20 Mission cap is a tad silly.

[EValve]

Oh yeah i forgot about the easy way to getting rich quick,
never liked easy in the first place.

You'd be surprised how bad piracy missions pay in general, especially when you have to conduct
them in high-sec systems.
I often check the board and just go away shrugging and muttering "i do not work for pennies".

It really doesn't make you rich... neutral factions offer barely anything over 200k per mission and that is the 1 % exception. The usual lies more around 50k per mission.
There's absolutely 0 ways to abuse this. It doesn't make you rich, it doesn't rank up 1 faction at an excessive rate, in fact it's quite the opposite.
I take a few missions 2 to 3 for one faction, travel to the next, hand one in, take another 3 etc. Until I'm limited by 20. If I take any other mission such as a Boom delivery mission, then that's one slot I give up for cargo.

Basically 1 Boom delivery mission now equals to 1 mission which offers 6 to 500 tons of cargo. There's no differentiation anymore. A mission = A mission. Be it trading or mining, delivery, assassination it's all equal for some arbitrary reason.

 

[excalibus]

But not a cap of 20 missions per commander.

if your cargo is filled (for example) with accepting only a couple of missions tailored to your ship, then perhaps the 20 cap limit is no longer an issue at all... you could still 'stack' assassination missions / donation missions / fetch missions etc up to the 20... so in that regard it would not be that much of an issue compared to having no cap yeah?

One quick question, you are at a station, I am at the same station, don't we both see the same mission list and if you accept a mission does that mean that I can no longer accept that mission if we are in the same game mode??? Genuinely curious about this as it is not something I have tested having established my home base out on the fringe of the bubble...

 

[Jmanis]

I never have been the mission stacker.
If missions are tailored better i fathom
stacking 20 never is a thing,
unless for donations to further rep.

Between the eight stations for the one faction in the one system I run in, they can offer over 40 missions in total, regardless of "stacking" benefits. Almost always, these are unique occurrances in distinct systems anyway.

One quick question, you are at a station, I am at the same station, don't we both see the same mission list and if you accept a mission does that mean that I can no longer accept that mission??? Genuinely curious about this as it is not something I have tested having established my home base out on the fringe of the bubble...

I have two accounts, and no, different missions get offered to my other account. Procedural generation and all that jazz.

if your cargo is filled (for example) with accepting only a couple of missions tailored to your ship, then perhaps the 20 cap limit is no longer an issue at all... you could still 'stack' assassination missions / donation missions / fetch missions etc up to the 20... so in that regard it would not be that much of an issue compared to having no cap yeah?

Again, 5-12 missions doable by my fitout are available in each of eight stations. This is 40-96 missions.

 

[Mighty Dangerous]

OP I think, is planning ahead, thinking, make efficient use of time and travel.
I don't think he's just stacking and then go deliver them all. New spaceship incoming.

Logic about deliver commodities is sound advice but that's not what I do.
That's too simplistic and time consuming or immersion breaking.
So, we look for other deeper mechanics in the game and OP found some but mission cap is blocking him.
I'm interested in what he got to say because I'm similar in my mission play altho the cap hasn't affected me. I think it's valid balance discussion.

Planning ahead 1 or 2 days of missions, setting up clusters of missions with synchronised timers, deciding missions because of states and influence, will I cause a boom or lockdown, which factions support each other. I could go on, there is a lot to think about and test. That's more an Elite game than picking the highest pay mission and checking a website to see what goods to fill up with.
Using missions to affect my BGS, influence, reputation, allies and events is intelligent but long term game play. You guys thought Robigo was good. I've caused events to happen like this that make Robigo credits look stupid. I know how to switch the events on and off with missions. I don't want a cap to limit it because missions already got a timer.

 

[EValve]

if your cargo is filled (for example) with accepting only a couple of missions tailored to your ship, then perhaps the 20 cap limit is no longer an issue at all... you could still 'stack' assassination missions / donation missions / fetch missions etc up to the 20... so in that regard it would not be that much of an issue compared to having no cap yeah?

One quick question, you are at a station, I am at the same station, don't we both see the same mission list and if you accept a mission does that mean that I can no longer accept that mission if we are in the same game mode??? Genuinely curious about this as it is not something I have tested having established my home base out on the fringe of the bubble...

This isn't even an issue once you're friendly/allied with factions... In regards to delivery missions. It's the neutral/cordial rank that offer 6 to 24 tons of cargo, which multiplied by 20 only covers at the <very> best 480 tons of cargo.

