I was pretty close to the station and thought I could make it.

I have noticed a higher usage rate on PAs and Rails. With NPC accuracy being so high and a lack of heat management requirements for them, if you get unlucky you might just be getting hit by burst damage you can't take.

Hopefully they look at piracy AI so you could at least get the chance to drop some cargo to escape.
 
all because you learned nothing pre 2.1 just how to play safe and not how to fight or more importantly when to run and thats FD's fault ? and i dont believe your story because you provide no video as evidence to prove your claims

Why is it that you and others belittle and insult someone for their post? That is his/her experience, same as you or anyone else's and entitled to post it. This so lame, "git gud", "you can't fly". Everyone can't be as talented as you may possibly be, if you are, congratulations! Now it is up to FD to decide where to strike a balance for all players, because if they made the game only for aces such as you, the game WOULD NOT EXIST.

I just took on an elite Cobra that interdicted me for some worthless cargo I had on board. I decided I wasn't going to run and I ended up taking it out. However, this Cobra had uncanny marksmanship and managed to take all four of my FAS weapons, 2 3Cg lasers and 2 2Ft MC to less than 30% and also 76% hull. It also expended CONTINUOUS CHAFF, until the very end. Worst of all, he was lawless and no bounty to offset 88K of repairs. This is why my A-Class Python sits in spaceport, it can't dogfight well enough and damage is expensive, for little return.

In case you haven't read the posts, there many players that are losing multiple expensive ships under the same circumstances as the OP. BTW if you are sitting on pile of CR's you made while the game was easier, think how newbies will feel if tried to amass a similar amount today.

"Starship Troopers"
Robert Heinlein
 
With NPC accuracy being so high and a lack of heat management requirements for them

..

Hopefully they look at piracy AI so you could at least get the chance to drop some cargo to escape.

1) NPCs are subject to heat effects.

2) You can drop cargo to evade a pirate NPC.

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I just took on an elite Cobra that interdicted me for some worthless cargo I had on board. I decided I wasn't going to run and I ended up taking it out. However, this Cobra had uncanny marksmanship and managed to take all four of my FAS weapons, 2 3Cg lasers and 2 2Ft MC to less than 30% and also 76% hull. It also expended CONTINUOUS CHAFF, until the very end.

You as a player can expend CONTINUOUS CHAFF too.

I think the issue is weve had a few of these posts, often with video, and when you watch the video it's clear the player could have got away.

I'm not saying that's true in this case, I have no idea, but the last one I saw the player had chaff and didn't even use it.
 
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What Engineers Mods do you 100 Videos show the NPCs using? All since the Patch that was supposed to prevent NPCs from Having them?

Actually not all NPC mods have been removed, I forget which dev it was who said so a couple of days back. Also the rapid fire PA bug hasn't been fixed yet, as far as I am aware, which means some NPCs have instant kill capability still, and despite INSTANTLY zeroing throttle when interdicted in my Tradeconda I still wind up with a FSD fail around 3 times from 4, which I suspect is some variation on the Radeon driver/interdiction bug that a driver update fixed a few months back (but seems to have crept back in) - the latter 'bug' not being down to FD of course.

There are a number of factors currently in the game that are presumably being worked on, and unfortunately they can end up killing your ship in what would appear to be a somewhat unfair manner - let's hope FD manage to squash those factors that are actually bug related.

I still find the NPCs a pretty curious mix - some of them are just cannon fodder, while others hideously outclass your ship - if you have a decent combat rank by whatever route the game seems to send Elite FAS's, Pythons and goodness knows what else against you, even if you are running around trading in a T6.... upping the NPC level to provide a challenge is to be applauded, but I think they've overlooked the need to include the player's currently flown ship in the NPC spawn routine. Of course this issue doesn't concern the git gud brigade driving round in combat ships who don't care that some of us would quite like to play the game as traders, explorers, or miners, so they post their usual fatuous comments.

You have my sympathy op, both for the tale of woe and for the typical 'git gud' comments of the usual suspects. I would be pretty surprised if FD left things the way they are currently, there'll be rebalancing runs for a while until they get it right.

Dave
 
OP: Did these things happen before or after the NPC downgrade in 2.1.02? They've lost the superweapon bug and many of the Engineer upgrades. You also get slightly lower (combat) ranked NPCs attacking you than before.

I've been killed once since 2.1 came out, but I have now a Point Defence and I run away about 50% of the time. I also don't risk flying without an insurance rebuy. I didn't worry about that before as it was only really CMDRs who could kill me, but that's not the case any more.

The multiple serial interdictions that still happen are a pain in the butt though (especially when its a Mostly Harmless Cobra CMDR v Competent FAS NPC). I thought that the Interdictor always got the long FSD cooldown period and the Interdictee got the short FSD cooldown period (if they submit) so they get a better chance to escape. That doesn't seem to be happening now. It's annoying. I had to use a Suicidewinder to clear the (accidental) bounty on my head to finally escape the serial interdictions. Also annoying.
 
What Engineers Mods do you 100 Videos show the NPCs using? All since the Patch that was supposed to prevent NPCs from Having them?

The NPC's still have mods. Just not many. I got hit a few times today alone with heat damage. They were deadly + ships.

Luckily, no 3 second deaths
 
It will take some adjustment under these new conditions, but we can all feel the pain of losing our ships. As one who doesn't pretend to be a combat expert, I now run quickly once I know I am being targeted. Some other points for the OP that might be helpful to go along with the suggestions on ship configuration...