 

[excalibus]

This isn't even an issue once you're friendly/allied with factions... In regards to delivery missions. It's the neutral/cordial rank that offer 6 to 24 tons of cargo, which multiplied by 20 only covers at the <very> best 480 tons of cargo.

so then I guess it gives an incentive to improve your relationship with minor factions... which is never a bad thing

 

[Julio Montega]

Between the eight stations for the one faction in the one system I run in, they can offer over 40 missions in total, regardless of "stacking" benefits. Almost always, these are unique occurrances in distinct systems anyway.

Fair enough yet how about having not only NPCs being persistent but missions aswell?
I always wondered why the faction that gives you the mission was unable to communicate
the missions available at other installments within the same system.

Thus you get a lot of comfort and can take every mission available in the system from every station,
you only have to grab the cargo from the issuing installment and deliver the kill-confirmation
to the right station.

In short:
Dock at a station and see every mission in the system available per faction.

 

[EValve]

so then I guess it gives an incentive to improve your relationship with minor factions... which is never a bad thing

Maybe this analogy will help. If I'm leisurely being the post-man going through the entire country I won't get to build up my relationship with specific towns. I take the mail in one, hop to the next. Deliver whatever's assigned to that town and be on my merry way with their mail.
This means my bag will always be full, until I decide not to take any more mail and finish my round.
Now if I'm limited by some arbitrary reason to only carry 20 letters while my bag can hold a 100, I'm not being very good at my job. Towns will go crazy "but I have my letter I want to send too!", sorry m'am my bag's not full but I can't take your letter.

 

[excalibus]

Maybe this analogy will help. If I'm leisurely being the post-man going through the entire country I won't get to build up my relationship with specific towns. I take the mail in one, hop to the next. Deliver whatever's assigned to that town and be on my merry way with their mail.
This means my bag will always be full, until I decide not to take any more mail and finish my round.
Now if I'm limited by some arbitrary reason to only carry 20 letters while my bag can hold a 100, I'm not being very good at my job. Towns will go crazy "but I have my letter I want to send too!", sorry m'am my bag's not full but I can't take your letter.

In your analogy, it would be more like - the post office will only allow you to carry letters to 20 people but once you show them you are committed to delivering their mail, they will give you enough letters to fill your bag, and you could if you wanted to carry some greeting cards to sell at the next town or carry some letter openers to sell at the next town if you want to be the roaming postie that does not often go back to a place he has already been to...


My own style of mission running is probably more akin to the local postie in that I do missions for my minor faction to affect their standing in a system and in doing so have shown them I am loyal and committed to them so they would fill my hold without hesitation.

My minor factions enemies view me as either do not like me or are ambivalent about me, so they only offer a smattering of missions and none of which would utilise my potential, which is probably a good thing for them considering I tend to take those missions to commit subterfuge

 

[Jmanis]

My own style of mission running is probably more akin to the local postie in that I do missions for my minor faction to affect their standing in a system and in doing so have shown them I am loyal and committed to them so they would fill my hold without hesitation.

And so your analogy when that faction which you're loyal to offers you more than 20 missions, and you can't accept them is..... ? My postie bag holds more than 20 messages...

Because that's my situation.

Again, 8 stations in my system. My faction to which I'm loyal has 40+ missions on offer...

 

[777Driver]

This is the result of paid beta.
Insufficient testing of the over-all changes.

I tested this & reported it as a bug during Beta, support said they will look into it. A few day's later I posted on the forums to confirm if it is supposed to be a feature.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=257192

- So what exactly has paid beta got to do with anything? The only issue I see with Beta is that the forum is not locked to Beta testers only, too many people posting junk when they have nothing to do with testing.

 

[excalibus]

And so your analogy when that faction which you're loyal to offers you more than 20 missions, and you can't accept them is..... ? My postie bag holds more than 20 messages...

Because that's my situation.

Again, 8 stations in my system. My faction to which I'm loyal has 40+ missions on offer...

actually with my own style of mission running, I rarely reach more than 10 - 15 missions spread across about 8 stations / outposts in 4 systems... simply because I select a range of missions for the 'target effect' I want to achieve and then top up with delivery missions for my minor faction to the place where the 'target effect' is going to take place... I do understand your situation with 8 stations in the one system giving you missions...

Fact is, we now have a cap by design on the system... I personally would have exceeded that cap maybe 8 times in over a year of playing, the rest of the time I would have been below that cap, they can (and probably will) rebalance the cap as they get more data in on it... I do understand that having a cap is not an 'ideal' situation but it is the situation at hand my friend and so we have to work within it's constraints...

I guess you could say in my analogy they fill my postie bag with junkmail, letters, parcels and telegrams to 20 people ... instead of just a small handful of letters to those 20 people...

 

[CMDR Ellegon]

Stuff it.

I'm calling it.

Whatever goes on from here is whatever goes on. I'm done.

Congratulations on your sophisticated social skills. /sarcasm

 

[racer1]

Haven't read the whole thread, but the 20 missions cap was in the release note.

I was looking at long range missions from Fehu last night and without the cap you could stack 16 tonne delivery missions paying just less than 6 million each via mode switching netting approaching 300 million in a cutter! Same deal as usual destinations all relatively close to each other.

Note in Fehu all the long range delivery missions I saw were for just less than 6 million irrespective of units for delivery (16-108).

I stacked 5 missions with my 200 tonne cargo python without mode switching. There were plenty of missions left.

I have to say the improvements to the missions on 2.1, although welcome, seem to be mostly buffing the presentation rather than the substance underneath. The smuggling missions now seem very similar to 1.4 behaviour i.e. no fail on scan no chasing by NPC security. I just encountered a bug of "no skimmers at base dest for a kill skimmers mission" which was reported twice in beta and reported fixed. I'm loving 2.1 just not feeling the it's all about the quality and more feeling it's all about the xbox, but maybe I'm just a cynic.

 

[Banana's_Are_Good_For_You]

So, mission timers changed, for example Courier:
Used to be under an hour to 3 hours. Now, they are 24 hour missions like a lot of others.
I believe this was done to allow players of limited time to complete missions.
However, what this thread seems about is just stacking as much as possible and probably not caring if completed or not.
20 is fine when players don't involve themselves in the game and only care for money, something FD have been trying to get players to move away from.
You'll get better missions if you work the game properly, just saying.
I think 20 is way too much anyways.
Missions should involve changing loadouts and doing different things. Something some humans can't compute apparently.
What they are trying to do is involve players in playing the game and not things like farming anything in a one dimensional fashion. This is prolly why it's capped.
Should be capped harder regards mission selection and general mission completion times, there is currently an overflow of certain missions, especially courier missions. Players should have to go fish, have to make a choice what they can and can't do.
Those just looking to just farm credits and not concerning themselves with the game aren't doing it right.

 

[EValve]

In your analogy

Spoiler

, it would be more like - the post office will only allow you to carry letters to 20 people but once you show them you are committed to delivering their mail, they will give you enough letters to fill your bag, and you could if you wanted to carry some greeting cards to sell at the next town or carry some letter openers to sell at the next town if you want to be the roaming postie that does not often go back to a place he has already been to...


My own style of mission running is probably more akin to the local postie in that I do missions for my minor faction to affect their standing in a system and in doing so have shown them I am loyal and committed to them so they would fill my hold without hesitation.

My minor factions enemies view me as either do not like me or are ambivalent about me, so they only offer a smattering of missions and none of which would utilise my potential, which is probably a good thing for them considering I tend to take those missions to commit subterfuge

Indeed I'd understand the allowance if you were dependent of this post office. As in "we don't trust you yet, why don't you just deliver these first". So what does a trucker do to make his trip worth while, he goes out and seeks other small contractors. In other cities, which would be under the directive of a different post-office. Now it just seems I can't be "my own boss".

I tested this & reported

Spoiler

it as a bug during Beta, support said they will look into it. A few day's later I posted on the forums to confirm if it is supposed to be a feature.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=257192

- So what exactly has paid beta got to do with anything? The only issue I see with Beta is that the forum is not locked to Beta testers only, too many people posting junk when they have nothing to do with testing.

Page 3, my last post has the answer to this

So, mission timers changed,

Spoiler

for example Courier:
Used to be under an hour to 3 hours. Now, they are 24 hour missions like a lot of others.
I believe this was done to allow players of limited time to complete missions.
However, what this thread seems about is just stacking as much as possible and probably not caring if completed or not.
20 is fine when players don't involve themselves in the game and only care for money, something FD have been trying to get players to move away from.
You'll get better missions if you work the game properly, just saying.
I think 20 is way too much anyways.
Missions should involve changing loadouts and doing different things. Something some humans can't compute apparently.
What they are trying to do is involve players in playing the game and not things like farming anything in a one dimensional fashion. This is prolly why it's capped.
Should be capped harder regards mission selection and general mission completion times, there is currently an overflow of certain missions, especially courier missions. Players should have to go fish, have to make a choice what they can and can't do.
Those just looking to just farm credits and not concerning themselves with the game aren't doing it right.