1. Once they announce themselves, I usually put four pips to shields (sys) and reduce speed. If I can do it quickly and get into the blue before they interdict me, I can drop from SC and it takes them awhile to follow. Often I am back heading towards a station, and if it is a short distance I can often use or repeat this tactic to avoid them all together (and I can also occasionally get them to follow me to the station, where they are dispatched by the local security - no credits from me but somehow a satisfying end to any chase). If it a long distance this strategy can allow you to also high wake out if that is more advantageous or if you are in the middle of multiple system hops to your destination.

2. If you are caught in a trading vessel (or when obviously outclassed), I always submit. 4 pips to the shields and boost, and if that can't shake them then high wake. While I have had to dodge some green plasma blobs, so far I have not lost my shields before getting away in the last few days since the update (prior to the latest I did lose a couple of ships, although admittedly I was flying under the influence on one of those trips so I deserved it).
 
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Actually not all NPC mods have been removed, I forget which dev it was who said so a couple of days back. Also the rapid fire PA bug hasn't been fixed yet, as far as I am aware, which means some NPCs have instant kill capability still, and despite INSTANTLY zeroing throttle when interdicted in my Tradeconda I still wind up with a FSD fail around 3 times from 4, which I suspect is some variation on the Radeon driver/interdiction bug that a driver update fixed a few months back (but seems to have crept back in) - the latter 'bug' not being down to FD of course.

Ah Cool, I know there were some non weapon Mods, didn't know the rapid PA bug was still in

On the Interdictions, remember to keep fighting to win the interdiction even if your submitting as it takes time to submit and if you lose the interdiction before that, the FSD failure happens instead of the submission
 
Why is it that you and others belittle and insult someone for their post? That is his/her experience, same as you or anyone else's and entitled to post it. This so lame, "git gud", "you can't fly". Everyone can't be as talented as you may possibly be, if you are, congratulations! Now it is up to FD to decide where to strike a balance for all players, because if they made the game only for aces such as you, the game WOULD NOT EXIST.

I just took on an elite Cobra that interdicted me for some worthless cargo I had on board. I decided I wasn't going to run and I ended up taking it out. However, this Cobra had uncanny marksmanship and managed to take all four of my FAS weapons, 2 3Cg lasers and 2 2Ft MC to less than 30% and also 76% hull. It also expended CONTINUOUS CHAFF, until the very end. Worst of all, he was lawless and no bounty to offset 88K of repairs. This is why my A-Class Python sits in spaceport, it can't dogfight well enough and damage is expensive, for little return.

In case you haven't read the posts, there many players that are losing multiple expensive ships under the same circumstances as the OP. BTW if you are sitting on pile of CR's you made while the game was easier, think how newbies will feel if tried to amass a similar amount today.

"Starship Troopers"
Robert Heinlein

in fairness, what was being said is true, could maybe just have been put in a better way..

yes many of us levelled under easier ai pre 2.1, the intention was always to have the ai being more player like in terms of the way it behaves, it just took time and lots of data in order to model it correctly. as for new players.. they are learning the game with the new ai, and start at low ranks so will be dealing with lower ranked npc's with less effective equipment. the issue isn't with the ai in itself, it is in our understanding of it, and our inexperience of dealing with it.

my 1st day back in game after 2.1 was released, i had 2 very costly visits to the rebuy screen for my trader/mining python. at that point i realised things had changed, so looked through the patch notes, beta threads an on reddit. there were quite a few upset posts and git gud posts.. however, there were also a lot of detailed posts, explaining how the ai were working, what kind of builds they were using (not all of them were using mods incorrectly) and how best to deal with them depending on what you were flying.

im a carebear solo trader, that enjoys the occasional trip to a ring system for some mining. im not all that great at combat.. i have a persistent head tremor, and periodic hand spasms amongst a few other things, so control can sometimes be, well things can get suddenly very interesting around stations. but i am willing to try new things and listen to the advice of others. so i parked up the python.. got myself a DBScout took on board the advice of others, then immediately set off to take part in a Bounty Hunting CG, just normal navs and normal res's.

it is surprising how much you can pick up without even firing a shot off.. didn't even get my weapons out, just scanned npc's and followed anything wanted until they were attacked by the authority vessels, and then i just practiced maneuvering and sticking to their rear arc as they were in combat. after i got a feel for the ship, i would scan and follow till it was attacked, or look for combat already going on, and then wait till shields were down and join in. learnt loads, discovered a great little ship.. you can do anything with it, even dipped my toe in smuggling. and now i am back in my python.. with a little less cargo space than before.. but better shields.. better engines.. and a better idea of what i am doing.

overall i managed to get comfortable with the way things were prior to them removing the mods from npc's , well, excluding rapid fire plasma ofc, no 1 could get used to that lol.. but even with the mods removed, and bugs being patched the ai will still be a challenge, more so for those who levelled pre 2.1 and never really learned much in the way of tactics and maneuvering. im still not great.. never will be lol, but i know when to run and when to fight, and more importantly ..how!

we can continue to blame the game, and try and force frontier to dumb the ai back down and make it like it was.. but that wouldn't be fair to new players, experienced combatant players, or the many in between who have taken the time to learn new skills and adjust to the ai.
 
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Using an Asp to fight a FAS ? Really ? I mean REALLY ?
Why dont you commit virtual Hara-kiri ? its much faster. The Asp is outclassed in every aspect, every.
Learn what fights you can win, and dont expect NPC's to be stupid. WIN-WIN situation. Problem solved.

Cheers Cmdr's
 
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