I do fully care about the completion of them... It has ( again ) strictly nothing to do with money. How much more can I be involved in the game? I'm blazing my trail through minor factions "hello I'm new here, anything I can do for you?". What happens then is, I am selective of my origin point, which will send me around a cluster of factions I can work on and tip economies over with. By working in all these factions instead of one or two.
You'll get better missions << if you play a certain way >> and work a select faction. My method is just as equally worthy of being entitled properly as is another.
Why would I require to change load-outs if I esteem my load-out to be multi-role and adapted to what I'm doing? That's quite unfair of you to say no? You want to go mining? Oh no, your ship must be equipped with 5 mining lasers, a top tier refinery and maxed out on limpets. Why can't I have one installed, and still be able to deliver cargo at another? Sounds very silly to me as a suggestion sorry.
Those out to make money have as much a legit reason to play their game as someone aiming to tip over a faction. Sorry but now you're just claiming people have to play a certain way, otherwise their play isn't valid.
There's no argument what-so-ever in there at all.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Haven't read the whole thread

Spoiler

, but the 20 missions cap was in the release note.

I was looking at long range missions from Fehu last night and without the cap you could stack 16 tonne delivery missions paying just less than 6 million each via mode switching netting approaching 300 million in a cutter! Same deal as usual destinations all relatively close to each other.

Note in Fehu all the long range delivery missions I saw were for just less than 6 million irrespective of units for delivery (16-108).

I stacked 5 missions with my 200 tonne cargo python without mode switching. There were plenty of missions left.

I have to say the improvements to the missions on 2.1, although welcome, seem to be mostly buffing the presentation rather than the substance underneath. The smuggling missions now seem very similar to 1.4 behaviour i.e. no fail on scan no chasing by NPC security. I just encountered a bug of "no skimmers at base dest for a kill skimmers mission" which was reported twice in beta and reported fixed. I'm loving 2.1 just not feeling the it's all about the quality and more feeling it's all about the xbox, but maybe I'm just a cynic.

So basically, the mission cap doesn't even solve the abusive stacking of missions... I'm not even sure how to react to that.

 

[777Driver]

So, mission timers changed, for example Courier:
Used to be under an hour to 3 hours. Now, they are 24 hour missions like a lot of others.
I believe this was done to allow players of limited time to complete missions.
However, what this thread seems about is just stacking as much as possible and probably not caring if completed or not.
20 is fine when players don't involve themselves in the game and only care for money, something FD have been trying to get players to move away from.
You'll get better missions if you work the game properly, just saying.
I think 20 is way too much anyways.
Missions should involve changing loadouts and doing different things. Something some humans can't compute apparently.
What they are trying to do is involve players in playing the game and not things like farming anything in a one dimensional fashion. This is prolly why it's capped.
Should be capped harder regards mission selection and general mission completion times, there is currently an overflow of certain missions, especially courier missions. Players should have to go fish, have to make a choice what they can and can't do.
Those just looking to just farm credits and not concerning themselves with the game aren't doing it right.

You seem to be missing the point. The devs are trying to encourage varied gameplay yet limiting the players. My mission count can easily exceed 20 now, previously my main criteria for accepting a mission was purely for cash, generally just cargo or smuggling missions. In the past few week or so engineers has encouraged me to go back to other aspects of the game that I enjoy but rarely delve into.

Here are some examples of what is in my missions list.

5 - Mining missions, 6 days to complete and very good engineer rewards, the pay is crap.
3 Base assaults - 4 days to complete, only one mission is for good pay, the rest are giving good engineer rewards.
2 salvage missions - Rubbish pay, good engineer rewards
4 fetch missions - 2 days to complete, average pay - Good rewards and Rep for a faction I am trying to get allied with
3 smuggling missions from Maia - 1 day 15 hours, Picked up whilst out in Maia doing mining for the first 5 missions.

It has nothing to do with farming credits in my case, I have a week's worth of content to keep me busy, however if I come across a batch of quick haulage missions I am locked out of them, why should that be the case just because I have contracts with other mission givers? I have plenty of cargo space to haul the freight required.

 

[Jmanis]

It has nothing to do with farming credits in my case,

Can't rep you again... but everything that you said.

Ironically, the change has everything to do with farming credits, and unreasonably impacts players who are just "playing the game". It's an incredibly dumb change.

 

[Kaliblister]

stacking mission isn't "playing the game" stacking mission for money or for reputation or whatever is exactly the same

 

[Banana's_Are_Good_For_You]

Indeed I'd understand the allowance if you were dependent of this post office. As in "we don't trust you yet, why don't you just deliver these first". So what does a trucker do to make his trip worth while, he goes out and seeks other small contractors. In other cities, which would be under the directive of a different post-office. Now it just seems I can't be "my own boss".



Page 3, my last post has the answer to this



I do fully care about the completion of them... It has ( again ) strictly nothing to do with money. How much more can I be involved in the game? I'm blazing my trail through minor factions "hello I'm new here, anything I can do for you?". What happens then is, I am selective of my origin point, which will send me around a cluster of factions I can work on and tip economies over with. By working in all these factions instead of one or two.
You'll get better missions << if you play a certain way >> and work a select faction. My method is just as equally worthy of being entitled properly as is another.
Why would I require to change load-outs if I esteem my load-out to be multi-role and adapted to what I'm doing? That's quite unfair of you to say no? You want to go mining? Oh no, your ship must be equipped with 5 mining lasers, a top tier refinery and maxed out on limpets. Why can't I have one installed, and still be able to deliver cargo at another? Sounds very silly to me as a suggestion sorry.
Those out to make money have as much a legit reason to play their game as someone aiming to tip over a faction. Sorry but now you're just claiming people have to play a certain way, otherwise their play isn't valid.
There's no argument what-so-ever in there at all.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -



So basically, the mission cap doesn't even solve the abusive stacking of missions... I'm not even sure how to react to that.

The purpose of a multirole ship is that it can do a great many things, yet not at the same time or not as good as dedicated ships and even when maxed to try and compete, not gonna win.
This is why loadouts need changed. I can do a great many more things in an AspX than I can in say a courier and not need to go back to the system where I have stored other ships. I will need a high tech system or at least a good one to switch in and out what I need, depending on what role I choose.
I have no problem with this and multi-role ships can do more than one role but never be a match for dedicated combat builds, so we run. Don't have a problem with that either.
It's about the need to swap ships as opposed to having a ship that can be outfitted to do many roles, hence multirole.
I don't like your assumption that an Asp will just stack mining lasers because it's a miner. That is you trying to make a point that is far from valid because it doesn't take 5 mining lasers to mine anything? Why you would even go down this road is questionable. Your point in that regard is invalid and kinda funny.

I'm just gonna lay this out plain for you.
Farming in this game is not involving yourself in the game or caring about how it works beyond your own credit balance.
You want to farm things for the candy then fair enough but you really aren't doing it right.
You will always be allowed to play that way but I agree with FD that you should not be allowed to just endlessly farm credits.

You seem to be missing the point. The devs are trying to encourage varied gameplay yet limiting the players. My mission count can easily exceed 20 now, previously my main criteria for accepting a mission was purely for cash, generally just cargo or smuggling missions. In the past few week or so engineers has encouraged me to go back to other aspects of the game that I enjoy but rarely delve into.

Here are some examples of what is in my missions list.

5 - Mining missions, 6 days to complete and very good engineer rewards, the pay is crap.
3 Base assaults - 4 days to complete, only one mission is for good pay, the rest are giving good engineer rewards.
2 salvage missions - Rubbish pay, good engineer rewards
4 fetch missions - 2 days to complete, average pay - Good rewards and Rep for a faction I am trying to get allied with
3 smuggling missions from Maia - 1 day 15 hours, Picked up whilst out in Maia doing mining for the first 5 missions.

It has nothing to do with farming credits in my case, I have a week's worth of content to keep me busy, however if I come across a batch of quick haulage missions I am locked out of them, why should that be the case just because I have contracts with other mission givers? I have plenty of cargo space to haul the freight required.

Maybe the problem is there aren't harsh enough penalties for the player, not so much the affects on the BGS, where if you fail then you get held to account. Trolled by badass npc's.
Maybe you should be more selective in your missions and complete them before taking others, than blaming the game when you caused the issue in the first place.
They will need to nerf the bugs first though but for every action there should be an equal and opposite reaction.
They can always change the mission timers which will annoy a few as well.
If the mission timers were a lot shorter we wouldn't even be having this conversation but they're trying to cater for those with limited time. However, you just flipped it on its head.
Which do you prefer regards mission timers?
Old system or new?

They seem opposed to farming so...